Universalism

[Tissue]

We know that it is to be taken litteral because the fouth commandment states that in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sin and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

The fourth commandment references Genesis in exactly the way that one would expect, if it were myth.

The seven day account in genesis is quite literal my friend. It just further goes to show how awesome our God is. In reality He could have made everything in one day, but He choose to do all creation in six and than take a seventhy to rest.

Oh, I don't doubt that God could have done it that way. But just as I see Psalms and recognize it as poetry, I read Genesis 1-4 (and more) and see it as myth.

I'm not, by the way, the only Christian to interpret Genesis in this way.

 

[red77]

REDUCED to beliefs & dogma?
HE USES SCRIPTURE TO TEACH OF HIMSELF so that we
better know who He is, how He works, what He wants
and His ultimate plan - and to give us hope knowing He's returning.

How can you even say such a thing when that is the very
vehicle He uses most to relay Himself in such a detailed
way!
Most of what you do know of God comes right from that
book whether you admit it or not. NOT what He
"whispers in your ear" - which is a pittance compared to
what He shares in scriptures in great detail.

Sadly, you have it backwards, we know more about God
from "dogma" than from what He shares in our minds.
Take away the Bible and see how much you know about
God except for generalized feelings or emotions or
thoughts about people & things....

compared to what we know about subjects like baptism,
church structure, Jesus' ministry on earth, miracles,
etc.

Plus, the word of God is living in that God works THRU IT
directly to change our spirits & teach us things.
It's life giving words to renew us spiritually.
It's not just some book like MOby dick that you grab off
a shelf.

Sorry, I cannot accept that.

"Dogma" isn't the same as hope or belief. It's more about what God is constrained to do in order to tie in with what it "teaches"....

 

[timlamb]

red77;52527908]How am I being so ignorant here? You are the one who equates universal reconciliation to there being no actual point to life on this earth with your argument here, can you not see that? You're practically saying that if everyone is reconciled to God then 'why should you go through tribulation'. Are you any better than those who don't 'choose' your own path? Are all those who don't find the same as you so evil and wicked as to warrant being burned for all eternity? Is that the only point you see in life on this present plane?

If this life is not about our choises, or ambitions and our faith then why are we here. If god is going to take everyone aside and punish them for mistakes until they submit then why put us through all this. What we do here has an eternal purpose, and that is what we learn from scripture.

Tell me how there is any definition of reconcile that means things can be reconciled "away" from God which your doctrine insists upon for eternal LOF to be true...
It's pretty obvious that reconcillation of ALL to God would negate that

My dictionary has four definitions for reconcile. Give it to me in the context of scripture so we can settle this.

 

[timlamb]

heavensprings;52527714]Actually it's not just a verse here and a verse there. It's all the way from Genesis to Revelation. It's everywhere in the stories and parables, and in what the prophets say.

Take the story of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego as an example.. it's a type of the Lake of Fire. The story of Joseph is a story of the elect and of their being priests and kings who will RULE AND REIGN with Christ... rule and reign whom? And ruling and reigning to do what?... to help bring the rest into the Kingdom.

This is lame!!! Read Revelation chapter twenty. All who are dead in Christ will return during the thousand years and rule and reign with Christ.

The parable of the lost coin, lost sheep, lost prodigal son... all show that every single LOST person will be sought after and FOUND. Mankind is lost, every single one.

LAME!! This is about one of HIS own returning. Scripture is clear, not all are His own and of those who are his own not all recieve Him. John's Gospel, chapter one.

It's in Paul's writings, everywhere. We don't count on a few verses here and there... it's in the great themes of the scriptures... and in the Law of Moses. Now that's a good place to study this... The Law of Redemption, the law of Tabernacles, the Law of Ownership, Jubilee.. the struggle for the Birthright, it's in the Judgments of the Divine Law. It's everywhere!

Bogus! You talk about the Law but Uni's are offended when we bring up the law! Nothing in the law reflects universal salvation in the least possible way. Show me, explain yourself. Show scripture, I gotta see this.

This subject is so VAST that to show you what it's all about would take more than a few posts in a forum.

No, there is no where in the Bible that more than two connecting verses can be remotely interpreted to mean universal salvation. Show me one chapter!

PS... to be unorthodox is the harder road. I was orthodox for roughly thirty years... that's easy.

To say "I can do whatever I want and I will be saved anyway", that is the hard narrow road? more Bogusness!

 

[heavensprings]

This is lame!!! Read Revelation chapter twenty. All who are dead in Christ will return during the thousand years and rule and reign with Christ.

LAME!! This is about one of HIS own returning. Scripture is clear, not all are His own and of those who are his own not all recieve Him. John's Gospel, chapter one.

Bogus! You talk about the Law but Uni's are offended when we bring up the law! Nothing in the law reflects universal salvation in the least possible way. Show me, explain yourself. Show scripture, I gotta see this.


No, there is no where in the Bible that more than two connecting verses can be remotely interpreted to mean universal salvation. Show me one chapter!
To say "I can do whatever I want and I will be saved anyway", that is the hard narrow road? more Bogusness!

ROFL!! You're a scream!

Is that all you've got?

I don't think you know your scriptures well at all. And your attitude stinks so much I'd prefer not to bother!

LOL!

 

[timlamb]

ROFL!! You're a scream!

Is that all you've got?

I don't think you know your scriptures well at all. And your attitude stinks so much I'd prefer not to bother!

LOL!

So you can't back it up, huh

No problem, . Peddle your dibble to someone else

 

[heavensprings]

So you can't back it up, huh

No problem, . Peddle your dibble to someone else

Haha! I was waiting for that! School yard tactics.

 

[Nadiine]

So you can't back it up, huh

No problem, . Peddle your dibble to someone else

what you see here AGAIN is more READ IN theology to create
doctrine that doesn't exist.

same old thing

 

[preistsplace]

If this life is not about our choises, or ambitions and our faith then why are we here. If god is going to take everyone aside and punish them for mistakes until they submit then why put us through all this. What we do here has an eternal purpose, and that is what we learn from scripture.

Considering that mankind is a creature deeply flawed by the presence of sin
I don't beleive that we can say we are here for our ambitions or to make decisions especially not when in quite a few place we are told that we cannot come to the Father unless he call us. I think that we are here to learn, that we will be held responsible for our ambitions,choices and our faith.


My dictionary has four definitions for reconcile. Give it to me in the context of scripture so we can settle this.

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
1Ti 2:7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.
Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

 

[preistsplace]

And Spirit and the Word are both important. You need one to fully experience the other.

 

[heavensprings]

what you see here AGAIN is more READ IN theology to create
doctrine that doesn't exist.

same old thing

And these types of comments are very tiresome too...

Fact is, not one of you who believe in endless torment can come up with ONE good scriptural argument to show us why we should not believe in such a loving and merciful God who will eventually save all. All I ever hear is how we are believing a heretical lie, that we don't know the scriptures, that we are too emotional, that we've taken the easy path... ad nauseum.

Also, the fact is, the doctrine does exist whether you like it or not.

 

[Hentenza]

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
1Ti 2:7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.
Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

The verses you quote distinctively show the potentiality of the atonement but not the actuality. Jesus substitutionary atonement was indeed for the sins of all potentially where belief is the actualization condition. You can not ignore the many, many verses that make belief a condition of salvation. Nowhere in scripture does it say that all will actually receive the atonement unconditionally.

 

[preistsplace]

Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
the judgment was death can you name one man on whom the judgment did not come without it being an act of God?and did we have a choice about this judgment?I think not!So then we see the righteousness coming upon all men unto justification of life we are called to accept it at less than face value IE on those that beleive or on some.
1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
Here it states very clearly that he is the Savior of all men and while many attempts have been made from the partialist camp to explain this away all of the attempts fall short. God is( notice it does not say potentially is)the savior of all men

 

[preistsplace]

The verses you quote distinctively show the potentiality of the atonement but not the actuality. Jesus substitutionary atonement was indeed for the sins of all potentially where belief is the actualization condition. You can not ignore the many, many verses that make belief a condition of salvation. Nowhere in scripture does it say that all will actually receive the atonement unconditionally.

We do not ignore those verses we simply state that all will eventually believe.
And I do beleive that some recieve it in a manner that could be considered conditional I E they accept after being punished for their sins for a finite amount of time.

 

[LightSeaker]

what you see here AGAIN is more READ IN theology to create
doctrine that doesn't exist.

same old thing

Point of fact...Jesus Christ is NOT theology OR doctrine. He is THE living God. He's LIFE itself.

.

 

[LightSeaker]

And these types of comments are very tiresome too...

Agreed.

.

 

[LightSeaker]

Understanding that some here don't approve and that they will degrade what I'm about to write... but I still see God as an activity with in each and every Human Soul, and I will continue to honor them as such.

.

 

[timlamb]

And these types of comments are very tiresome too...

Fact is, not one of you who believe in endless torment can come up with ONE good scriptural argument to show us why we should not believe in such a loving and merciful God who will eventually save all. All I ever hear is how we are believing a heretical lie, that we don't know the scriptures, that we are too emotional, that we've taken the easy path... ad nauseum.

Also, the fact is, the doctrine does exist whether you like it or not.

Here is conclusive truth that not all get eternal life. Some, I won't argue the number but scripture says it is high, will suffer the second death which is the Lake of Fire and will NOT recieve life. John here is witnessing ALL things being made new because the old is passed away, yet still some don't get life.
Revelation 21:1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."

5He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."
6He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." 9One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, "Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb." 10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.

 

[timlamb]

Understanding that some here don't approve and that they will degrade what I'm about to write... but I still see God as an activity with in each and every Human Soul, and I will continue to honor them as such.

.

This gets more bizarre all the time:o

 

[LightSeaker]

This gets more bizarre all the time:o

Personally, I don't think that seeing each soul as an activity of God is bizaare at all. It's all part of having God as ones reality in life.

Maybe God isn't your reality?!? <Just wondering>


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