Universalism

[Nadiine]

Phillipians 2: "9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."


Notice the verse says "should" bow and "should" confess. In context paul is saying that the Father gave Jesus the name that the living and the dead SHOULD bow to, he is pointing out that though Jesus was humble, He was intended to be worshipped. But not everyone will do it.
You're preaching it here brother!

amen,
except I believe they all will bow & admit who God is. But
as I had read back in ancient days, after a king won a battle,
they'de force the people they conquered to bow to the king.

But aside from that, what's being missed is that bowing doesn't
mean you are saved. Satan agrees who God is & if God forced
him & the demons to, they WOULD bow & worship against their
will.

Also, where are they bowing from?
Philippians 2:10
so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW,
of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

It saying, no matter where anyone is at, they will bow.
It in no way suggests they all love God or have repented
or will repent.
What's happening is, they're reading in their own doctrine
into verses when it doesn't fit elsewhere.

 

[Zaac]

amen,
except I believe they all will bow & admit who God is. But
as I had read back in ancient days, after a king won a battle,
they'de force the people they conquered to bow to the king.

But aside from that, what's being missed is that bowing doesn't
mean you are saved. Satan agrees who God is & if God forced
him & the demons to, they WOULD bow & worship against their
will.

Also, where are they bowing from?
Philippians 2:10
so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW,
of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

It saying, no matter where anyone is at, they will bow.
It in no way suggests they all love God or have repented
or will repent.
What's happening is, they're reading in their own doctrine
into verses when it doesn't fit elsewhere.

I can't believe how much folks are stretching Scripture to make this lie into the truth. I can't remember a time in my life where I have ever heard anyone say that because every knee shall bow, that it points to all being saved.

Just WOW!

I'm just flabberghasted and in awe that Christians will even try to teach something like that in order to push universal salvation.

 

[BlackJack77]

Dear Zaac,

It's amazing but not unexpected, for it is written:

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 2 Timothy 4:3-4


The amplified version expounds the verses this way:
For the time is coming when [people] will not tolerate (endure) sound and wholesome instruction, but, having ears itching [for something pleasing and gratifying], they will gather to themselves one teacher after another to a considerable number, chosen to satisfy their own liking and to foster the errors they hold, And will turn aside from hearing the truth and wander off into myths and man-made fictions.


This thread, (as well as others in this forum), is a clear example of the prophesy of these Scriptures being fulfilled.


Sincerely in Christ,
Jack

I can't believe how much folks are stretching Scripture to make this lie into the truth. I can't remember a time in my life where I have ever heard anyone say that because every knee shall bow, that it points to all being saved.

Just WOW!

I'm just flabberghasted and in awe that Christians will even try to teach something like that in order to push universal salvation.

 

[Zaac]

Dear Zaac,

It's amazing but not unexpected, for it is written:

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 2 Timothy 4:3-4


The amplified version expounds the verses this way:
For the time is coming when [people] will not tolerate (endure) sound and wholesome instruction, but, having ears itching [for something pleasing and gratifying], they will gather to themselves one teacher after another to a considerable number, chosen to satisfy their own liking and to foster the errors they hold, And will turn aside from hearing the truth and wander off into myths and man-made fictions.


This thread, (as well as others in this forum), is a clear example of the prophesy of these Scriptures being fulfilled.


Sincerely in Christ,
Jack

So, so true Jack. Just another sign that Jesus Christ is coming back SOON!

 

[Rajni]

The following is an excerpt from http://http://www.tentmaker.org/books/EarlyChristianView.html
At least some of you who are reading this believe that what I am writing is true. I am going to list scores of Scriptures that will confirm what the early Christians believed and lived. There are some who will clearly see this wonderful truth throughout the entire Bible--but that is no enough. Knowledge in the head will never bring forth Life. This Truth has to be buried deep in the heart and the Spirit of our Father has to nurture It to bring forth the fruit of the Spirit. Those of you who now see this Truth, I beg you to ask your Father to plant It in your heart--that He would water and care for It. This Truth planted in the mind will only bring forth dogma and death. The Father seeks those who will worship Him in Spirit and Truth, not dogma and death. It is only then that you will know why you were created. It is only then that your knee will bend to your Lord to His glory and honor. It is only then that your heart can truly rejoice and praise the Creator, your Father.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1) 1Tim 2:4 God will have all to be saved. (KJV) Can His will be thwarted?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2) 1Tim 2:4 God desires all to come to the knowledge of truth Will His desire come to pass?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]3) 1Tim 2:6 Salvation of all is testified in due time Are we judging God before due time?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]4) Jn 12:47 Jesus came to save all Will He succeed?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]5) Eph 1:11 God works all after the counsel of His will Can your will overcome His?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]6) Jn 4:42 Jesus is Savior of the world Can He be Savior of all without saving all?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]7) 1Jn 4:14 Jesus is Savior of the world Why don’t we believe it?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]8) Jn 12:32 Jesus will draw all mankind unto Himself To roast or to love?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]9) Col 1:16 By Him all were created Will He lose a part of His creation?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]10) Rm 5:15-21 In Adam all condemned, in Christ all live The same all?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]11) 1Cor 15:22 In Adam all die, in Christ all live Again, the same all?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]12) Eph 1:10 All come into Him at the fulness of times Are you getting tired of seeing the word, all?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]13) Phl 2:9-11 Every tongue shall confess Jesus is Lord Will the Holy Spirit be given to everyone?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]14) 1 Cor 12:3 Cannot confess except by Holy Spirit See what I mean?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]15) Rm 11:26 All Israel will be saved But most Jews don’t believe yet![/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]16) Acts 3:20,21 Restitution of all How plain can you get?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]17) Luke 2:10 Jesus will be joy to all people Is there joy is "hell"?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]18) Heb 8:11,12 All will know God How long, O Lord?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]19) Eph 2:7 His grace shown in the ages to come Have we judged Him before the time?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]20) Titus 2:11 Grace has appeared to all Experientially or prophetically?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]21) Rm 8:19-21 Creation set at liberty How much of creation?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]22) Col 1:20 All reconciled unto God There’s that word "all" again.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]23) 1Cor 4:5 All will have praise of God What for?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]24) Jms 5:11 End of the Lord is full of mercy Is "hell" mercy?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]25) Rev 15:4 All nations worship when God’s judgments are seen Could His judgment be mercy?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]26) Rm 11:32 All subject to unbelief, mercy on all All?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]27) Rm 11:36 All out of, through, and into Him All into Him?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]28) Eph 4:10 Jesus will fill all things Including "hell?"[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]29) Rev 5:13 All creation seen praising God Including Satan?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]30) 1Cor 15:28 God will be all in all What does that mean?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]31) Rev 21:4,5 No more tears, all things made new "All" made new?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]32) Jn 5:25 All dead who hear will live How many will hear?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]33) Jn 5:28 All in the grave will hear & come forth How will the "righteous" judge?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]34) 1 Cor 3:15 All saved, so as by fire How can fire save you?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]35) Mk 9:49 Everyone shall be salted with fire Including you?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]36) Rm 11:15 Reconciliation of the world Will fire save the world instead of destroy it?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]37) 2Cor 5:15 Jesus died for all Did He die in vain?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]38) Jn 8:29 Jesus always does what pleases His Father What pleases the Father? (1Tim 2:4)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]39) Heb 1:2 Jesus is Heir of all things Does "things" include people?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]40) Jn 17:2 Jesus gives eternal life to all that His Father gave Him How many did the Father give Him?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]41) Jn 3:35 The Father gave Him all things (Repeated for emphasis) Study the word "things" in the Greek.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]42) 1 Tim 4:9-11 Jesus is Savior of all! Jesus is Savior of all! Can’t seem to get away from that word "all."[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]43) Heb. 7:25 Jesus is able to save to the uttermost How far is "uttermost?"[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]44) 1Cor 15:26 Last enemy, death, will be destroyed Including "lake of fire" which is "second death?"[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]45) Is 46:10 God will do all His pleasure Does Old Testament agree with the New?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]46) Gen 12:3 All families of the earth will be blessed Here comes that word "all" again.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]47) Dan 4:35 God’s will done in heaven and earth What can defeat His will?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]48) Ps 66:3,4 Enemies will submit to God Can any stay rebellious in "hell?"[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]49) Ps 90:3 God turns man to destruction, then says return How can one return from "destruction?"[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]50) Is 25:7 Will destroy veil spread over all nations All nations?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]51) Deut 32:39 He kills and makes alive Kills to bring life?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]52) Ps 33:15 God fashions all hearts "All" hearts, including men like "Hitler?"[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]53) Prv 16:9 Man devises, God directs his steps What about "free will?"[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]54) Prv 19:21 Man devises, but God’s counsel stands So much for "free will."[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]55) La 3:31,32 God will not cast off forever Why does He cast off in the first place? (1 Cor 11)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]56) Is 2:2 All nations shall flow to the Lord’s house "All" nations?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]57) Ps 86:9 All nations will worship Him "All" nations![/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]58) Is 45:23 All descendants of Israel justified Including the wicked ones?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]59) Ps 138:4 All kings will praise God Are you catching on?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]60) Ps 65:2-4 All flesh will come to God That sounds wondrous.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]61) Ps 72:18 God only does wondrous things I wish we would believe that.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]62) Is 19:14,15 Egypt & Assyria will be restored Really?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]63) Ezk 16:55 Sodom will be restored to former estate Sounds impossible.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]64) Jer 32:17 Nothing is too difficult for Him Nothing? No, nothing![/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]65) Ps 22:27 All ends of the earth will turn to Him For what purpose?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]66) Ps 22:27 All families will worship before Him Praise His name![/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]67) Ps 145:9 He is good to all Including your worst enemies.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]68) Ps 145:9 His mercies are over all his works Let’s start believing that.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]69) Ps 145:14 He raises all who fall Who hasn’t fallen in sin?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]70) Ps 145:10 All His works will praise Him For "eternal torment?"[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]71) Is 25:6 Lord makes a feast for all people And you are invited.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]72) Jer 32:35 Never entered His mind to eternally torture his children with fire Came from man’s mind.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]73) Jn 6:44 No one can come to Him unless He draws them You can’t "chose" to follow Him.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]74) Jn 12:32 I will draw all mankind unto Myself Amen!!![/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]75) Ps 135:6 God does what pleases Him. If it pleases Him to save all that He might be in all, are you upset?[/FONT]

Amen!
(I'm gone only four days and wow this thread is hoppin'! )




.

.

 

[Rajni]

You do realize that you just dismissed 75 verses alluding to the natural of universal salvation as hyperbole, while most of Christianity condemns homosexuals on the basis of less than a dozen verses? That seems like a major-league cop-out. Or, perhaps, a strike-out.

Good point.




.

 

[Rajni]

Of course, the counter-argument would be that God has too much respect for our free will to save us without our consent, but this argument (reiterated by many Christians without a second thought) seems like lunacy when actually considered.

There is a certain imbalance to the idea that God would preserve our
temporal "free will" at the expense of our eternal well-being.



.

 

[Rajni]

Right on ....Man there was a long time when I could not even concieve of becoming a dad because the world is already messed up enough and when you add to that not the possibility but the certainty that most of all humanity that has ever lived will end up in the fires of hell for time without end then whats the point of risking bringing that kind of suffering on ANY OTHER BEING. Also makes us rethink "be fruitful and multiply, when according to the "orthodox " veiw almost all of mankind will suffer eternally.......

That's for sure.

I think this concern is behind the development of the "age of
accountability" doctrine, though even that raises some serious
questions...



.

 

[timlamb]

There is a certain imbalance to the idea that God would preserve our
temporal "free will" at the expense of our eternal well-being.



.

What makes you think "Free Will" is temporal? Scripture tells us even in the worst times men shake their fists at God, the believe, they hate Him.

 

[Rajni]

Phillipians 2: "9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."


Notice the verse says "should" bow and "should" confess. In context paul is saying that the Father gave Jesus the name that the living and the dead SHOULD bow to, he is pointing out that though Jesus was humble, He was intended to be worshipped. But not everyone will do it.

I looked this verse up in the lexicon and there is no Greek
equivalent for the word "should" in the verse.

That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow
​

If you mouse over the "should bow", you'll see that they are run
together, and the only word between the two that has a Greek
equivalent is the word "bow". This would suggest that it is saying
that "at the name of Jesus every knee bow". This is why such
translations as the New American Standard more accurately reflect
the sense of the verse by saying "at the name of Jesus every knee
will bow..."

 

[Rajni]

What makes you think "Free Will" is temporal? Scripture tells us even in the worst times men shake their fists at God, the believe, they hate Him.

Could you point me to the verses that indicate "free will" (so-called)
goes on endlessly in spite of God's power, might, will, and
transformative grace? Thanks in advance!




.

 

[Zaac]

Again, yall are making God out to be a buffoon. God has not been calling mankind to repentance for the last 6000 years just to turn around and say it really didn't matter if you were forgiven of your sins by way of the blood of Jesus.

If any iota of universalism is truth, then Jesus wasted His time dying on that Cross.

I for one will continue to teach the truth of His word and that He did not waste His time and that all men must proceed through Him for salvation or their eternity will be the Lake of Fire.

 

[Nadiine]

I can't believe how much folks are stretching Scripture to make this lie into the truth. I can't remember a time in my life where I have ever heard anyone say that because every knee shall bow, that it points to all being saved.

Just WOW!

I'm just flabberghasted and in awe that Christians will even try to teach something like that in order to push universal salvation.

Ya, at times I can't believe it either - but then prophecy tells me
that's exactly what we'll see like never before in the times before
Christ's return.

The deception is just outrageous anymore - and all of it tends to do
one thing - either restrict people to intense legalism and rigid rule of
works based effort, or extreme worldliness to the point where they
just claim "God exists" & that gets them "saved" while they live
like the lost world.

It's either extreme. And Universalism allows people to ignore &
reject God all their life, die, SEE GOD (ie. no more faith is involved,
they have proof positive), THEN see the punishment in store for
them & hurry up & "repent".

Only the thing is, that isn't true repentance and it certainly isnt'
salvation by FAITH when God's wrathful hand is pointing at them
in judgment!
I'd "repent" too! lol

Judgment is for what you did and who you rejected in your God-
given life. I agree, Universalism is a mockery of God's grace and
calling to repentance when you don't actually need to down here
when you could of had the "best of both worlds" -
live however you want without suffering, then get heaven later.

What a gig!
Where do I sign up? (oh wait, sorry, I don't have to sign up,
it's just there for me no matter what). cheers!


.

 

[preistsplace]

Again, yall are making God out to be a buffoon. God has not been calling mankind to repentance for the last 6000 years just to turn around and say it really didn't matter if you were forgiven of your sins by way of the blood of Jesus.

If any iota of universalism is truth, then Jesus wasted His time dying on that Cross.

I for one will continue to teach the truth of His word and that He did not waste His time and that all men must proceed through Him for salvation or their eternity will be the Lake of Fire.

So then what about all the people that died in various parts of the world before they could hear the Gospel and accept Christ, Are they in hell just because they didnt hear,and even if they lived decent lives. The truth you teach has driven some good people insane. And as far as what you are saying about Jesus wasting his time...Well you have completely missed the point ...The point is Jesus came and gave his life to save The World, If he had not have Given his life we would still be under the law and every one would still be guilty.....The only thing we universalists are guilty of is seeing the absolute and glorious victory of Christ. We dare to believe that God Loves and cares about all of his creation and is willing toi save those that are still lost .Your argument there is like saying that because christ Gave HIs blood on the Cross that Christians under Grace have an unlimited license to sin, which is wholly untrue.All men must proceed through Christ to salvation and in God's due time all will accept it........

 

[Jase]

While I wouldn't necessarily call myself a universalist, I find it funny that so many Christians promote the fire and brimstone hell, when it doesn't even exist in the Bible. Never underestimate the power of conversion through threat of eternal torture from a loving God.

 

[preistsplace]

Ya, at times I can't believe it either - but then prophecy tells me
that's exactly what we'll see like never before in the times before
Christ's return.

It is interesting to note that on Many occasions Israel thought that they were above every one else and God Brought them low.

The deception is just outrageous anymore - and all of it tends to do
one thing - either restrict people to intense legalism and rigid rule of
works based effort, or extreme worldliness to the point where they
just claim "God exists" & that gets them "saved" while they live
like the lost world.

I have no Idea of what religious belief you are speaking No one is saying that you just "get saved" without accepting Christ in an honest and true fashion.

It's either extreme. And Universalism allows people to ignore &
reject God all their life, die, SEE GOD (ie. no more faith is involved,
they have proof positive), THEN see the punishment in store for
them & hurry up & "repent".

Mat 18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
Mat 18:22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
Mat 18:23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
Mat 18:24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
Mat 18:25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
Mat 18:26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
Mat 18:27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
Mat 18:28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
Mat 18:29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
Mat 18:30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
Mat 18:31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
Mat 18:32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
Mat 18:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
You have to pay all that is due,but the very fact that it says until here seems to Indicate that it is not INfinite

Only the thing is, that isn't true repentance and it certainly isnt'
salvation by FAITH when God's wrathful hand is pointing at them
in judgment!
I'd "repent" too! lol

And it sounds here like you are rather "proud" of yourself for having found and accepted Christ....Remember God is no respector of persons

Judgment is for what you did and who you rejected in your God-
given life.

Here we also agree, we just disagree on the length of punishment

I agree, Universalism is a mockery of God's grace

I suppose you say that because we believe that his "mercy endures forever", and that "the Lord does not cast off forever",you say we are mocking Gods Grace

and
calling to repentance when you don't actually need to down here
when you could of had the "best of both worlds" -
live however you want without suffering, then get heaven later.

The best of both worlds there is nothing good about living in sin, I would argue here that those that are in sin and have not yet Found the Lord are not TRULY happy in their state. I would also say that you might not escape the suffering just that the suffering is not eternal

What a gig!
Where do I sign up? (oh wait, sorry, I don't have to sign up,
it's just there for me no matter what). cheers!


.

Strain out a gnat and swallow a camel

 

[preistsplace]

While I wouldn't necessarily call myself a universalist, I find it funny that so many Christians promote the fire and brimstone hell, when it doesn't even exist in the Bible. Never underestimate the power of conversion through threat of eternal torture from a loving God.

too true in so many cases The orthodox veiw has taken passages that obviously involve a Great deal of symbolism and used them, in the literal sense to promote eternal Hell

 

[nhisname]

Universal Reconciliation, as I understand it, still requires the sacrifice of Jesus for all to be saved.

Repentence of sin plays a big part too.

 

[Zaac]

So then what about all the people that died in various parts of the world before they could hear the Gospel and accept Christ, Are they in hell just because they didnt hear,and even if they lived decent lives.

First, God says that NO ONE has an excuse whether you have heard or not.
20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. Romans 1:20

Second, where does this notion come from that any level of decency lived by sinful man is good enough for a PERFECT, HOLY God?

The truth you teach has driven some good people insane.

And here is part of the problem. People who think they are already good don't need a Savior. That's one of the primary problems with universalism.

And as far as what you are saying about Jesus wasting his time...Well you have completely missed the point ...The point is Jesus came and gave his life to save The World, If he had not have Given his life we would still be under the law and every one would still be guilty.....

And you're missing the point of the Cross. The very first thing Jesus said after being baptized was repent. He commissioned us to go and tell the world to do the same while telling them of His Gospel.

If you haven't accepted Him as Lord and Savior, you are still guilty. I mean seriously, yall would have to throw out the entire New Testament to make universalism true. There would have been no need for the disciples, no need for Paul preaching to the Gentiles, no need for missionaries, no need for the martyrs, none of it if everyone is immediately saved because of what Christ did on the Cross.

JUST WOW! I can't even believe that there is a group of people putting this stumbling block in front of a lost world.

The only thing we universalists are guilty of is seeing the absolute and glorious victory of Christ. We dare to believe that God Loves and cares about all of his creation and is willing toi save those that are still lost .

That doesn't even make any sense. Do you hear what you're saying? If the victory of Christ was absolute and covered everyone without folks having to accept Him as Lord and Savior as you are implying, why would there be a need to still save lost people? by what you're saying, there are no more lost people.

I have heard some crazy stuff but this ine takes the cake.

Your argument there is like saying that because christ Gave HIs blood on the Cross that Christians under Grace have an unlimited license to sin, which is wholly untrue.

Who said anything near that?

All men must proceed through Christ to salvation and in God's due time all will accept it........

Just doesn't mesh with Biblical truth. That's why God says what He does about false teachers and their doctrine in the end of days.

 

[preistsplace]

Isa 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
He will save all and it is stated plainly