Universalism

[LittleLambofJesus]

You mean chronos aiōnios? Probably means since the world began when used together

That word is not mentioned in that particular verse.

It is used in Matt 24:21 though

Daniel 12:1 And in that time, Miyka'el shall standup, the Chief, the Great, the One-standing over sons of people of thee.
And a time of tribulation becomes, which not occurred from to become of a Nation/01471 gowy, until the time, that.

Matt 24:21 "For then shall be tribulation/qliyiV <2347> Great, the such as not has become from beginning of World/kosmou <2889> til of the now, neither not no may be becoming

 

[LJSGM]

That word is not mentioned in that particular verse.

2Ti 1:9Who 3588 hath saved 4982 us 2248, and 2532 called 2564 [us] with an holy 40 calling 2821, not 3756 according to 2596 our 2257 works 2041, but 235 according to 2596 his own 2398 purpose 4286 and 2532 grace 5485, which 3588 was given 1325 us 2254 in 1722 Christ 5547 Jesus 2424 before 4253 the world began 5550 166,
Tts 1:2In 1909 hope 1680 of eternal 166 life 2222, which 3739 God 2316, that cannot lie 893, promised 1861 before 4253 the world 166 began 5550


Rom 16:25Now 1161 to him that is of power 1410 to stablish 4741 you 5209 according 2596 to my 3450 gospel 2098, and 2532 the preaching 2782 of Jesus 2424 Christ 5547, according 2596 to the revelation 602 of the mystery 3466, which was kept secret 4601 since the world began 5550 166


chronos ai&#333;nios is used in all of these verse, not just aionios, which means that when used together they mean probably do mean "when the world began"

It is used in Matt 24:21 though


Matt 24:21 "For then shall be tribulation/qliyiV <2347> Great, the such as not has become from beginning of World/kosmou <2889> til of the now, neither not no may be becoming

Mat 24:21For 1063 then 5119 shall be 2071 great 3173 tribulation 2347, such as 3634 was 1096 not 3756 since 575 the beginning 746 of the world 2889 to this 2193 time 3568, no 3761, nor ever 3364 shall be 1096

Yes, languages can have several ways of expressing the same thing. One needs to prove that it doesn't mean what it says it means not just by presenting another word that could mean the same thing.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=2Ti&c=1&v=9&t=KJV#9

2Ti 1:9Who 3588 hath saved 4982 us 2248, and 2532 called 2564 [us] with an holy 40 calling 2821, not 3756 according to 2596 our 2257 works 2041, but 235 according to 2596 his own 2398 purpose 4286 and 2532 grace 5485, which 3588 was given 1325 us 2254 in 1722 Christ 5547 Jesus 2424 before 4253 the world began 5550166,
Tts 1:2In 1909 hope 1680 of eternal 166 life 2222, which 3739 God 2316, that cannot lie 893, promised 1861 before 4253 the world 166 began 5550

Hi. That word is not the word used for world, just as it is not used for world in Matt 24:3.

And one reason I avoid the KJperV ehehe

Matthew 24:3 Of sitting yet of Him upon the Mount of the Olives toward-came to Him the Disciples according to own saying "be telling to us when? shall these-things be and what? the Sign of the Thy ParousiaV <3952> and the together-Finish/sun-teleiaV <4930> of the Age/aiwnoV <165>" [1 Corin 15:23,24]

Search for 'Genesis 1:1' in the version

KJV) Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what [shall be] the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

NKJV) Matthew 24:3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what [will be] the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the Age?"

 

[A New Dawn]

It could be because those who embrace UR have a bit more compassion for thier fellow man and see this trait in one another.

LOL. And you know this because of some post on some discussion board.

 

[LJSGM]

Hi. That word is not the word used for world, just as it is not used for world in Matt 24:3.

And one reason I avoid the KJperV ehehe

It doesn't have to have the word "world" in it. The only thing that matters is what it meant to those people that spoke the language in that time. The translaters believe it means to those that spoke the language "when the world began" that is chronos ai&#333;nios together.

Have you studied languages before?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

It doesn't have to have the word "world" in it. The only thing that matters is what it meant to those people that spoke the language in that time. The translaters believe it means to those that spoke the language "when the world began" that is chronos ai&#333;nios together.

Have you studied languages before?

Yes, I have been studying the Greek and Hebrew for over 5 yrs now [though I can't speak a lick of either of them ehehe], and in fact spent about a year translating the Jewish/Hebrew book of Revelation from the greek texts.

What took so long was I had to first harmonize the Greek texts before I could even start translating it because of all the Variances in them. An example of my translation of Chapt 1 of that book can be found here:

Christian Forums - View Single Post - Revelation Chapter 1 Verses
Revelation Chapter 1 Verses

I am now working on the book of Romans using the same method as I did with Revelation, of which I have a thread here:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7364825/
Book of Romans verse by verse study

 

[LJSGM]

Yes, I have been studying the Greek and Hebrew for over 5 yrs now [though I can't speak a lick of either of them ehehe], and in fact spent about a year translating the Jewish/Hebrew book of Revelation from the greek texts.

What took so long was I had to first harmonize the Greek texts before I could even start translating it because of all the Variances in them. An example of my translation of Chapt 1 of that book can be found here:

Christian Forums - View Single Post - Revelation Chapter 1 Verses
Revelation Chapter 1 Verses

I am now working on the book of Romans using the same method as I did with Revelation, of which I have a thread here:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7364825/
Book of Romans verse by verse study

I'm not meaning one language, but have you studied linguistics?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I'm not meaning one language, but have you studied linguistics?

Not that I know of.

Can you give me an example of a few bible verses and how linguistics is applied to them?
I try to use the Holy Spirit as much as possible to help with the Bible..... Thanks

Linguistics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Linguistics is the scientific[1][2] study of natural language.[3][4] Linguistics encompasses a number of sub-fields.
An important topical division is between the study of language structure (grammar) and the study of meaning (semantics). Grammar encompasses morphology (the formation and composition of words), syntax (the rules that determine how words combine into phrases and sentences) and phonology (the study of sound systems and abstract sound units). Phonetics is a related branch of linguistics concerned with the actual properties of speech sounds (phones), non-speech sounds, and how they are produced and perceived.

 

[Soul Searcher]

LOL. And you know this because of some post on some discussion board.

What part did you not understand. I said it could be because... and no not because of a post of a discussion board but from years of experience.

 

[LJSGM]

Not that I know of.

Can you give me an example of a few bible verses and how linguistics is applied to them?
I try to use the Holy Spirit as much as possible to help with the Bible..... Thanks

Linguistics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Linguistics is the scientific[1][2] study of natural language.[3][4] Linguistics encompasses a number of sub-fields.
An important topical division is between the study of language structure (grammar) and the study of meaning (semantics). Grammar encompasses morphology (the formation and composition of words), syntax (the rules that determine how words combine into phrases and sentences) and phonology (the study of sound systems and abstract sound units). Phonetics is a related branch of linguistics concerned with the actual properties of speech sounds (phones), non-speech sounds, and how they are produced and perceived.

Well, it really has to do with translating words from one language to another. It's especially hard when it involves a large amount of time since the language was written and that is because languages evolve over time, words change in meaning. The definition of a word is solely based on what the speakers of that language know it to mean. The only way to have any clue as to what a word means is to compare them in usage with other writings from that time period.

For an example the word cool evolved over time to include the definition of something that is hip, whereas, years ago it would have only ment slightly cold. This is why there are so many languages. English and German used to be the same language with the same speaker population once upon a time until the population of speakers separated into two and used the words in different ways and the language evolved into two different languages. It is considered a different language when a native speaker can no longer understand the language coming from the other population. It's a different dialect when they can understand but have a different accent and a few different meanings to words. That is why it is probably is not extremely helpful to learn modern greek in order to translate kione greek. The only reason we know how to understand the KJV is through reading it, over time our brains learn meanings to words through comparing them to the context of the sentence, just as children learn how to speak. All languages have several words that mean the same thing. So, therefore one can't point to a word and say that it can't mean that because there is already a word for it that they can use.

But I'm sure you already knew all of this.

 

[Soul Searcher]

Another thing that we must always remember is that humans have a tendency to exagerate when trying to get a point across. From what I have heard this may have been even more common back when the bible was written than it is today. This is seldom taken into consideration though when interpreting the bible.

Take the verse I mentioned earlier in Revelation for example where John saw the smoke of thier torment going up forever and ever? What should we get from this? Is forever and ever even a valid time?

We know that the vision did not last forever so this can not be meant literally. Was he trying to say there was a lot of smoke or that it extended as far as he could see and beyond [e.g. forever in a different sense] That is must seem like forever to those being tormented? It actually could mean several different things but the normal interpretation of this being proof of never ending torment in the lake of fire seems to fall short of the mark to say the least.

 

[timlamb]

Another thing that we must always remember is that humans have a tendency to exagerate when trying to get a point across. From what I have heard this may have been even more common back when the bible was written than it is today. This is seldom taken into consideration though when interpreting the bible.

Take the verse I mentioned earlier in Revelation for example where John saw the smoke of thier torment going up forever and ever? What should we get from this? Is forever and ever even a valid time?

We know that the vision did not last forever so this can not be meant literally. Was he trying to say there was a lot of smoke or that it extended as far as he could see and beyond [e.g. forever in a different sense] That is must seem like forever to those being tormented? It actually could mean several different things but the normal interpretation of this being proof of never ending torment in the lake of fire seems to fall short of the mark to say the least.

Yep there you go, I bet that'll work! The bible was written by a bunch of guys with over active imaginations and especially in Jesus day people really streached a story, so WHY BELIEVE ANY OF IT, RIGHT?

The udder foolishness one will go to to..how far will you go to make the bible trash; and unbelievable fairy tale?

God means what He says and you will have alot to answer to on judgment day.

Fools!

 

[preistsplace]

Yep there you go, I bet that'll work! The bible was written by a bunch of guys with over active imaginations and especially in Jesus day people really streached a story, so WHY BELIEVE ANY OF IT, RIGHT?

The udder foolishness one will go to to..how far will you go to make the bible trash; and unbelievable fairy tale?

God means what He says and you will have alot to answer to on judgment day.

Fools!

easy with the name calling, and not very bercoming from someone who has repeatedly complained about being flamed.

 

[preistsplace]

And mr lamb,
you can not take all of revelations literally without coming across a few contradictions.
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
was he literally holding seven stars? Mr Lamb how big is a star....was there a literal sword sticking out of his mouth or are we to take this as signifying the word of God?
Rev 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
are they talking about thier literal clothes???
Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Is he going to come over and have roast beef and mashed npotatoes with you or is it that you allow him into your heart?

 

[preistsplace]

that Mr Lamb is only in the first three chapters the whole book is full of symbolism as I have stated previously it is illogical to assume that at chapter twenty all of the sudden it is very literal. After all who lives forever being cast into literal fire....
Wasn't your baptism a signifyed or symbolic death. See everyone has to be cleansed before they can enter the kingdom some with water and some with fire.

 

[threedog]

I don't see where it says God regretted he created man. It says he was sorrowful about it, which only means that man's rebellion hurt Him. If He really regretted it, He'd have either not given them free will in the Garden of Eden, or He'd have destroyed everyone in the flood, including Noah and his family.



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GENESIS 6:6-7

AND THE LORD WAS SORRY THAT HE HAD MADE MAN ON THE EARTH, AND HE WAS GRIEVED IN HIS HEART.

7...AND THE LORD SAID, I WILL BLOT OUT MAN WHOM I HAVE CREATED FROM THE FACE OF THE LAND, FROM MAN TO ANIMALS TO CREEPING THINGS AND TO BIRDS OF THE SKY; FOR I AM SORRY THAT I HAVE MADE THEM.

According to scripture God viewed his creation a total disaster. He had regreted it. He can't be all knowing, he cannot predict the future. The world has gotten worse...so why should God's feelings change towards us. The last time he felt this way he destroyed the world rather quickly. Truely Amazing!

What does your Bible say?

threedog

 

[A New Dawn]

GENESIS 6:6-7

AND THE LORD WAS SORRY THAT HE HAD MADE MAN ON THE EARTH, AND HE WAS GRIEVED IN HIS HEART.

7...AND THE LORD SAID, I WILL BLOT OUT MAN WHOM I HAVE CREATED FROM THE FACE OF THE LAND, FROM MAN TO ANIMALS TO CREEPING THINGS AND TO BIRDS OF THE SKY; FOR I AM SORRY THAT I HAVE MADE THEM.

According to scripture God viewed his creation a total disaster. He had regreted it. He can't be all knowing, he cannot predict the future. The world has gotten worse...so why should God's feelings change towards us. The last time he felt this way he destroyed the world rather quickly. Truely Amazing!

What does your Bible say?

threedog

If you read it as regret, well, I can't stop you, but it looks like sorrow to me. That doesn't mean that he 1. wished he hadn't created man, or 2. That He isn't all knowing. That is just your conjecture. Nowhere does it say either of those things. Since He prepared a way to redeem man from the fall, I'd say that God could see the future and even prepared a way for the elect to return to Him.

 

[LJSGM]

that Mr Lamb is only in the first three chapters the whole book is full of symbolism as I have stated previously it is illogical to assume that at chapter twenty all of the sudden it is very literal. After all who lives forever being cast into literal fire....
Wasn't your baptism a signifyed or symbolic death. See everyone has to be cleansed before they can enter the kingdom some with water and some with fire.

Yes, water often means life or cleansing, but fire almost every time means destruction or annihilation when it's refering to punishment....

 

[A New Dawn]

Yes, water often means life or cleansing, but fire almost every time means destruction or anihillation when it's refering to punishment....

Water means chaos and death, not cleansing or life.

 

[LJSGM]

Water means chaos and death, not cleansing or life.

depends on the context...

With baptism is means cleansing, and also Jesus called himself living water.