Universalism

[timlamb]

We know from Matt 7:14 that FEW go by th narrow strait way [of saints] in this life

This is adding to scripture

We know from Rev 7:9-10 that uncountatbly many of all nations are saved afterward according to Jesus and that they won't even be resurrected until after the Millenium :-

These are already in heaven

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

And this refers to the unsaved.
You have not studied the book of revelation have you? only for out takes that fit your needs.
Revelation 19:
19Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to make war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21The rest of them were killed with the sword that came out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.....AND THEN THEY ALL LOVED jESUS AND LIVED HAPPILY EVER AFTER, THE END? I don't think so!

So the broad way leads countless many to salvation at a very different time than the few saved at Jesus' return ... this is not opinion, or interpretation, it is simply what Matthew and Jesus say , read it yourself,

I did: Matthew 7:13-14: "13"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." The broad way leads to DISTRUCTION!!! and many go that route.

2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

We agree on something

Hebrews 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

And you used this completely out of context.

:oThis is what results when you read the bible simply to further you agenda.

 

[stranger]

We know from Matt 7:14 that FEW go by the narrow strait way [of saints] in this life

​

This is adding to scripture

What on earth do you think I have added to scripture ??? I only quoted a reference to remind people , no scripture is modified at all.

Is it that you don't think the few are saints ? If so then read Matthew 7:23,
Luke 13:27 ,2 Timothy 2:19

We know from Rev 7:9-10 that uncountatbly many of all nations are saved afterward according to Jesus and that they won't even be resurrected until after the Millenium :-
​

These are already in heaven

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

​

And this refers to the unsaved.

It refers to the many ,not the few, and as Jesus says , uncountably many are saved [Rev 7:9-10], not 'unsaved'

The bible at no point says anyone is 'unsaved' . It is you who are adding religious myths to scripture

You have not studied the book of revelation have you? only for out takes that fit your needs.

I cannot quote the whole scripture here, I have to assume you have read some yourself, and it is yourself who adds religious myths to it ,not me , I have been studying scripture for thirty years and resent your wild unfounded accusations ... speak with respect to others here please , else we cannot hope to clear up misunderstandings that mostly arise from divided religion that seems to sway your readings of scripture.

Revelation 19:
19Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to make war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21The rest of them were killed with the sword that came out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.....AND THEN THEY ALL LOVED jESUS AND LIVED HAPPILY EVER AFTER, THE END? I don't think so!

It doesn't matter here for sake of discussion what you privately choose to think, what matters here is what the scripture says will happen... all will bow to Jesus and accept him as lord ,whether in earth, in heaven,or under the earth :-

Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

If you choose to not believe Jesus and the saints then you are free to do so, it is nothing to do with me what you believe, but you must accept that you are ignoring these above scriptures in your beliefs because they say as plainly as can be said, every creature will accept Jesus as lord, bow to him, cede all power to him, obey His law of love .. that includes Satan even , after he is cast into the 'lake of fire' , God's mercy endures for all time

So the broad way leads countless many to salvation at a very different time than the few saved at Jesus' return ... this is not opinion, or interpretation, it is simply what Matthew and Jesus say , read it yourself,
​

I did: Matthew 7:13-14: "13"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." The broad way leads to DISTRUCTION!!! and many go that route.

Yes the many do go through destruction in death, but Jesus says that the many are saved [Rev 7:9-10] , the spirit belongs to God and returns to God at death, it is not ever subject to death or destruction :-

1 Corinthians 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Resurrection is by 'breathing' the spirit back into a body clearly people will need a renewd body since to old one died , it matters not to God that the body is destroyed in death of most]

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Hebrews 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

​

And you used this completely out of context.

I use it in the context of the new covenant of grace , I assume that you are capable of reading the context for yourself ... if you want to make some point about the context then make it, it is useless to wave hands inteh air and just say 'out of context' withut saying what aspect of context you are talking about ... one cannot quote the whole scripture here because of space , you have to read most of it for yourself

:oThis is what results when you read the bible simply to further you agenda.

I have no agenda, I simply enjoy discussing what the scripture really says ... since you curiously bring up the matter spuriously , then please consider whether it is yourself who has acquired religious agenda and seeks to fit scripture to it , rather than learning scripture first before deciding what to believe ?

 

[timlamb]

We know from Matt 7:14 that FEW go by the narrow strait way [of saints] in this life

​

This is adding to scripture
​

What on earth do you think I have added to scripture ???

How about the words "in this life"

It refers to the many ,not the few, and as Jesus says , uncountably many are saved [Rev 7:9-10], not 'unsaved'

Why don't you read the chapter, it refers to the Tribulation saints, which has nothing to do with the "many" who take the broad path to DESTRUCTION!

Revelation 19:
19Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to make war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21The rest of them were killed with the sword that came out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.....AND THEN THEY ALL LOVED jESUS AND LIVED HAPPILY EVER AFTER, THE END? I don't think so!

You totally blew by this, so I thought I'd bring it back and see if you care to comment.

The bible at no point says anyone is 'unsaved' . It is you who are adding religious myths to scripture

No, it calls them the Lost
Luke 15:24
For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' So they began to celebrate.
And Jesus says they need to be saved, that is why He came.
Luke 19:10
For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost."

So the broad way leads countless many to salvation at a very different time than the few saved at Jesus' return ... this is not opinion, or interpretation, it is simply what Matthew and Jesus say , read it yourself,

I did: Matthew 7:13-14: "13"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." The broad way leads to DISTRUCTION!!! and many go that route.
​

Yes the many do go through destruction in death, but Jesus says that the many are saved [Rev 7:9-10] , the spirit belongs to God and returns to God at death, it is not ever subject to death or destruction :-

Not only are you miss interpreting Revelation 7:9-10, as I proved above but you totally mis-represent Corr. 5:5 and ecc 12:7. the speak of savlation but not of anyone but those who are in Christ.
Your manipulation of scripture concerning all creatures bowing to Jesus on His throne speaks nothing of salvation either. Phil. 2:10 speaks to the pwoer and glory of His name that all "should" bow.

Revelation 5:13 "And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever."
This doesn't speak to univeral salvation, this line was used in the same chapter verse 3, that no creature in heaven on earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll. It is sybolism, it indicates a representation of creation.

Most of the world is lost and your fanciful interpretation of scripture won't change that.

19And I saw (A)the beast and (B)the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who (C)sat on the horse and against His army. Doom of the Beast and False Prophet

20And the beast was seized, and with him the (D)false prophet who (E)performed the signs (F)in his presence, by which he (G)deceived those who had received the (H)mark of the beast and those who (I)worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the (J)lake of (K)fire which burns with brimstone. 21And the rest were killed with the sword which (L)came from the mouth of Him who (M)sat on the horse, and (N)all the birds were filled with their flesh.

In the end, mankind wages war against the returning Chrsit, and He kills them with the word of His mouth and birds devour their flesh.

Even at the end of Christ's millenial reign, man rebels again:
"When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be (V)released from his prison, 8and will come out to (W)deceive the nations which are in the (X)four corners of the earth, (Y)Gog and Magog, to (Z)gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the (AA)sand of the seashore.
9And they (AB)came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the (AC)camp of the saints and the (AD)beloved city, and (AE)fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10And (AF)the devil who (AG)deceived them was thrown into the (AH)lake of fire and brimstone, where the (AI)beast and the (AJ)false prophet are also; and they will be (AK)tormented day and night forever and ever."
And then they fall in love with Jesus and go to heaven! NO, I don't think so, It's not in the book.



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[stranger]

And then they fall in love with Jesus and go to heaven! NO, I don't think so, It's not in the book.

But it is :-
Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Philippians 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Do you not think this is enough to get to heaven???

 

[timlamb]

But it is :-
Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Philippians 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Do you not think this is enough to get to heaven???

for everyone who does it, maybe, if their heart was in it.

But you msis interpret, this same phrase is in Revelation 5:3 and 5:13 "things(creatures)in heaven, and in the earth, and under the earth.."
It doesn't say or mean all men as in everyone since the beginning. It simply means that all creation knows Him and from all areas of creation He is worshipped.

 

[stranger]

1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

 

[timlamb]

1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[a] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

True, man has no other savior, Jesus is the Savior of all, and He shall save all whom believe.

 

[stranger]

Read it again, it says "the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe."

meaning that God is not only the saviour of those few [Matt 7:14] who specially believe in order to be the priests and kings of the kingdom come upon earth, but equally that he is the saviour of those who don't yet believe enough to give up sinning, become wholly loving, from whom countless many of all nations are later saved [Rev 7:9-10] who Matt 7 makes it clear went by the broad way through destruction of sinners in death to free them from sin [Rom 6:7] before resurrection after the Millenium
Revelation 20:3-6]

That all do in fact come to believe eventually , though not before Jesus' return, is shown by :-

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

If Jesus is truly accepted as lord , it means that he is obeyed , one ceases from sin and is saved :-

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Thus we see that every being ceases from sinning eventually, but only few do so before Jesus returns , most already having died sinners , many not even knowing of Jesus during their life with no opportunity to believe in Jesus until after the Millenium, some tragically not living to birth or long after birth...

It is thus self-contradictory to claim that salvation ends before the Millenium as much of Romanised religion claims today... Jesus states that the many [who go by the broad way] can be saved [Rev 7:9-10], not just the very few [144,000]who gave/give up sin in this life before his return.

True, man has no other savior, Jesus is the Savior of all, and He shall save all whom believe.

Sure, and scripture shows that only very few will do that in this life [Matt 7:14, Rev 7:3-8] but equally that countless many [who go by the broad way] will be saved afterward by similarly believing him ,according to Jesus [Rev 7:9-10]

 

[timlamb]

You quote the same verses over and over and over and over and over and over and over.....and get them wrong every time. Somewhere along the line you got hung up on the "many" and stopped saying all?

I did what I said I wouldn't and kept exposing scripture for you to mock and twist and in many cases just ignore. I did it because I knew you would finally repeat yourself enough times to discredit your thinking, I think you have achieved that now. So I will move on

OH yeh,

It is thus self-contradictory to claim that salvation ends before the Millenium as much of Romanised religion claims today... Jesus states that the many [who go by the broad way] can be saved [Rev 7:9-10], not just the very few [144,000]who gave/give up sin in this life before his return.
Sure, and scripture shows that only very few will do that in this life [Matt 7:14, Rev 7:3-8] but equally that countless many [who go by the broad way] will be saved afterward by similarly believing him ,according to Jesus [Rev 7:9-10]

You add to scripture Jesus said the broad path leads to distruction, and the narrow to salvation.

 

[BjorkIsCool]

I'm currently digging around some of the early (pre-Augustine) church fathers who did not support a doctrine of hell; I'm also looking in to Carlton Pearson's book 'The Gospel of Inclusion'.

Read: The Problem of Pain by CS lewis as well.

Verily read all CS Lewis books.

 

[timlamb]

Marcellus;51622137]Tim, it seems to me that Jesus will save what was lost not attempt to do so.

Salvation IS complete, yes, Amen! But like any gift, there is a giving and recieving, can you serve those who do not want to be served? From Genesis to Revelation the scripture spells it out, man rebells, turns his heart from God. Man may cry out from his suffering, but his heart never changes, except for those few of us, who find living in a relationship with Christ something to be cherished, and God someone to worship.

All come to believe, the scripture seems to be quite clear and indisputable. You even acknowledge this.

I acknowledged no such thing. They know who He is but they don't believe in Him. Like me and Pres. Obama. I know who he is, but I don't believe in him.

So are there men that are not part of creation? You seem to be contradicting yourself saying that Jesus will save all those who believe, all will believe, but all will not be saved. Your logic just doesn't add up.

I'm not trying to be logical, I'm trying to explain scripture. My logic just wouldn't suffice. But you, on the otherhand, believe God should be compatable to YOUR logic, that is why you just don't get it.

 

[timlamb]

Marcellus;51637446]A heart only changes when God changes it, salvation is a gift from God he does all of the work, it has nothing to do with our own righteousness.

Did I say differently?

Isaiah 64:6 "But we are all like an unclean thing, and all of our righteousnesses are like filthy rags"

I am not at all saying that there is another way to heaven other than Christ. I am saying that if God wills something to be than it will be, we as creatures have no will to defy God we are only able to rebel because He allows it.

No arguement here

Philippians 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

How can you confess that Jesus Christ is Lord and not believe in him?

Satan believes God exists and calls God "The Most High". I explained, you can believe Obama is President and bow to his authority as such but not "believe in" him. People will call to Him Lord, Lord, and He will say "Away from me, I never knew you"

Please do not speak for me.

I thought I was speaking to your arguement, sorry.

God does not have to conform to anything that I think or say, He is the Creator and I am only a creation.

true

1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

I do not know what is true in regards to universalism. I am only stating that it is well within God's ability to reconcile everyone to Him.
[/QUOTE]
But God cannot oppose Himself and His word says that will not happen.

We should not act as if our interpretation of scripture is always perfect.

Why, if we believe the Word of God and believe we have taken it truthfully then we should trust it completely in our hearts.

 

[timlamb]

When does his word say it will not happen? I am not saying that it does not, just asking where it does.

I assume you are referring to your own statement:

"I am only stating that it is well within God's ability to reconcile everyone to Him."

Rev 20;15If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Hebrews 3:
7Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says,
"TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,
8DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME,
AS IN THE DAY OF TRIAL IN THE WILDERNESS,
9WHERE YOUR FATHERS TRIED Me BY TESTING Me,
AND SAW MY WORKS FOR FORTY YEARS.
10"THEREFORE I WAS ANGRY WITH THIS GENERATION,
AND SAID, 'THEY ALWAYS GO ASTRAY IN THEIR HEART,
AND THEY DID NOT KNOW MY WAYS';
11AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH,
'THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST.'"...

....18And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient?
19So we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.

Go back and read my posts, read all the posts. Universal salvation is but a belief of willing ignorance.

 

[preistsplace]

That's a hell of a statement.

Let's see - because I have to die life is therefore one long trudge to the grave. If life is nothing more than a slow and painful decent into yet more pain and suffering - what the hell am I living for? Therefore life is hell.

Yeah well we gotta live in this imperfect world and make all the right decisions(even though salvation is not based on works)or we suffer much more and without end......Modern Christian Thinking...

But wait - there's more. If there is no hell life is apparently worth living - it's fun. Huh! What suddenly changed? Oh, life becomes a party once you remove hell from the equation.

From a Christian Universalist POV I believe in Hell and Punishment , I only disagree with the duration....And it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of a living God...

I look around me and I see it isn't so. Quite frankly if I did not believe in God I would be living in a stupefying mist of drugs and alcohol - permanently anesthetized against the horrors of what this world offers.

You are free to speculate , I do believe in God and Universalism

The theology of a hell sounds a whole lot better choice.

You have not accurately portrayed the Christian Universalist Perspective, You have effectively attacked things that a Christian UNIVERSALIST DOESN'T BELIEVE IN AND THEN SAID THAT YOU HAVE "REASON"

When you have finished talking you will still have to make some decisions. You might not like the theology of hell but it sure beats any other alternative.

So in a since if you make a mistake you actively decide to be tortured by it not only for the rest of your life but for all eternity...

 

[preistsplace]

Tim, it seems to me that Jesus will save what was lost not attempt to do so.

All come to believe, the scripture seems to be quite clear and indisputable. You even acknowledge this.


So are there men that are not part of creation? You seem to be contradicting yourself saying that Jesus will save all those who believe, all will believe, but all will not be saved. Your logic just doesn't add up.

Good Post

 

[preistsplace]

I assume you are referring to your own statement:

Rev 20;15If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Hebrews 3:
7Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says,
"TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,
8DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME,
AS IN THE DAY OF TRIAL IN THE WILDERNESS,
9WHERE YOUR FATHERS TRIED Me BY TESTING Me,
AND SAW MY WORKS FOR FORTY YEARS.
10"THEREFORE I WAS ANGRY WITH THIS GENERATION,
AND SAID, 'THEY ALWAYS GO ASTRAY IN THEIR HEART,
AND THEY DID NOT KNOW MY WAYS';
11AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH,
'THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST.'"...

....18And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient?
19So we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.

Go back and read my posts, read all the posts. Universal salvation is but a belief of willing ignorance.

In their form of disobedience they will in no way enter, or we could say that when they accept Christ as the truth will be eventually plainly available to all, then Christ will heal/change them as he has done for us(his elect) Is not baptism our crucifying of our old man with Christ.

 

[preistsplace]

Thomas Allin states in Christ Triumphant:
"All forms of partial salvation are but so many different ways of saying that evil is in the long run too strong for God."
I agree if we say that Jesus came to save the WORLD but could not save everyone because mans will to sin was greater that God's ability to save

 

[Tissue]

That's largely how I feel about it, preistsplace. The counter-argument that most give is that God respects our choice.

 

[peace4ever]

Just wanting to kickstart another discussion of universalism, as controversial as it is.

I'm sympathetic to the movement myself, but not enough to count myself among their number (yet, perhaps). I do find it practically impossible to be joyful if I include the doctrine of hell in my theology. I find it equally impossible to be melancholy if I remove the doctrine of hell in my theology.

I'm currently digging around some of the early (pre-Augustine) church fathers who did not support a doctrine of hell; I'm also looking in to Carlton Pearson's book 'The Gospel of Inclusion'.

Let's talk.

The bible isn't about feeling good. It's about truth. Universalism comes from Satan's first lie; "You will not surely die. Hell doesn't last forever so you can enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season. Come, follow me."

But as 2 Timothy 4:3 explains, "For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what itching ears want to hear. They will turn away from the truth and turn aside to myths."

Well the time has come. And universalism is definitely what itching ears want to hear. So you can't read the bible to look for what you want to see, you read the bible wanting God's truth no matter how convicting it may be.

 

[Tissue]

The bible isn't about feeling good. It's about truth.

The Bible is about the sovereignty of God, and ultimate victory over sin, as portrayed on the cross. Victory over death. Such themes can certainly extend beyond simple 'partial salvation'.

Christianity certainly isn't all about feeling good, but the theme of joy is a thick strand throughout Scripture.

Universalism comes from Satan's first lie; "You will not surely die. Hell doesn't last forever so you can enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season. Come, follow me."

Pretty sure you made up the sentences in bold.

Satan told them they would not die from eating the fruit. It seems to me that he was referring to a physical death (though, it is rather hard to tell, as it seems unlikely that Adam or Eve would have properly understood death). I think it would be very difficult to put together a compelling case that the serpent (who is never called 'Satan', by the way) was referring to eschatology.

But as 2 Timothy 4:3 explains, "For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what itching ears want to hear. They will turn away from the truth and turn aside to myths."

Well the time has come. And universalism is definitely what itching ears want to hear. So you can't read the bible to look for what you want to see, you read the bible wanting God's truth no matter how convicting it may be.

This is what I call a 'heat-seeking missile'. Heat-seeking missiles are verses that can be used in a large variety of circumstances, as they are quite general in their scope, and are often employed by people who wish to set their own belief (which is the right one) apart from the one that God despises (which is the wrong one). Problem is, there's nothing in the verse that actually makes any distinctive claim about the beliefs in question; at least, not in a way that distinguishes it from other beliefs. Heat-seeking missiles are often found in the epistles.

You are implying that Universalism is clearly wrong because itching ears wait for it, and rejoice when they hear it. But what of the unsaved who want salvation, and rejoice when they hear the Gospel message? Could it not also be said that their ears 'itch' for the message, and that they will gather around people who proclaim this message for them? The verse is quite general. Ears itch for truth as well. And truth is sometimes a beautiful thing.