Just wanting to kickstart another discussion of universalism, as controversial as it is.
I'm sympathetic to the movement myself, but not enough to count myself among their number (yet, perhaps). I do find it practically impossible to be joyful if I include the doctrine of hell in my theology. I find it equally impossible to be melancholy if I remove the doctrine of hell in my theology.
I'm currently digging around some of the early (pre-Augustine) church fathers who did not support a doctrine of hell; I'm also looking in to Carlton Pearson's book 'The Gospel of Inclusion'.
Let's talk.
Why not listen to the earliest 'church father', Jesus' doctrine about hell ? :-
Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and
hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man
according to their works.
Perhaps some 12 billion, who died sinners , but death and hell cannot hold them... according to Jesus
They have all paid the penalty, the wages of their sin is death :-
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
If they were already judged beyond redemption then why would God trouble to resurrect them from hell to judge them by works after they were freed from sin in this life by their death? :-
Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Many who have died sinners never even heard of Jesus in this life, what Jesus says is that they will be tried by their works after resurrection , along with all other sinners .
Jesus will take no-one to himself until they cease from sinning , he says so :-
Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them,
I never knew you: depart from me,
ye that work iniquity.
The foundation of God is to OBEY Jesus as Lord, to love, not to continue unlovingness, sin. Sinners are disobeying Jesus, so plainly he is not their lord because they do not obey him :-
Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and
do not the things which I say?
Romans 2:13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the
doers of the law shall be justified.
James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only,
deceiving your own selves.
Jesus told us what the command of the law is, put simply it is to love , sin is breaking the law, sin is any unlovingness ...
All Jesus and the saints are saying is that one cannot be accepted by God if one is still unloving in one's acts, not in any of them...
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet
offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Clearly most people have not and will not be acceptable to God from this life, and indeed the scripture states just that in Matt 7:14
BUT Jesus says that not just the few are saved who are made acceptable to God by the new covenant in this life, but countless many are saved by works afterward, after death as sinners , but not when the few are saved [since the few have to be first as their role is as priests and kings serving the countless many later saved]:-
Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo,
a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying,
Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
There we have it then, much modern religion run by sinners , not saints, tells sinners that the many who go by the broad way through destruction in death are then mindlessly tortured for some mythical infinity of time... Jesus tells us that countless many are saved , not just the few who are firstfruits.
It is just logic that divided religion has fallen away from the truth ,
many so-called 'truths' simply cannot be
one truth [of God]... but just reading what Jesus says shows how far religion in all denominations has lost the teachings of Jesus and the saints and believes in doctrines of sinners in our time... indeed Jesus and the saints said and showed why that it must happen ...
One cannot thus find the truth from modern religion of sinners, one must go back and read the scripture of the saints and Jesus and the prophets of God [or wait upon God for spirit baptism to reveal all truth -John 16:13- as promised to all flesh -Joel 2:28- , but clearly most already died without receiving all truth in this life , it proves that god will baptise the many after resurrection of sinners freed from sin , so that they may be redeemed by works at judgment day!
It is Jesus who says the many are saved afterward, not just the few who are first... one must decide whether to believe Jesus or religious tradition ...
