Universalism...why not?

[sdowney717]

While I agree with, I think it is a little deeper than that.

Look at the sheep's response in Matthew 25:37-39. It's very humble, they did not even know they were doing righteous works for Christ. They did not pursue righteousness, but did obtain it. As paul says in romans 9:30 and romans 10:20, the gentiles did not pursue righteousness, but did obtain.

Look at the goat's response in Matthew 25:44. It's self righteous. They thought they were doing righteous works for Christ, when they really weren't. The pursue righteousness, but did not obtain it. As paul says in romans 9:31, Israel pursued righteousness, but did not obtain.

That is because righteousness is not by observance of God's LAW, but by faith in Jesus Christ, for all and for any who believe in Him by faith, for the righteous shall Live (be spiritually alive to God ) by thier faith.. He has become for us the righteousness of God in Christ. And most of the Jews did not believe in Christ, but some few did, because they were chosen-preserved by God. This was to fulfil His word which He spoke through Isaiah, refer to John 12.
37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him: 38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?

39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.


Romans 1:17
For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”

Romans 3:5
But if our unrighteousness demonstrates the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unjust who inflicts wrath? (I speak as a man.)

Romans 3:21
[ God’s Righteousness Through Faith ] But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,

Romans 3:22
even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;

Romans 4:6
just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

 

[Dartman]

While I agree with, I think it is a little deeper than that.

Look at the sheep's response in Matthew 25:37-39. It's very humble, they did not even know they were doing righteous works for Christ. They did not pursue righteousness, but did obtain it. As paul says in romans 9:30 and romans 10:20, the gentiles did not pursue righteousness, but did obtain.

Look at the goat's response in Matthew 25:44. It's self righteous. They thought they were doing righteous works for Christ, when they really weren't. The pursue righteousness, but did not obtain it. As paul says in romans 9:31, Israel pursued righteousness, but did not obtain.

Yes, humility is a righteous attitude, but it isn't the ONLY criteria! Righteous WORKS are also a major requirement ... look at the works they DID, and the works that justified their salvation, according to Jesus. Also, why would someone DO those works? Out of love!

Those condemned are ALSO judged "by their works", (or lack thereof), and again, WHY did they fail to DO the works? A lack of love!

So, we have humiliy vrs arrogance, works vrs no works, love vrs no love .... and this is just one text.

There are MANY elements to people becoming Godly .... "imitators of God";
Eph 5:1-12 Be ye therefore imitators of God, as beloved children; 2 and walk in love, even as Christ also loved you, and gave himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for an odor of a sweet smell.
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as becometh saints; 4 nor filthiness, nor foolish talking, or jesting, which are not befitting: but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this ye know of a surety, that no fornicator, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no man deceive you with empty words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the sons of disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them; 8 For ye were once darkness, but are now light in the Lord: walk as children of light 9 (for the fruit of the light is in all goodness and righteousness and truth),
10 proving what is well-pleasing unto the Lord; 11 and have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather even reprove them; 12 for the things which are done by them in secret it is a shame even to speak of.

 

[claninja]

That is because righteousness is not by observance of God's LAW, but by faith in Jesus Christ, for all and for any who believe in Him by faith, for the righteous shall Live (be spiritually alive to God ) by thier faith.. He has become for us the righteousness of God in Christ. And most of the Jews did not believe in Christ, but some few did, because they were chosen-preserved by God. This was to fulfil His word which He spoke through Isaiah, refer to John 12.
37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him: 38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?

39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.


Romans 1:17
For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”

Romans 3:5
But if our unrighteousness demonstrates the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unjust who inflicts wrath? (I speak as a man.)

Romans 3:21
[ God’s Righteousness Through Faith ] But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,

Romans 3:22
even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;

Romans 4:6
just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

Thank you for helping make my point

 

[Rajni]

That is because righteousness is not by observance of God's LAW, but by faith in Jesus Christ, for all and for any who believe in Him by faith, for the righteous shall Live (be spiritually alive to God ) by thier faith.. He has become for us the righteousness of God in Christ. And most of the Jews did not believe in Christ, but some few did, because they were chosen-preserved by God. This was to fulfil His word which He spoke through Isaiah, refer to John 12.

So did Jesus become for us the righteousness of God before we believed that or after we believed that?

 

[Dartman]

That is because righteousness is not by observance of God's LAW, but by faith in Jesus Christ, for all and for any who believe in Him by faith, for the righteous shall Live (be spiritually alive to God ) by thier faith.. He has become for us the righteousness of God in Christ. And most of the Jews did not believe in Christ, but some few did, because they were chosen-preserved by God. This was to fulfil His word which He spoke through Isaiah, refer to John 12.
37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him: 38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?

39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.


Romans 1:17
For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”

Romans 3:5
But if our unrighteousness demonstrates the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unjust who inflicts wrath? (I speak as a man.)

Romans 3:21
[ God’s Righteousness Through Faith ] But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,

Romans 3:22
even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;

Romans 4:6
just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

Yes, Paul makes the point that Faith is more important than the Law, and that everyone needs grace;
Rom 4:7-8 (saying), Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.

BUT .. It is incomplete to think that Faith can be separated from works/keeping the commandments given to Jesus by his God;

John 14:15, 24 If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments. .. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my words: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's who sent me.


1 John 2:3-4 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:22-24 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of Him, because we keep His commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment, That we should believe on the name of His son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24 And he that keepeth His commandments dwelleth in Him, and He in him. And hereby we know that He abideth in us, by the spirit which He hath given us.


1 John 5:2-3 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments: and His commandments are not grievous.

 

[sdowney717]

Yes, Paul makes the point that Faith is more important than the Law, and that everyone needs grace;
Rom 4:7-8 (saying), Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.

BUT .. It is incomplete to think that Faith can be separated from works/keeping the commandments given to Jesus by his God;

John 14:15, 24 If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments. .. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my words: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's who sent me.


1 John 2:3-4 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:22-24 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of Him, because we keep His commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment, That we should believe on the name of His son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24 And he that keepeth His commandments dwelleth in Him, and He in him. And hereby we know that He abideth in us, by the spirit which He hath given us.


1 John 5:2-3 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments: and His commandments are not grievous.

Sure, but the works is not the foundation of the relationship...because we have been saved by His grace alone, lest we have grounds for boasting in our flesh.

Ephesians 2New King James Version (NKJV)
By Grace Through Faith
2 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

 

[sdowney717]

So did Jesus become for us the righteousness of God before we believed that or after we believed that?

If your talking about the forgiveness of our sins, then, this must include the question of when we have been born of God, because all those who are born of God overcome the world by their faith. Being born again must come first before you enter the kingdom of God by faith in Christ.
Christ died for believers in Him that they would not perish but have everlasting life...The world has not died to sin and does not live for righteousness, they remain slaves of sin, not slaves of righteousness.
1 Peter 2:24
who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed.
2 Peter 1:1
[ Greeting the Faithful ] Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

How do we obtain our faith? , it is through Christ that we beleive in God. Which means by His work you are a believer!

John 6:28
Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
John 6:29
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work ofGod, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”


1 Peter 1:20-22 New King James Version (NKJV)
20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you 21 who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

 

[claninja]

Yes, humility is a righteous attitude, but it isn't the ONLY criteria! Righteous WORKS are also a major requirement ... look at the works they DID, and the works that justified their salvation, according to Jesus. Also, why would someone DO those works? Out of love!

Those condemned are ALSO judged "by their works", (or lack thereof), and again, WHY did they fail to DO the works? A lack of love!

So, we have humiliy vrs arrogance, works vrs no works, love vrs no love .... and this is just one text.

There are MANY elements to people becoming Godly .... "imitators of God";
Eph 5:1-12 Be ye therefore imitators of God, as beloved children; 2 and walk in love, even as Christ also loved you, and gave himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for an odor of a sweet smell.
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as becometh saints; 4 nor filthiness, nor foolish talking, or jesting, which are not befitting: but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this ye know of a surety, that no fornicator, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no man deceive you with empty words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the sons of disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them; 8 For ye were once darkness, but are now light in the Lord: walk as children of light 9 (for the fruit of the light is in all goodness and righteousness and truth),
10 proving what is well-pleasing unto the Lord; 11 and have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather even reprove them; 12 for the things which are done by them in secret it is a shame even to speak of.

The context leading up to this passage from Matthew 21-24 repeatedly talks about the destruction of Israel. The point I'm making is not about works/faith, but about the subjects of this parable. Israel as Gods chosen people are about to be punished and kingdom is about to be taken from them and given to a nation producing fruit.

 

[Rajni]

Christ died for believers in Him that they would not perish but have everlasting life...The world has not died to sin and does not live for righteousness, they remain slaves of sin, not slaves of righteousness.

I think that positionally, though, what Christ did would impact those who don't yet believe as well, it's just that they have yet to realize it.

In other words, if Christ's dying for them is a fact, it is so whether they believe it or not. Facts exist independently of whether or not people believe they do.

Kind of like the millionaire analogy. One can in fact be a millionaire, but unless they know that fact, they're going to continue living on as a slave to poverty.

I think the gospel is often presented in such a way that it makes it appear as though one has to first believe one is a millionaire (to use the analogy) before actually being one, when in reality one would already have to be a millionaire in fact prior to being a millionaire in belief, for that belief be based on fact.

Belief doesn't bring about a fact, belief is simply based upon a fact and motivates the believer to live in accordance with that already-established fact. If that makes sense.

This is what I see in 1 Timothy 4:10 about God being the Savior of everyone, especially of believers (not exclusively of believers). Two people can be millionaires, but the one who is aware now that he is a millionaire is especially one, because he knows here and now of his millionaire status and can benefit from that knowledge in the here and now rather than somewhere in the future.

 

[sdowney717]

I think that positionally, though, what Christ did would impact those who don't yet believe as well, it's just that they have yet to realize it.

In other words, if Christ's dying for them is a fact, it is so whether they believe it or not. Facts exist independently of whether or not people believe they do.

Kind of like the millionaire analogy. One can in fact be a millionaire, but unless they know that fact, they're going to continue living on as a slave to poverty.

I think the gospel is often presented in such a way that it makes it appear as though one has to first believe one is a millionaire (to use the analogy) before actually being one, when in reality one would already have to be a millionaire in fact prior to being a millionaire in belief, for that belief be based on fact.

Belief doesn't bring about a fact, belief is simply based upon a fact and motivates the believer to live in accordance with that already-established fact. If that makes sense.

This is what I see in 1 Timothy 4:10 about God being the Savior of everyone, especially of believers (not exclusively of believers). Two people can be millionaires, but the one who is aware now that he is a millionaire is especially one, because he knows here and now of his millionaire status and can benefit from that knowledge in the here and now rather than somewhere in the future.

Christ is the savior of all men all over the earth, from every nation, tongue, will be people who are saved,
not just the Jews. Many Jews considered the gentiles unclean and cursed by God, and they were the chosen people. Jesus disrupted that idea completely.
Romans 9 teaches well that it is according to the calling of God that any particular Jew or gentile is saved. Salvation is only for them that God has chosen to show mercy individually.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not!

15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.”

16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.”

18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.

19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

 

[Der Alte]

Right, according to what I can see from your posts, you don't believe God will save the whole world, only those who believe. So I'm not sure why you posted this. It says God may save the world, not that he will. So wouldn't that agree with what you believe, that he will save believers only, not the whole world?

Yes I believe that only those who have heard the gospel and have accepted Christ will be saved.

Revelation 21:4-5
(4) And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
(5) And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.​

Vs. 4 says "there shall be no more death." In vs. 5 Jesus says "Behold, I make all things new." "No more death,""all things new" but in vs. 8 we see several groups of people being thrown into the lake of fire which is the second.

Revelation 21:8
(8) But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.​

And there is no resurrection after this, no one being saved.

 

[claninja]

Yes I believe that only those who have heard the gospel and have accepted Christ will be saved.

Revelation 21:4-5
(4) And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
(5) And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.​

Vs. 4 says "there shall be no more death." In vs. 5 Jesus says "Behold, I make all things new." "No more death,""all things new" but in vs. 8 we see several groups of people being thrown into the lake of fire which is the second.

Revelation 21:8
(8) But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.​

And there is no resurrection after this, no one being saved.

Very nice. So now back to the original post. Being handed over to Satan for the Destruction of the flesh may lead to saving of the spirit. Like you said it may not guarantee it, but it can still happen, otherwise Paul would not have stated it in 1 Corinthians 5:5

 

[claninja]

Christ is the savior of all men all over the earth, from every nation, tongue, will be people who are saved,
not just the Jews. Many Jews considered the gentiles unclean and cursed by God, and they were the chosen people. Jesus disrupted that idea completely.
Romans 9 teaches well that it is according to the calling of God that any particular Jew or gentile is saved. Salvation is only for them that God has chosen to show mercy individually.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not!

15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.”

16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.”

18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.

19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Technically, this is about the judgment coming on Israel. Israel is the vessel of wrath. If it wasn't for the remnant elect Jews (part of the vessels of mercy) Israel would have become like sodom and Gomorrah. romans 9:27-28. But this judgement on Israel serves a purpose, so that salvation may come to the Gentiles (a people not seeking God Isaiah 65:1). But being a vessel of wrath is not the end of Israel. Romans 9-11 must be taken as a whole. For God has consigned all to disobedience that he may have mercy on all.

 

[Hillsage]

Of course He CAN.... anyone who converts has been converted by God ... "it is God that gives the increase".
Compare the conversion of Paul to the interaction between Moses and Pharaoh. Were the miracles performed in Egypt more dramatic than the miracle on the road to Damascus?? Of course. So, why was Saul/Paul converted with so little effort, but Pharaoh was only temporarily persuaded???
Some people reject God, some submit. (Many and Few... according to Jesus)

I was merely pointing out the theological fallacy of your last post's premise when you said the following;

When civilization gets TOO wicked, it becomes too difficult to convert others, even our own families;

So now, with this post you just point out your 'theological inconsistency'.

 

[Dartman]

Sure, but the works is not the foundation of the relationship...because we have been saved by His grace alone, lest we have grounds for boasting in our flesh.

"Grace alone" isn't accurate. There are very specific things we MUST have to be saved... and Grace is included. We must also believe. We must also obey. The source of many people's confusion is, the fact that NO ONE'S obedience, or faith will earn them eternal life.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.[

 

[sdowney717]

"Grace alone" isn't accurate. There are very specific things we MUST have to be saved... and Grace is included. We must also believe. We must also obey. The source of many people's confusion is, the fact that NO ONE'S obedience, or faith will earn them eternal life.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.[

OK read the words of Christ and you will see your salvation is all of Him and none of you, there is no good thing that dwells in your flesh (heart).

'For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.'

The way salvation is by grace meaning God's favor, Christ explains in John 3 and John 6, it involves being born anew with a new heart, born of God, Him drawing and Him teaching us which is why we then believe.
No one will believe in Christ unless He does those things for us first.

He the Spirit, remakes us with a new heart (we are His workmanship ) that can know Him so that we believe, but He does not make us believe.

In John 6 here, some people are asking, like all who are not born of God, of Christ how they need to do God's work to be acceptable to God and be saved.
And also do the miraculous work of God they have seen Christ doing.

John 6
28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”

29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

30 Therefore they said to Him, “What sign will You perform then, that we may see it and believe You? What work will You do? 31 Our fathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’”

32 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but My Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”

34 Then they said to Him, “Lord, give us this bread always.”

35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.

36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe.

37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.

40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

.............

43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves.

44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father.
............

61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.

65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”

 

[sdowney717]

And do not confuse good fruit with good works.
John 5 is clear that those who believe have passed from death into life, and they did not do any good works first to obtain eternal life.

24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

Good fruit all must bear, or your destiny is to be burned, but good fruit is what is spoken out from your heart, and for those who God has given the new heart, they will bear good fruit by what they say about God and Christ. For out of the heart the mouth speaks.
And no one can say Jesus is LORD except by the Holy Spirit.
Being righteous according to God is apart from works.

Romans 4:5-8New King James Version (NKJV)
David Celebrates the Same Truth
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

And here Christ links fruit to the inner nature of yourself which people will know by what you say of God, Christ, the Holy Spirit and spiritual truths or communicate even so on this forum..

It is God who makes the tree (you or me) either by nature good or bad. We are all born with an evil nature, we must be reborn according to God's mercy to be the good tree having a new nature which bears fruit unto holiness.

Matthew 12:33-34New King James Version (NKJV)
A Tree Known by Its Fruit
33 “Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit.

34 Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

1 Peter 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

 

[Dartman]

OK read the words of Christ and you will see your salvation is all of Him and none of you, there is no good thing that dwells in your flesh (heart).

Your points are good .... but incomplete... and risky, in that we should NOT expect God to do all the work!
WE must accept the responsibility for our own actions .. and WE must TAKE action, DO works, DO truth.
Eph 4:17-5:13

17 So this I say, and affirm together with the Lord, that you walk no longer just as the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their mind, 18 being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart; 19 and they, having become callous, have given themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness. 20 But you did not learn Christ in this way, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught in Him, just as truth is in Jesus, 22 that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit, 23 and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.

25 Therefore, laying aside falsehood, SPEAK TRUTH EACH ONE of you WITH HIS NEIGHBOR, for we are members of one another. 26 BE ANGRY, AND yet DO NOT SIN; do not let the sun go down on your anger, 27 and do not give the devil an opportunity. 28 He who steals must steal no longer; but rather he must labor, performing with his own hands what is good, so that he will have something to share with one who has need. 29 Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear. 30 Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. 32 Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.

Be Imitators of God

5 Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children; 2 and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma.

3 But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; 4 and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them; 8 for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light 9 (for the fruit of the Light consists in all goodness and righteousness and truth), 10 trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. 11 Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them; 12 for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret.

 

[sdowney717]

Your points are good .... but incomplete... and risky, in that we should NOT expect God to do all the work!
WE must accept the responsibility for our own actions .. and WE must TAKE action, DO works, DO truth.
Eph 4:17-5:13

17 So this I say, and affirm together with the Lord, that you walk no longer just as the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their mind, 18 being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart; 19 and they, having become callous, have given themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness. 20 But you did not learn Christ in this way, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught in Him, just as truth is in Jesus, 22 that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit, 23 and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.

25 Therefore, laying aside falsehood, SPEAK TRUTH EACH ONE of you WITH HIS NEIGHBOR, for we are members of one another. 26 BE ANGRY, AND yet DO NOT SIN; do not let the sun go down on your anger, 27 and do not give the devil an opportunity. 28 He who steals must steal no longer; but rather he must labor, performing with his own hands what is good, so that he will have something to share with one who has need. 29 Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear. 30 Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. 32 Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.

Be Imitators of God

5 Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children; 2 and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma.

3 But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; 4 and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them; 8 for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light 9 (for the fruit of the Light consists in all goodness and righteousness and truth), 10 trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. 11 Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them; 12 for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret.

Your good works are not what saves, belief in Christ is what saves you. Your good works are the basis for any possible rewards God may bestow on you.

Those who believe will be doing good works as ordained of God that He has prepared ahead of time for them to do.
God rewires them when they are born of God. They have become new creations in Christ, and God has ordained that they will bear good fruit, so they will. It is impossible for those whom God foreknew, predestined, called, justified to not finally be glorified. Those the Father gives to Christ before they know Christ, God foreknows them as His people, and so then they will come to Christ. And the second part is, all those who come to Christ He will not cast out into hell. It is impossible for the elect to fall away so that they would be lost.

John 6
37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.
39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.

1 John 5New King James Version (NKJV)
1 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. 5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

And

Romans 8
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

 

[Dartman]

Your good works are not what saves, belief in Christ is what saves you. Your good works are the basis for any possible rewards God may bestow on you.

Those who believe will be doing good works as ordained of God that He has prepared ahead of time for them to do.
God rewires them when they are born of God. They have become new creations in Christ, and God has ordained that they will bear good fruit, so they will. It is impossible for those whom God foreknew, predestined, called, justified to not finally be glorified. Those the Father gives to Christ before they know Christ, God foreknows them as His people, and so then they will come to Christ. And the second part is, all those who come to Christ He will not cast out into hell. It is impossible for the elect to fall away so that they would be lost.

John 6
37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.
39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.

1 John 5New King James Version (NKJV)
1 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. 5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

And

Romans 8
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

We are both acknowledging Grace, Faith and Works are involved.
And, we are both recognizing ALL that we are, know and feel, comes from Jehovah/YHVH God.
It SEEMS that the disconnect between us is, how MUCH responsibility the believer has.
God has created the universe, including you and me.
God has provided His spirit: His thinking, wisdom, values, plan of salvation and the power produced by His mind.
God has provided His "holy servant" Jesus, who gave his life for the sins of humanity, and God is willing to count that one man's death, as adequate payment for BILLIONS of sinners, and BILLIONS of sins ..... IF (and only IF).. the sinner believes and obeys Him .... and that reality is horrible math, but it is AMAZING GRACE!!
No human being, Jesus included, can take credit for ANY of God's plan. It is God's creation, God's plan of salvation, God's wisdom, God's righteousness, God's justice, etc.
That being said, it is still OUR responsibility to seek Him, and obey Him. God will cover for what we CANNOT do, but we STILL have to DO! We have to choose. We have to believe. We have to obey, and when we fail to obey, we have to repent and pray for forgiveness;
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness