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Featured Universalism...why not?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by surrender1, Jun 1, 2017.

  1. God doesn't want all men to be saved.

    4 vote(s)
    8.2%
  2. God can't do what he wants to do.

    2 vote(s)
    4.1%
  3. Neither, God will continue to work on unrepentant souls because his love & patience are unending.

    40 vote(s)
    81.6%
  4. Don't know...never thought about this before.

    3 vote(s)
    6.1%
  1. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    You admit, I take it, that God could have prevented these terrible things on Earth--but did not. That's the same God you reasoned could not or would not condemn anyone to suffering in hell because his nature is too loving for such a thing. It looks like that reasoning is inconsistent.
     
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  2. SeventyOne

    SeventyOne Well-Known Member

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    Probably for the same reason He didn't provide a path of redemption for Satan and the fallen one's. Just because He can do something doesn't mean He will do something. What He did tell us is that those who do not have the Son are condemned already. He'll keep His word. They are condemned.
     
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  3. SeventyOne

    SeventyOne Well-Known Member

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    The Israelites did a lot of things against His will, such as following after other gods and remaining in disobedience.

    Jesus said concerning Jerusalem that He often desired to gather them to Himself as a hen gathers her chicks, but He didn't do it because they were not willing. There's an actual example for you of what God will do in cases where even though He desires another path, He refrained from doing so based on the willingness of the subject.

    Just because God saves, and wants to save, doesn't mean he will do so if the subject is not willing. These people will end up in the Lake of Fire at some point.
     
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  4. PropheticTimes

    PropheticTimes Lord Have Mercy Supporter

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    The key word here is "child". We are not born children of God. Not one of God's children will suffer eternal torment. However, those who do not accept Jesus' atonement and bear the seal of God (the Holy Spirit) cannot call God "Father". Those in eternal torment have put themselves there by their free will choice to reject Christ and harden their hearts to the Holy Spirit.

    God never gives up on His children.

    12Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
    John 1:12-13
     
  5. ByTheSpirit

    ByTheSpirit Pray always!!

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    The answer to your question is after this life there is judgement. God gives people all the opportunity they need in this life to accept him and it is on us to decide what to do.

    If God was going to save all people, even those who never professed faith in Christ, then Jesus would not have needed to die. God could have just pardoned humanity.
     
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  6. Hall

    Hall God is good

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    If you had proof that a Christian's life becomes a 100% better after they are saved, would you seek to become a Christian yourself?
     
  7. surrender1

    surrender1 Newbie

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    No, he could not have prevented those things. Not unless he wanted to trash the entire purpose of creation.

    Actually, wrong. :)
     
  8. surrender1

    surrender1 Newbie

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    But it's not just that he can. He also *desires* to do it. So, then, why wouldn't he do what he desires if he can do what he desires? (I think he will, but I'm asking you for your reasoning)

    This was in the context of the coming judgment of AD 70.
     
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  9. surrender1

    surrender1 Newbie

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    In OT days, God was said to deal with nations through national judgment and this is what that verse is about. It's not about individual salvation in eternal life. I realize that God doesn't get his way all the time. That's because we get to make choices in our lives, good and bad. But given enough opportunity and time, God can heal even the worst of sinners. So, if God desires all to be saved and Paul writes that Jesus' one act of obedience leads to justification and life for all, then I believe God will continue to work on souls after this life. And that notion aligns with what a good parent does. He never gives up. Love never fails.

    The lake of fire or second death was a concept used for the nation of Israel in warning of the coming national judgment in AD 70.
     
  10. surrender1

    surrender1 Newbie

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    The theory of Eternal conscious torment is full of holes.

    God loves all people.
     
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  11. surrender1

    surrender1 Newbie

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    People don't follow Christ for rewards. They do it because his words of peacemaking and mercy and forgiveness are truth and life...his words resonate as truth with their own hearts and enlivens them.
     
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  12. Hall

    Hall God is good

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    To believe in Universalism is to reject the true word of God, so as Christians we cannot accept this belief and here is why: (I think Gotquestions.org are on point with this answer)...

    Universalism is the belief that everyone will be saved. There are many people today who hold to universal salvation and believe that all people eventually end up in heaven. Perhaps it is the thought of men and women living a life of eternal torment in hell that causes some to reject the teaching of Scripture on this issue. For some it is an over-emphasis on the love and compassion of God—and the neglect of the righteousness and justice of God—that leads them to believe God will have mercy on every living soul. But the Scriptures do teach that some people will spend eternity in hell.

    First of all, the Bible is clear that unredeemed men will dwell forever in hell. Jesus’ own words confirm that the time spent in heaven for the redeemed will last as long as that of the unredeemed in hell. Matthew 25:46 says, “Then they [the unsaved] will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” According to this verse, the punishment of the unsaved is just as eternal as the life of the righteous. Some believe that those in hell will eventually cease to exist, but the Lord Himself confirms that it will last forever. Matthew 25:41 and Mark 9:44 describe hell as “eternal fire” and “unquenchable fire.”

    How does one avoid this unquenchable fire? Many people believe that all roads—all religions and beliefs—lead to heaven, or they consider that God is so full of love and mercy that He will allow all people into heaven. God is certainly full of love and mercy; it was these qualities that led Him to send His Son, Jesus Christ, to earth to die on the cross for us. Jesus Christ is the exclusive door that leads to an eternity in heaven. Acts 4:12 says, “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.” “There is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (1 Timothy 2:5). In John 14:6, Jesus says, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” John 3:16, “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” If we choose to reject God’s Son, we do not meet the requirements for salvation (John 3:16, 18, 36).

    With verses such as these, it becomes clear that universalism and universal salvation are unbiblical beliefs. Universalism directly contradicts what Scripture teaches. While many people accuse Christians of being intolerant and “exclusive,” it is important to remember that these are the words of Christ Himself. Christians did not develop these ideas on their own; Christians are simply stating what the Lord has already said. People choose to reject the message because they do not want to face up to their sin and admit that they need the Lord to save them. To say that those who reject God’s provision of salvation through His Son will be saved is to belittle the holiness and justice of God and negate the need of Jesus’ sacrifice on our behalf.
     
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  13. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Something is wrong here. You say that it would be against his nature or his eternal plan to save people from horrors in this life but, also, that he simply must do that in the afterlife...in order to be true to himself.

    Huh?
     
  14. Hall

    Hall God is good

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    I'm glad to hear that, I wasn't sure if you were a Christian but at least you are on the right track.
     
  15. Shempster

    Shempster ImJustMe Supporter

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    Thats the 6 million dollar question. It would be rather presumptuous of me to tell you God would and will annihilate anyone. There are passages that sure look that way.
    Now on to His character...no, annihilation would not fit His character from my perspective.
     
  16. GirdYourLoins

    GirdYourLoins Well-Known Member

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    I believe that we are created in Gods image and part of that is to be liked and loved because people want to like and love us, not because they have been forced to. He gave us free will and dominion over the earth and it is how we use that free will that determines our salvation.

    I think the unforgivable sin is to reject God when you have an understanding of who/what you are rejecting. I always remember once as a kid my dad saying he hated and despised God. He had chosen to reject God and turn against Him. He was a horrible violent and vindictive man who died before I was saved but I have been able to forgive. I have had to accept that I believe he had rejected God and would therefore be judged on who he was and I have no doubt he is in hell as he chose in his lifetime to reject God.
     
  17. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    This is why we have the Bible--in order to know God's will so that we don't simply guess at it.
     
  18. The Brown Brink

    The Brown Brink Well-Known Member

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    With God, the possibilities are...endless...
     
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  19. SeventyOne

    SeventyOne Well-Known Member

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    Ok. You're obviously not in a position to have a discussion about it. You've already made up your mind, no matter how what you want to ignore along the way. I hope you aren't embracing this delusion because someone close to you died while lost. It won't help you or them.
     
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  20. GillDouglas

    GillDouglas Reformed Christian

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    With God, the possibilities have already been determined in eternity.
     
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