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Universalism: pros and cons

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SpiritDriven

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Shepgirl....you must look at the whole word of God...get the passage of scripture you speak of....

Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel only, and instructed the disciples not to go via the road of the Nations not even to Samaria teaching thus.

Because the Kingdom he was talking about was the Thousand year Kingdom on Earth...that will come to an end, then the next era of Gods plan for Man begins..
 
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Floatingaxe

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No. You must rightly divide the word of truth. The Millennial Kingdom is not what He was referring to. He was referring to His forever Kingdom, which includes and carries on from the Millenium. The only people who are added to the kingdom are the millions who do not fall away when Satan and his horde are temporarily let loose on them.

Get a good translation and a good teacher.
 
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shepsgirl

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How about He was providing a model for people just as He had done all throughout His life on this earth? And didn't He ask in the garden of Gethsemane that this cup be passed from Him? His request wasn't granted then.

"Father FORGIVE THEM, for they know not what they do!"

Care to explain?

Think the Father WON'T forgive them, upon His Son's request? Think they KNEW exactly what they were doing? Think Jesus KNEW EXACTLY what He was ASKING? Think He was LYING?
 
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SpiritDriven

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For ShepGirl....there are a lot of studies out there on the Web.... I chose this one because some people are so blessed with the Holy Spirit, that they themselves can show what Jesus was refering too, via an entertaining story.

The Story has the relavent scriptures every step of the way....a link below....enjoy, at the same time may you grow further in Wisdom and knowledge of Gods plan for man....

http://www.martinzender.com/Zenderature/huck_finn_explains_hell.htm
 
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Tkjjc

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How about He was providing a model for people just as He had done all throughout His life on this earth? And didn't He ask in the garden of Gethsemane that this cup be passed from Him? His request wasn't granted then.

Actually, He didn't ask. He stated that if it was the Father's will, that this cup may pass from Him. Exactly what I was saying, along with others here. God's Will, is the ONLY WILL. The only difference was, Jesus KNEW prior what the WILL WAS, and yet still asked, but not in a Way to Offend. Do YOU know the difference?

And He went a little beyond {them,} and fell on His face and prayed, saying, "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will."


 
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shepsgirl

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You seem like a very nice person and I mean that, but your talking to someone who trusts that God oversaw the translation process. It makes no sense that a perfect God would allow the Book that tells us about Him to be errant. If it was just the translators then I would say yes it is fallible, but I trust that God was there too. If God can make this world then why can't He handle a translation process and put in His Book exactly what He wanted?

For ShepGirl....there are a lot of studies out there on the Web.... I chose this one because some people are so blessed with the Holy Spirit, that they themselves can show what Jesus was refering too, via an entertaining story.
The Story has the relavent scriptures every step of the way....a link below....enjoy, at the same time grow further in Wisdom and knowledge of Gods plan for man....

http://www.martinzender.com/Zenderature/huck_finn_explains_hell.htm
 
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shepsgirl

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Actually, He didn't ask. He stated that if it was the Father's will, that this cup may pass from Him. Exactly what I was saying, along with others here. God's Will, is the ONLY WILL. The only difference was, Jesus KNEW prior what the WILL WAS, and yet still asked, but not in a Way to Offend. Do YOU know the difference?

And He went a little beyond {them,} and fell on His face and prayed, saying, "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will."

And as other posters have said God has more than one will. Does He will that people are murdered every day? Does He will it when I disobey Him? Does He will it when a man beats his wife and children?

I'm sorry if my posts have offended you or anyone else, but I will stand by what is in the Bible. Questions seem like the best way to go when you are trying to make a point and you want the other person to think about what you are saying.
 
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Tkjjc

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Actually, I stated that right. I was responding to Him asking that the cup be passed. He didn't ask that, He asked "if it is possible", and then the statement: Let this cup pass from me. It was a request, but only at Father's will, not His, but "if it is possible?".

And He went a little beyond {them,} and fell on His face and prayed, saying, "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will."
 
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Tavita

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And as other posters have said God has more than one will.

I've been hearing about this a lot in these threads, that God has more than one will... like there's His will, and a 'permissive' will, etc... where does this come from??
 
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Tavita

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I've been hearing about this a lot in these threads, that God has more than one will... like there's His will, and a 'permissive' will, etc... where does this come from??


So, can someone explain what the different wills of God are to me??
 
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SpiritDriven

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You seem like a very nice person and I mean that, but your talking to someone who trusts that God oversaw the translation process. It makes no sense that a perfect God would allow the Book that tells us about Him to be errant. If it was just the translators then I would say yes it is fallible, but I trust that God was there too. If God can make this world then why can't He handle a translation process and put in His Book exactly what He wanted?​


ShepGirl....perhaps the time is not yet...for you, we shall see.
You are most probably reading a Bible that is in the English Language....you are aware that Jesus spoke in Aramaic, and the New Testament was written in Greek.

Are you aware that 300 years after everybody who recorded the NT in Greek was dead, that the Original Greek was translated into Latin....then again later in History translated into English.

Did you know your English Bible speaks of things that last forever, and then mentions how those same things do not last forever ?

Ever see that Movie...Lost in Translation ?

If that is not enough to start you on your own search for the Truth in Gods word....then I dont know what will...

Peace​
 
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Floatingaxe

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ShepGirl....perhaps the time is not yet...for you, we shall see.
You are most probably reading a Bible that is in the English Language....you are aware that Jesus spoke in Aramaic, and the New Testament was written in Greek.

Are you aware that 300 years after everybody who recorded the NT in Greek was dead, that the Original Greek was translated into Latin....then again later in History translated into English.

Did you know your English Bible speaks of things that last forever, and then mentions how those same things do not last forever ?

Ever see that Movie...Lost in Translation ?

If that is not enough to start you on your own search for the Truth in Gods word....then I dont know what will...

Peace

There is nothing wrong with the Bibles that are written in english People are reading them, getting saved and growing in God.

Poor opinions on the English translations are based on lack of faith in a God that foresees all things and governs all things, making sure that the English-speaking world receives His truth.

I trust God to have done that, because He is MY FATHER, and He loves me, and He speaks to me through every word of the Scriptures. It is Satan who sows seeds of doubt. It is a wedge that is being forced into the unity of the Body of Christ. I reject it--totally.

My God is able.
 
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Tkjjc

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Would you not say that God is Father to ALL, including little old me? You say that He Loves you, but is that to say He Loves others less? My God is the God of Unconditional Love. He is there when we hurt, when we cry, when we laugh, when we love, when we stumble, when we rise. My God Loves us so much, He has given us His Son to reconcile this Love, and to show us how much He Loves US BACK! I am sure sorry you cannot see this, nor feel this. Does it matter what you do? Does it matter, as far as Love is concerned? No, I do not believe God is happy with all our decisions, at times, but it is ALL according to His will, and His Divine Plan. Do you disagree with me?

See, I CAN answer the questions concerning the things which strike at men's hearts, and morals. Things like murder, abortion, stealing, "abnormal sexuality", and ALL the other things which I am positive He DOES NOT LIKE THEM TO DO. But is it their choice? Of course it is. But the better question would be: Is it part of the OVERALL DIVINE PLAN, or is God NOT in CONTROL? I refuse to believe He is not in total ABSOLUTE CONTROL. Otherwise, "thy will be done" is of little meaning. Most people cannot see past the offense to see this plan, but we have thousands of years of knowledge to see it in action. Every little thing recorded for the bad, and the good was part of the overall Divine Plan.

Some people think they have the answers, and some do. Some think their way is SO right, yet they are blinded by the simplest of explanations, so they cannot see past that point. For me the Bible makes absolute sense, and this isn't for MY doctrine, or anyone elses for that matter. God is LOVE. For this to be absolute, and for God to be ABSOLUTE, there is a Fatherly principle which must be applied, and it is, repeatedly so. If God IS the Father of ALL, that would mean that God has created our souls from HIM ALONE. This is scriptural. It also says that these souls return to him.

It also says that He is LOVE. Love is the direct opposite of HATE. If God was HATE, then your doctrine makes perfect sense, as then we are subjected to a standard by which only ONE MAN was able to keep. For us to make it to the promised land, we must ALL LIVE up to that very same standard. That to me isn't Grace, that is works. Who can live up to that? That is setting a person up to fail, but only in THEIR MINDS, for in God, we cannot fail, otherwise HE HAS FAILED. Otherwise NOT ALL can be reconciled BACK to Him. And then Jesus's Blood DID NOT save the world, and He failed.


I show others my faith, by my works, because of the Grace given me by Jesus and Father. I don't do this to show how great I am, but to show how great He is, and how much He loves us all. Not that I should boast, to paraphrase, but that is a fact.

Why would anyone want to be a stumbling block of hate, to trip up the love of God? How many others do the same thing, thinking their actions are out of Love, but do it with that fire which proceeds out of their mouths? Do a simple study on what "water" "seas" "earth" "heavens" "wilderness" "forests" "vines" "tree" "branch" that are in prophecy. Then you might see a "lake". Then do a study on "fire" and then you can see where this fire originates. How it IS NOT what goes into a man that defiles him, but that fire which proceeds out of a man. That TONGUE which causes others to stumble, and not see the Love that God has for everyone.

Are you fortunate that you are Called out? Like I said, of course you are. That is to His glory that you were, in order to do His will. Just remember, that it isn't YOUR WILL.

Am I absolutely positive that my beliefs are 100% accurate? Absolutely not. But I can say this with the most sincerest of hearts. God is ABSOLUTE LOVE. As Absolute as there can be. The holiest of ALL Holies. The LOVE of ALL Loves. There is NONE that can compare, nor will there ever be. My God rules, and I am proud to call Him MY GOD. I am proud to serve under His son the King of Kings. I spread the message of Love, for the world to see it, and feel it.

Shouldn't we all be doing the same, if we are called? Wouldn't it be a much nicer place to live, if ALL of God's Creation felt the same LOVE towards one another, and not just pointed out their faults to them?

I have ALWAYS wondered what it was that Jesus wrote in the sand, standing between that woman and those Pharisees. It sure must have been powerful stuff for them to just walk away. Or maybe the "cast the first stone" was what did it. Still, i wonder....


 
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Tkjjc

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Helo Tkjjc....

You seek to soften hearts that where predestined to turn to Stone first...then crack and break....

You will not succeed you are up against God....who is creating the hardness in them....rememeber he hardens whom he desires and shows mercy to whom he desires.

Pride always preceeds a fall...great will be their fall.

I know, but I feel so strongly about how much God Loves us ALL. Sometimes I don't always express it the way I want to in words, but just maybe, some will seek God out, call on Him, asking to be called out. We never know why we type the things that we do, but God knows ALL.

My heart was hardened by pride for so many years, and it just took a small part of God's Love to smash it to pieces, by Listening to Him. Searching Him out! I found, because I was seeking. He knew I would, but it was in His Time, not mine. He called when He was ready, and I was willing. A Glorious God we serve, isn't He?

After all, it is ALL His Plan.
 
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