Universalism: pros and cons

[Floatingaxe]

Pray, when you point the finger, it is in the right way with the right knowledge.

No one's pointing fingers except Christians pointing to the Truth in Christ and His word, not reading something they want to see into it.

Take a look at yourself.

 

[Tkjjc]

No one's pointing fingers except Christians pointing to the Truth in Christ and His word, not reading something they want to see into it.

Take a look at yourself.

Don't need to. I prayed about this after I came out of "her". Shame others don't do the same, but ALL will SEE, and ALL will HEAR, and EVERY KNEE WILL BOW. This it does say!

 

[Joykins]

Now that you've nailed that down, what do you do with it? Heresy still gets one a visit to the Great White Throne.

No. Being a person gets you a visit to the Great White Throne.

Heresy is man-made stuff. God knows the heart.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Don't need to. I prayed about this after I came out of "her". Shame others don't do the same, but ALL will SEE, and ALL will HEAR, and EVERY KNEE WILL BOW. This it does say!

Who is "her"? The Church of Jesus Christ? For shame.

Yes, every knee will bow! Not every knee will be one in gratitude of Jesus' blood. For those knees will come and bend before the firece God of wrath in horrified acknowledgement of the Saviour and Lord they had rejected, who paid the price for their sin, but they never allowed that debt to be paid--and God will extract that price from them...in Hell.

This takes place a millenium after the Church will have already enjoyed Her reward! No more rewards are given at the GWT Judgement.

Read the Word with an open heart. Know what God is saying to you, instead of what you wish He would be saying to you.

If you deny this horrific scenario that is about to come, you do harm, in that you lack the sense of urgency that Jesus had for humanity, and that He passed on to His apostles and his hundreds of disciples at His ascension. How dare anyone preach another version of what God has clearly warned us about!

My God, my God! I can hardly contain my anger at the affrontery of Universalists to preach error and heresy to the unbelieving world, and those weak believers alike, making them as crooked in their thinking as they are themselves!

 

[Floatingaxe]

No. Being a person gets you a visit to the Great White Throne.

Heresy is man-made stuff. God knows the heart.

The Great White Throne Judgment is only for those who are not of Christ.

 

[icedtea]

The Great White Throne Judgment is only for those who are not of Christ.

Thats true!

 

[Tkjjc]

Who is "her"? The Church of Jesus Christ? For shame.

Yes, every knee will bow! Not every knee will be one in gratitude of Jesus' blood. For those knees will come and bend before the firece God of wrath in horrified acknowledgement of the Saviour and Lord they had rejected, who paid the price for their sin, but they never alowed that debt to be paid--and God will extract that price from them...in Hell.

This takes place a millenium after the Church will have already enjoyed Her reward! No more rewards are given at the GWT Judgement.

Read the Word with an open heart. Know what God is saying to you, instead of what you wish He would be saying to you.

If you deny this horrific scenario that is about to come, you do harm, in that you lack the sense of urgency that Jesus had for humanity, and that He passed on to His apostles and his hundreds of disciples at His ascension. How dare anyone preach another version of what God has clearly warned us about!

My God, my God! I can hardly contain my anger at the affrontery of Universalists to preach error and heresy to the unbelieving world, and those weak believers alike, making them as crooked in their thinking as they are themselves!

Who is "her"? The Church of Jesus Christ? For shame.

There you go, putting more words into my mouth. Dang, you are getting good at this, fire upon fire. I came out of the man made doctrinal traps, that have been set in motion, going back to Eden. I trust God, not man.

Yes, every knee will bow! Not every knee will be one in gratitude of Jesus' blood. For those knees will come and bend before the firece God of wrath in horrified acknowledgement of the Saviour and Lord they had rejected, who paid the price for their sin, but they never alowed that debt to be paid--and God will extract that price from them...in Hell.

So by saying this, it is my understanding that you don't "think" God calls people to himself?

This takes place a millenium after the Church will have already enjoyed Her reward! No more rewards are given at the GWT Judgement.

Never said there was. Unless you think eternal life is a reward, but from what you say, even though those who do not believe will burn forever, these still have eternal life, right?

If you deny this horrific scenario that is about to come, you do harm, in that you lack the sense of urgency that Jesus had for humanity, and that He passed on to His apostles and his hundreds of disciples at His ascension. How dare anyone preach another version of what God has clearly warned us about!

That God is Love, and if you Love Him, you will keep His commandments, and not talk too much, so that you don't fall trap into judging one another, so you won't be judged according to that standard? Yep, got it, believe it, and live it. That Jesus's blood saves the world, and you don't want to fall trap into believing lies, and to remember your FIRST LOVE? Yep, got that, too.

My God, my God! I can hardly contain my anger at the affrontery of Universalists to preach error and heresy to the unbelieving world, and those weak believers alike, making them as crooked in their thinking as they are themselves!

I don't get angry at people who preach your brand of hell fire and damnation. I grew up in that theocratical nightmare. Hopefully as more come into the truth about God, and realize the Love He has shown humanity, the more they will draw close to Him, and follow His ways. But of course, this is only according to His Will, not yours or anyone else.

 

[Floatingaxe]

There you go, putting more words into my mouth. Dang, you are getting good at this, fire upon fire. I came out of the man made doctrinal traps, that have been set in motion, going back to Eden. I trust God, not man.

So by saying this, it is my understanding that you don't "think" God calls people to himself?

Never said there was. Unless you think eternal life is a reward, but from what you say, even though those who do not believe will burn forever, these still have eternal life, right?


That God is Love, and if you Love Him, you will keep His commandments, and not talk too much, so that you don't fall trap into judging one another, so you won't be judged according to that standard? Yep, got it, believe it, and live it. That Jesus's blood saves the world, and you don't want to fall trap into believing lies, and to remember your FIRST LOVE? Yep, got that, too.

I don't get angry at people who preach your brand of hell fire and damnation. I grew up in that theocratical nightmare. Hopefully as more come into the truth about God, and realize the Love He has shown humanity, the more they will draw close to Him, and follow His ways. But of course, this is only according to His Will, not yours or anyone else.

You actually detract from the GREAT UNFATHOMABLE LOVE of God in Christ Jesus by telling the world that His sacrifice wasn't enough! You say that His blood spilled for our sake isn't the saving element that God says it is. You make God a liar by your "lovey dovey" vision of who God is NOT.

You minimize and deflect from the blood of the Lamb. JESUS CHRIST is enough! JESUS CHRIST is the DOOR! He alone is the WAY to heaven. Refuse Him and die. He will not drag people to heaven kicking and screaming! He gives us a choice and NOT ALL CHOOSE HIM!

Get over it with your bleeding heart theology which is from the pit of hell itself.

God is the God of wrath, which He is saving up for that great day of wrath where He will pour it out on all those who have lived to hate Him, either deliberately or passively.

Heaven has an opposite. God tells us. Stop making God a liar.

Hebrews 10
31 It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God....
37-39 For in just a little while,
the Coming One will come and not delay.
38 And my righteous ones will live by faith.
But I will take no pleasure in anyone who turns away.”
39 But we are not like those who turn away from God to their own destruction. We are the faithful ones, whose souls will be saved.

 

[Tavita]

You actually detract from the GREAT UNFATHOMABLE LOVE of God in Christ Jesus by telling the world that His sacrifice wasn't enough! You say that His blood spilled for our sake isn't the saving element that God says it is. You make God a liar by your "lovey dovey" vision of who God is NOT.

You minimize and deflect from the blood of the Lamb. JESUS CHRIST is enough! JESUS CHRIST is the DOOR! He alone is the WAY to heaven. Refuse Him and die. He will not drag people to heaven kicking and screaming! He gives us a choice and NOT ALL CHOOSE HIM!

Get over it with your bleeding heart theology which is from the pit of hell itself.

God is the God of wrath, which He is saving up for that great day of wrath where He will pour it out on all those who have lived to hate Him, either deliberately or passively.

Heaven has an opposite. God tells us. Stop making God a liar.

Hebrews 10
31 It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God....
37-39 For in just a little while,
the Coming One will come and not delay.
38 And my righteous ones will live by faith.
But I will take no pleasure in anyone who turns away.”
39 But we are not like those who turn away from God to their own destruction. We are the faithful ones, whose souls will be saved.

I'm so sorry you don't understand us. Because it's so obvious you don't understand our hearts or the message. You spit venom at us like we are of the devil or something.

I hope and pray one day you will understand, if not the message, then our hearts... God bless you, FloatingAxe..

 

[Floatingaxe]

I'm so sorry you don't understand us. Because it's so obvious you don't understand our hearts or the message. You spit venom at us like we are of the devil or something.

I hope and pray one day you will understand, if not the message, then our hearts... God bless you, FloatingAxe..

The exact truth is that I DO understand you. I know that you are looking at God with human hearts, hearts of clay, and you just cannot fathom how God who IS LOVE can actually contain such fierce, unbending wrath. Well He does. The same God who is LOVE is also the God who HATES sin. He is a whole, complete embodiment of ALL characteristics in their ultimate and perfect form.

A HOLY GOD cannot stand to have sin in His presence. He WILL NOT abide it and He CANNOT abide it.

You must accept His whole word and not only portions of it that your weak stomachs cannot comprehend. Try comprehending how Jesus the perfect Lamb was mutilated and beaten beyond recognition for you personally and then say that it wasn't enough! It was more than enough! Those who reject the bleeding mass who once was the man Jesus will be rejected by His Father who loves Him and will not allow anyone to refuse Him and LIVE.

The doctrine of Universalism in all its forms is indeed a doctrine of demons crafted for those who are sensitive to the harsher aspects of God's truth and don't want to face them or examine them, least of all embrace them! It appeases their fear and distaste of the truth and the harsh reality that actual people they know will meet their eternal end in dire torment.

They don't realize that it is that very truth that Jesus tells us to get moving! Time is short! It should be spurring us on to reach the entire world for Jesus Christ!


Job 36:17
But you are obsessed with whether the godless will be judged.
Don’t worry, judgment and justice will be upheld.

 

[Tkjjc]

You actually detract from the GREAT UNFATHOMABLE LOVE of God in Christ Jesus by telling the world that His sacrifice wasn't enough! You say that His blood spilled for our sake isn't the saving element that God says it is. You make God a liar by your "lovey dovey" vision of who God is NOT.

You minimize and deflect from the blood of the Lamb. JESUS CHRIST is enough! JESUS CHRIST is the DOOR! He alone is the WAY to heaven. Refuse Him and die. He will not drag people to heaven kicking and screaming! He gioves us a choice and NOT ALL CHOOSE HIM!

Get over it with your bleeding heart theology which is from the pit of hell itself.

God is the God of wrath, which He is saving up for that great day of wrath where He will pour it out on all those who have lived to hate Him, either deliberately or passively.

Heaven has an opposite. God tells us. Stop making God a liar.

Hebrews 10
31 It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God....
37-39 For in just a little while,
the Coming One will come and not delay.
38 And my righteous ones will live by faith.
But I will take no pleasure in anyone who turns away.”
39 But we are not like those who turn away from God to their own destruction. We are the faithful ones, whose souls will be saved.

You actually detract from the GREAT UNFATHOMABLE LOVE of God in Christ Jesus by telling the world that His sacrifice wasn't enough!

Actually, that is you doing this, not me. You say there is MORE to do. I say it HAS BEEN DONE!

You say that His blood spilled for our sake isn't the saving element that God says it is.

Again, you say this isn't enough, and there is MORE WE HAVE TO DO!

You make God a liar by your "lovey dovey" vision of who God is NOT.

Really? That ISN'T who God is? Let us see who God is, OK?

Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.
The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.
In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son {to be} the propitiation for our sins.
No one has seen God at any time; if we love one another, God abides in us, and His love is perfected in us.
We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him
If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.
nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

You minimize and deflect from the blood of the Lamb. JESUS CHRIST is enough!

Actually, again that would not be me. I say that Jesus IS ENOUGH, and that it is FINISHED, and there is nothing on earth you can do to change that.

JESUS CHRIST is the DOOR! He alone is the WAY to heaven.

Actually, as I previously stated and as it is stated in the Word, He is the Way INTO the City of God. There WILL BE those on the outside, though.

Get over it with your bleeding heart theology which is from the pit of hell itself.

Wow, such animosity from a Christian. You ok? Need a hug?

God is the God of wrath, which He is saving up for that great day of wrath where He will pour it out on all those who have lived to hate Him, either deliberately or passively.

Actually, God is Love, as stated from the verses I just quoted. Love Him and Keep His Commandments, and Love your fellow man. Simple enough, sister.

Heaven has an opposite. God tells us. Stop making God a liar.

Actually we get a new earth. There is the City of God, and the new earth. What is the opposite of earth? And who is calling God a liar now? Sure isn't me, as I would not do that.

Hebrews 10
31 It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God....
37-39 For in just a little while,
the Coming One will come and not delay.
38 And my righteous ones will live by faith.
But I will take no pleasure in anyone who turns away.”
39 But we are not like those who turn away from God to their own destruction. We are the faithful ones, whose souls will be saved.

To turn away, means you have to turn away from your FIRST LOVE. Who has done this? Sure as hell isn't me. What of those who haven't been turned towards the Light? Or try to make God out to be a hateful God? That would be the DIRECT opposite of Love now, wouldn't it? Sure would hate to be that person, come the day of judgment.

 

[SpiritDriven]

The reality of Gods great plan of Salvation is described in Scripture....

You see Jesus will not reign forever....he will reign so well that he will do away with the need for it....every knee will bow to Jesus every tounge above the Earth On the Earth and under the Earth will confess Jesus is Lord...

That is when Jesus hands the Kingdom over to the Father so that God can be all in All.

Arguements against Gods great plan of Salvation.....

see that sentance immediatly above, can you see how ludicrouse that sounds in light of the over whelming Power and Will of God....who will get...his...way for all.


Peace

 

[Floatingaxe]

Yes, there is more to do: believe and obey. In this life and not after. We have a part to play in our own salvation.

Your scriptures are all fine and good, but you are blind to God's FULL NATURE. You neglect all of who God is when you deny Him as righteous as well as fierce Judge.

A good judge to us is NOT a judge who allows a child killer loose on the world. Why do you make Him out to be the same unjust Judge?

 

[Floatingaxe]

The reality of Gods great plan of Salvation is described in Scripture....

You see Jesus will not reign forever....he will reign so well that he will do away with the need for it....every knee will bow to Jesus every tounge above the Earth On the Earth and under the Earth will confess Jesus is Lord...

That is when Jesus hands the Kingdom over to the Father so that God can be all in All.

Arguements against Gods great plan of Salvation.....

see that sentance immediatly above, can you see how ludicrouse that sounds in light of the over whelming Power and Will of God....who will get...his...way for all.


Peace

You sound like a broken record with that same scripture that you desperately misinterpret and do not comprehend correctly.

You have been refuted about it before, but you are closed to the truth and that is that.

 

[SpiritDriven]

The Sin consequences of Child Killing was paid in full at the Cross....along with all the other horrible Sins men commit.....

 

[Floatingaxe]

The Sin consequences of Child Killing was paid in full at the Cross....along with all the other horrible Sins men commit.....

Paid but not received by the unrepentant ones. The blood must be APPLIED! Only by repentance can one receive forgiveness. Do not mock Jesus Christ further by denying this.

The Egyptians didn't get out alive when the blood was applied PROPERLY as God directed His people.

 

[icedtea]

The Sin consequences of Child Killing was paid in full at the Cross....along with all the other horrible Sins men commit.....

So no one can ever be found guilty of them even when they do not repent?

 

[Tavita]

The exact truth is that I DO understand you. I know that you are looking at God with human hearts, hearts of clay, and you just cannot fathom how God who IS LOVE can actually contain such fierce, unbending wrath. Well He does. The same God who is LOVE is also the God who HATES sin. He is a whole, complete embodiment of ALL characteristics in their ultimate and perfect form.

A HOLY GOD cannot stand to have sin in His presence. He WILL NOT abide it and He CANNOT abide it.

You must accept His whole word and not only portions of it that your weak stomachs cannot comprehend. Try comprehending how Jesus the perfect Lamb was mutilated and beaten beyond recognition for you personally and then say that it wasn't enough! It was more than enough! Those who reject the bleeding mass who once was the man Jesus will be rejected by His Father who loves Him and will not allow anyone to refuse Him and LIVE.

The doctrine of Universalism in all its forms is indeed a doctrine of demons crafted for those who are sensitive to the harsher aspects of God's truth and don't want to face them or examine them, least of all embrace them! It appeases their fear and distaste of the truth and the harsh reality that actual people they know will meet their eternal end in dire torment.

They don't realize that it is that very truth that Jesus tells us to get moving! Time is short! It should be spurring us on to reach the entire world for Jesus Christ!


Job 36:17
But you are obsessed with whether the godless will be judged.
Don’t worry, judgment and justice will be upheld.

That all sounds so wonderful and spiritual and is the stuff I use to dish out too once, but no, you think you understand us and the message, but you don't understand at all.

 

[Floatingaxe]

If we witnessed a milquetoasty judge administer justice in this society like you think God should, we'd string him up and

him!

 

[SpiritDriven]

So no one can ever be found guilty of them even when they do not repent?

You will note some murderers come to Christ just before being executed......

Some Laugh and spit in the face of the preacher at the Gallows......

Nither ends up in a non existant hell by the time of the Consumation of Gods plan.....because the Sin debt of all human kind is paid in full at the Cross already.

The Murderer who spat in the preachers face still gets to heaven....but via a different and longer route that involves affliction punishment that brings him to repentance then he is granted mercy...DEATH to his Sins in the Lake of Fire.

He re appears later on when God declares..LO! New am I making all....he is called back into existance in Newness of Mind Glorified immortal body and Spirit.

Why...because there is one God and one mediator between God and Man, the Man Christ Jesus who gave himself as a ransom for all (and here is the important part) the testimony in its own eras.

This is not the only era of man when men will repent!