Unity Between Catholic and Protestant Christians

[SkyWriting]

In my opinion, most Protestants, Pentecostals, and Charismatics wouldn't dream in a million years to even consider converting to Catholicism, so I cannot see any possibility of any form of unity between Catholics and Protestants. They are as totally different as chalk and cheese.

You likely have a nonbeliever in your immediate family. So there is an infinitely larger and critical gap there than between any two denominations.

Anyone who even notes denominational differences is missing the big picture.

Romans 13:10
Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

 

[prodromos]

I have a feeling that God detests, abhors, this attitude of superiority :-(.

Just as well we hold no such attitude.
We know salvation is found in the Orthodox Church which has held fast to the teaching handed down by the Apostles, but we do not judge those outside to be damned. Only God will judge, and God can save any whom He wills, and I have no doubt that He does.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I have a question:

How can Catholics and Protestants have true unity while the Catholic church believes it is the only true church and that to be fully accepted as a true Christian a Protestant must convert to Catholicism, accept the Pope as their spiritual leader, and subscribe to Catholic doctrine and theology?

This issue came up on the Catholic forum, and I felt quite limited in discussing this because that forum is protected for Catholic believers. This is why I am bringing up the question in a more appropriate forum where those who are concerned about this can have a free discussion about the issues.

In my opinion, most Protestants, Pentecostals, and Charismatics wouldn't dream in a million years to even consider converting to Catholicism, so I cannot see any possibility of any form of unity between Catholics and Protestants. They are as totally different as chalk and cheese.

I feel no need for unity with the rcc.. no need whatsoever.

God's church consists of God's people, and they are one in Christ Jesus. There is unity for them.

It's not denominational. It's unity in Christ...

I have no need to be unified with the world or the things of it, because I am in Christ. The RCC is world. Christ is Christ.

 

[Dave L]

As a knowledgeable, non-Catholic, non-protestant familiar with the subject matter, I strongly recommend you begin by finding out for yourself what the Catholic Church is, rather than what people erroneously assume it to be it might help. It would be a good place to start anyway.

If you put Catholics as the extreme on one end and historic protestants as the extreme on the other, some groups are closer to the Catholics than they are the Protestants. All "free will" groups lean towards Catholicism more so than historic Protestantism. I think of Luther's book Bondage of the Will. And the Augustinianism of the Reformers who held his same views.

 

[royal priest]

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[DamianWarS]

I have a question:

How can Catholics and Protestants have true unity while the Catholic church believes it is the only true church and that to be fully accepted as a true Christian a Protestant must convert to Catholicism, accept the Pope as their spiritual leader, and subscribe to Catholic doctrine and theology?

This issue came up on the Catholic forum, and I felt quite limited in discussing this because that forum is protected for Catholic believers. This is why I am bringing up the question in a more appropriate forum where those who are concerned about this can have a free discussion about the issues.

In my opinion, most Protestants, Pentecostals, and Charismatics wouldn't dream in a million years to even consider converting to Catholicism, so I cannot see any possibility of any form of unity between Catholics and Protestants. They are as totally different as chalk and cheese.

It seems a bit of a silly argument especially when the logic of it would call all non-catholics not Christians. Implicitly the rules of CF would even disagree with this. So Catholics, in order to participate in forums like this, must ignore where this logic points and make up other definitions. Sort of like the charismatic version of are you a "Spirit-filled" Christian.

 

[Redwingfan9]

There will never be unity so long as the counsel of trent is still in force within the papacy

 

[Chris V++]

Perspective Summary for Clarity: Does this look right?

Catholic Perspective: Orthodox are Ok now but should make more of an effort to reunite. Mostly that protestants are 'separated brethren' who may have to work more things out in purgatory. Some old school conservatives disagree. Being 'born again' is a part of baptism (including babies.) Purgatory exists. No OSAS belief.

Protestant Perspective: Ranges from the Pope is the anti Christ and Catholics are deceived to there are true Christians in every denomination and all denominations are just different expressions of the same faith or members of a unified body. They have either neither heard of Orthodox (except for that CBS 60 Minutes documentary about Athos, another about the Bishop of Constantinople/ Istanbul, and that Seinfeld Episode where George converts to court a Latvian Orthodox love interest) or they assume Catholics and Orthodox are the same. Most agree in a 'born again.' concept. Not all accept OSAS. No purgatory.

Orthodox Perspective: There is no salvation outside the Orthodox Church. We don't cast our pearls before dogs (which is everyone else.) But we can't limit how the Holy Spirit might work. Sanctification and regeneration are ongoing. There is no 'born again' moment the way protestants claim to understand it. OSAS is a lie. NO purgatory. Some believe in Aerial Toll Houses but there seems to be an argument in Orthodoxy about whether or not aerial toll houses are fact or fantasy. (Aerial Toll Houses not the same thing as purgatory.)

 

[Anthony2019]

Unity will only happen when we stop looking at what needs to be changed externally, but instead spend our time focusing on what needs to be changed internally.

We may recite the Hail Mary prayer, pray the rosary, attend church every week, sing in the music group, preach the gospel, witness signs and wonders and even experience great blessing, but if we ourselves do not bear fruit, then like withered branches we risk being cut down and thrown into the fire. Not everyone who says Lord Lord will be entering the kingdom. It is a very sobering warning for us all - myself included.

If we do not have charity, love, peace, forbearance, faithfulness, gentleness and self control, then instead of pointing the finger at others, perhaps we should spending more time on our knees in repentance and pleading to Christ for his mercy.

Whether we are Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant, whether we subscribe to sola scriptura or embrace tradition, it is only when we allow ourselves to be totally consumed with the love of Christ and show the fruits of the Spirit, that we will be able to effectively reach out to others and bring them into the kingdom.

 

[GrahamPhilippines]

I did a paper in Catholic theology as part of my M.Div., so I have a good appreciation of it. I know one thing for sure - that it believes it is the only true church that has descended from the first Apostles and that every other church is a breakaway from it.

I can go into any other church and fully participate in the Lord's supper, or the Eucharist, but not in a Catholic church. I watched the priest's video on the Catholic forum, and he was quite clear that it has been from right from the start a person had to be fully initiated into the church before he or she can participate in the Eucharist. Because the Catholic church believes that it is the true church right from that time, anyone outside of it has to be initiated into it before they can be accepted as being truly qualified to participate in what is at the centre of the Christian church.

Therefore it is not difficult to see that unless one converts to Catholicism and be fully initiated into it through the set ritual of initiation (as fully described to me by my wife who was educated Catholic) then I am not accepted as a true Christian able to participate in the Catholic Eucharist.

Therefore, I don't see any basis for true unity between Protestants and Catholics because they have fundamental differences in their doctrines and the way they severally worship God.

I fully took part in Eucharist at a Catholic church and the priest knew I was not Catholic

 

[FineLinen]

Unity will only happen when we stop looking at what needs to be changed externally, but instead spend our time focusing on what needs to be changed internally.

We may recite the Hail Mary prayer, pray the rosary, attend church every week, sing in the music group, preach the gospel, witness signs and wonders and even experience great blessing, but if we ourselves do not bear fruit, then like withered branches we risk being cut down and thrown into the fire. Not everyone who says Lord Lord will be entering the kingdom. It is a very sobering warning for us all - myself included.

If we do not have charity, love, peace, forbearance, faithfulness, gentleness and self control, then instead of pointing the finger at others, perhaps we should spending more time on our knees in repentance and pleading to Christ for his mercy.

Whether we are Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant, whether we subscribe to sola scriptura or embrace tradition, it is only when we allow ourselves to be totally consumed with the love of Christ and show the fruits of the Spirit, that we will be able to effectively reach out to others and bring them into the kingdom.

Dear Anthony: This is a wonderful post!

 

[Steve97]

This vid runs 17 minutes.

 

[Albion]

I have a question:

How can Catholics and Protestants have true unity while the Catholic church believes it is the only true church and that to be fully accepted as a true Christian a Protestant must convert to Catholicism, accept the Pope as their spiritual leader, and subscribe to Catholic doctrine and theology?

Answer: they cannot. The most that could be achieved would be mutual respect at a certain level and, I suppose, join efforts on some projects.

This issue came up on the Catholic forum, and I felt quite limited in discussing this because that forum is protected for Catholic believers.

Unfortunate, isn't it? Some of the topics there and the posters over there are quite interesting and not particularly sharp-edged...but still we are flatly prohibited from participating and are even constantly warned that it is a "Catholics only" forum.

 

[All4Christ]

It is a real shame that the position of the Orthodox church is that those outside of their particular faith are detestable, outcast dogs who are just feeding on garbage; and that would include people of about every other Protestant, Pentecostal, and Charismatic church!

To set the record straight, and I hope you know this from previous discussions in Traditional Theology, we do not believe that “those outside of their particular faith are detestable, outcast dogs who are just feeding on garbage; and that would include people of about every other Protestant, Pentecostal, and Charismatic church!”

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I have a question:

How can Catholics and Protestants have true unity while the Catholic church believes it is the only true church and that to be fully accepted as a true Christian a Protestant must convert to Catholicism, accept the Pope as their spiritual leader, and subscribe to Catholic doctrine and theology?

This issue came up on the Catholic forum, and I felt quite limited in discussing this because that forum is protected for Catholic believers. This is why I am bringing up the question in a more appropriate forum where those who are concerned about this can have a free discussion about the issues.

In my opinion, most Protestants, Pentecostals, and Charismatics wouldn't dream in a million years to even consider converting to Catholicism, so I cannot see any possibility of any form of unity between Catholics and Protestants. They are as totally different as chalk and cheese.

I found Jesus through the Catholic church when I was in second grade. I was in the pew waiting for my turn to enter the confessional for the first time. I was in second grade. I was so frightened. I reached out to Jesus to help me and He did. He made me secure in the knowledge that my sins were already forgiven. When I finally entered the confessional, it was a meaningless exercise as I knew the power to forgive was not on the other side of the sliding door.
I tell this story because no matter where we worship, Jesus Christ of Nazareth is with those who believe in Him. Anything added to that relationship is merely an obstacle to HIM.
Blessings

 

[Light of the East]

see this is the exclusive elitist stuff that makes unity difficult. Orthodox think they own communion. Protestants have been baptized into the church and are saved by grace through faith. Those verses don’t apply to Protestants, they refer to unbelievers or believers in sin. Imagine the hubris to think that only your church denomination could administer the Lord’s supper. Wow

You really do not understand the principles of the Covenant of God (aka The New Covenant). Ray Sutton - a Protestant Calvinist - wrote a very good (albeit erroneous in some places) book regarding the Covenant. Where it is good is that it clearly defines the five working principles that make up a covenant relatioship.

1. Transcendence - the greater offers covenant to the lesser
2. Hierarchy - who's in charge here?
3. Ethics - the rules (or law) of the covenant
4. O - Oaths and Sanctions (vows taken to enter the covenant with consequences for breaking those vows)
5. Succession - the covenant passes from generation to generation.

In the covenant organization called "The Church," Christ is the head of the Church. In being this, He delegates His power and authority to certain men. In the beginning, these were the Apostles. No other believer (of the thousands who came to believe on Him) had the power the Apostles had. None of them had the authority that Christ gave to them ("Whosoever's sins you remit, they are remitted).

In principle five, we see the reality of apostolic succession. The power and authority of the Apostles, given to the bishops of the Church, is passed down by the "laying on of hands" (mentioned by St. Paul in his letter to Timothy).

Thus, Protestants DO NOT HAVE a Eucharist. This is because they broke the chain of succession from the apostolic faith when they left the Church of Rome (despite Her errors, Rome is still an apostolic Church with apostolic succession)

So yes, only those who are in the line of succession (Principle Five) and who have been given authority (Principle Two) are able to pronounce the words of consecration and have the bread and wine become the Eucharist, the true Body and Blood of Christ.

And while I am at it - the Eucharist is called "Holy Communion." Communion has been called "Common Union," that is, it is a symbol that we share the same belief in the same Christ and the same one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. Now if you come to the table of the Lord and you don't hold to things like baptism for the forgiveness of sins, the Seven Sacraments, etc. then are you really in common union?

NO!!!

Why then would you want to show the world that you believe in what we believe (i.e. hold to a common union of belief) by partaking of the symbol of that union, when you do not???? This is why the Orthodox do not allow anyone but Orthodox to the Lord's Table, not even Roman Catholics, who are an apostolic succession Church. There is no point of common union, and in fact, there is more disunion than union.

You want to come to the Lord's Table. Repent of the falsehoods and man-made theology of Protestantism and join the Orthodox Church. The same goes for Roman Catholics. Sorry, but until you jettison things like The Immaculate Conception, Purgatory, The Treasury of Merit, Indulgences, Papal Infallibility, Papal Supremacy, etc, and return to the beliefs of the Early Fathers, we have very little in common other than a lineage back to the Apostles.

 

[Light of the East]

I agree, and I would add that there is no Apostolic succession, because the last Apostle died without a successor. The doctrine of Apostolic succession is a Catholic one in which Peter was supposed to be the first Pope and his successors carried on the Apostolic role. Of course, there is no historical evidence that Peter was ever a bishop of Rome. Anyway, during his time, the bishop of Rome did not have the pre-eminence over the other regional bishops. That came well after Peter was martyred.

See my post on the Covenant of God. You have NO IDEA how a covenant works.
(Don't feel bad -99% of Christians are covenant ignorant, even covenantal Calvinists)

 

[Light of the East]

To set the record straight, and I hope you know this from previous discussions in Traditional Theology, we do not believe that “those outside of their particular faith are detestable, outcast dogs who are just feeding on garbage; and that would include people of about every other Protestant, Pentecostal, and Charismatic church!”

As His Emminence, Bishop Ware said "We know where the Church is, we just do not know where it is not."

What About the Non-Orthodox?: The Exclusive Claims of the Church | Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese

 

[Light of the East]

True faithful believers are those who confess and believe in Jesus Christ as their saviour and are baptised in the name of the Father, son and holy Spirit. They can find unity in the love of their saviour and in the breaking of the bread and drinking of the wine in remembrance of (having communion with) Him. Where there are two or three who confess His name as Lord they can share the bread and cup together regardless what Church they are from.

All praise to our Lord for unity.

Baloney, sir!

You have no idea what the Eucharist is. You have no understanding that it is a sign and symbol of unity in dogma and doctrine, of unity in belief and practice. To partake of a Lord's Supper in a church with which you disagree is to set forth a visible lie - i.e., that you are in union with them (communion - common union) when you are actually not.

 

[Albion]

Baloney, sir!

You have no idea what the Eucharist is. You have no understanding that it is a sign and symbol of unity in dogma and doctrine, of unity in belief and practice. To partake of a Lord's Supper in a church with which you disagree is to set forth a visible lie - i.e., that you are in union with them (communion - common union) when you are actually not.

Those people no doubt think that being baptized disciples of Christ is the gauge of that unity, not membership in any particular denomination.