United in error about God's commands, There is NO covenant with the gentiles anywhere in the bible!

[bugkiller]

bro, you said it well! Maybe some need to get a direct phone call from the Lord, to grasp the point.

Doubt that would work.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

What Jesus commanded was in perfect accordance with the law. John 15:10 says nothing about Jesus giving an alternate set of commands that was not in accord with what the Father had commanded.

Nope!

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

I think if Paul says anything that goes against keeping God's law, then we should throw it out as unscriptural, as the Bible instructs. The OT is what the authors of the NT used to validate their message and it is how we should validate any interpretation of the NT as well. Fortunately, with a proper understand of Paul, it doesn't need to come to that. As the Bible says he can be difficult to understand, but centuries of misinterpreting him through an anti-Torah lens has twisted it around so much that the truth of the Gospel now seems gibberish to some. I highly recommend this sermon series on Romans to help unpack Paul verse by verse:

http://rabbiyeshua.com/kehilat-store/audio-teachings

We've gone through Galatians also, but not all the sermons are posted.

Since you insist I'm thrilled to be among the ignorant.

bugkiller

 

[Soyeong]

Nope!

bugkiller

Next, explain why you think I'm wrong.

 

[bugkiller]

Next, explain why you think I'm wrong.

Jhn 15:10 should cover the point well enough.

bugkiller

 

[Soyeong]

Jhn 15:10 should cover the point well enough.

bugkiller

John 15:10 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.

Nothing there implies a different set of commandments. Jesus did nothing apart from the Father and wasn't doing his own thing that wasn't in accord with the Father.

 

[Frogster]

There is nothing wrong with being a Christian, but its just a title. The word Christian was only used 3 times in the bible and it was a derogatory term. They were called followers of the way back then, as Jesus didnt die a Jew and raise a Christian. What im saying is we need to be all one in Christ with the same beliefs that are backed by the bible, so we dont have the nonsense of gay Christians churches and other Christians pretty much doing every single thing the world does.

There is just too much separation now adays. The following all think what they believe is the truth, but all have issues
Catholics - Pope, many pagan symbols, and form of idolatry
Protestants - follows just about everything the Catholic church does, but stays away from things like the pope, mary worship, etc
SDA's - Ellen G White
COG- H Armstrong
Mormons - Joseph Smith
Jehovah Witness- Watchtower a
Jews - dont believe in Jesus
Messianic Jews &Messianic Hebrews- Talmuud ( Jews), many have too much hate towards Christians, deny virgin birth, or dont consider the NT as scripture

The whole derogatory thing is debated in Acts 11, but Paul surely acknowledged that he was a Christian in Acts 26, and Peter used the word in 1 Peter 4:16, and neither Peter or Paul used it in a derogatory manner.

 

[Frogster]

I have many times, but much of the rage against Christians seem to come from the Messianic Hebrews ive met. For some reason many Messianics Ive talked to dont seem to take Paul's letter seriously and just see them as commentary and not scripture. I know the big divide between messianics and christians come down to Sabbath vs Sunday, Sabbath Days vs Holidays, and Dietary Laws most of the time

It's true, some show open hostility, and say he was a false apostle. Not just the Hebrews though, even gentiles in the MJ movement.

 

[Steeno7]

I think if Paul says anything that goes against keeping God's law, then we should throw it out as unscriptural, as the Bible instructs. The OT is what the authors of the NT used to validate their message and it is how we should validate any interpretation of the NT as well. Fortunately, with a proper understand of Paul, it doesn't need to come to that. As the Bible says he can be difficult to understand, but centuries of misinterpreting him through an anti-Torah lens has twisted it around so much that the truth of the Gospel now seems gibberish to some.

No, what you write is gibberish because you continually try to work grace back around to remaining under the Law. Which is to try and make sense out of nonsense. You cannot mix what cannot be mixed, and when you try you end up with nothing but nonsensical gibberish.

ALL of the NT writers were writing from within the context of the New Covenant of Grace, and it will only be understood by looking at it in that same context. The end result of your failure to do so is that you consistently attempt to bring old covenant concepts and principles over into the new covenant. Which you can no more legitimately do, than you can retroactively apply new covenant concepts and principles back onto the old. You will never “get it” by looking through the lens of Law, it is an impossibility. As you show all too well.

 

[Frogster]

No, what you write is gibberish because you continually try to work grace back around to remaining under the Law. Which is to try and make sense out of nonsense. You cannot mix what cannot be mixed, and when you try you end up with nothing but nonsensical gibberish.

ALL of the NT writers were writing from within the context of the New Covenant of Grace, and it will only be understood by looking at it in that same context. The end result of your failure to do so is that you consistently attempt to bring old covenant concepts and principles over into the new covenant. Which you can no more legitimately do, than you can retroactively apply new covenant concepts and principles back onto the old. You will never “get it” by looking through the lens of Law, it is an impossibility. As you show all too well.

Yup, Hebrews 1:1 even shows that the OT people did not know about, they had limited info, what we have, grace! Yes, some people never promote faith, it is never in their posts, just law as the base.

 

[disciple1]

With all the back and forth about the Sabbath, Feast Days, and a few more topics that usually divide many on here, alot of people always resort to THE GENTILES AREN'T COMMANDED OR HAVE TO DO X,Y,Z.


There is no covenant anywhere in the entire bible made with the gentiles, The New Covenant was for Israel and the gentiles are grafted in. There is no such thing as rules for Jews that believe in Jesus and rules for gentiles that believe in Jesus. Its the same commands we keep, outside the one ones that cant be kept because they dont apply to you (i.e your not a king, priest, woman, etc)


Jeremiah 31:31-34 (NKJV)
A New Covenant
31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says theLord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Stop using Paul's writings out of context to prove points that are false.

Jesus, the disciples, and Paul all kept the dietary laws.
Jesus, the disciples, and Paul all kept the Sabbath.
Jesus, the disciples, and Paul all kept the Sabbath Days ( Passover, Pentecost, Tabernacles, etc)
Jesus, the disciples, and Paul all kept the laws of God and never abolished them the way modern Christianity does or say they arent needed.


Most of what we do now as Christians is out of tradition or misunderstanding of scriptures. While done with a good heart, many need to realize what is just passed down tradition done with good intentions and what is biblical.

So lets stop saying the Gentiles arent commanded to or dont have to do XYZ, because the gentiles are grafted int Israel when they are saved and have the same commands.

No one obeys the law it's purpose was to lead us to Christ.
Galatians chapter 3 verse 24,25,23
So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith now that faith has come we are no longer under the supervision of the law before this faith came we were held prisoners by the law locked up until Christ should be revealed.

 

[disciple1]

Nope!

bugkiller

Hebrews chapter 7
11. If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the law was given to the people), why was there still need for another priest to come--one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron?
12. For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law.


18. The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless

19. (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

Romans chapter 9 verses 30-Romans chapter 10 verse 4
What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone. As it is written: See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame. Brothers my heart's desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. For I can testify about them that they are Zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own they did not submit to God's righteousness, Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

 

[Frogster]

No one obeys the law it's purpose was to lead us to Christ.
Galatians chapter 3 verse 24,25,23
So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith now that faith has come we are no longer under the supervision of the law before this faith came we were held prisoners by the law locked up until Christ should be revealed.

Greetings, actually the "lead us to Christ" is not in the Greek, as the per the ESV, it means "until" Christ, which confirms 3:19, the law was "until " Christ".

 

[bugkiller]

John 15:10 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.

Nothing there implies a different set of commandments. Jesus did nothing apart from the Father and wasn't doing his own thing that wasn't in accord with the Father.

What? I've no idea what you're reading. There are plainly two different items in that verse when it comes to commandments. Jesus didn't say He kept His commandments.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

John 15:10 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.

Nothing there implies a different set of commandments. Jesus did nothing apart from the Father and wasn't doing his own thing that wasn't in accord with the Father.

What? I've no idea what you're reading. I read two very distinct items in the verse. Jesus didn't say He kept His (Jesus') commandments.

bugkiller

 

[Soyeong]

What? I've no idea what you're reading. There are plainly two different items I that verse when it comes to commandments. Jesus didn't say He kept His commandments.

bugkiller

The goal of a disciple was to become an imitation of their rabbi in action and in thought and Jesus's disciples were no different. Jesus taught how to follow the law both by word an example, and his example of obedience to the law was included in everything that he had taught his disciples as part of the Great Commission. In John 15:10 Jesus is likewise saying that his obedience to God should be an example for how they are to also obey the law. Jesus was not at odds with himself of the Father or Spirit, so everything he commanded was in accordance with the law. The only difference between what was commanded was that Jesus was stricter and commanded the spiritual principles behind the law.

 

[Steeno7]

The goal of a disciple was to become an imitation of their rabbi in action and in thought and Jesus's disciples were no different. Jesus taught how to follow the law both by word an example, and his example of obedience to the law was included in everything that he had taught his disciples as part of the Great Commission. In John 15:10 Jesus is likewise saying that his obedience to God should be an example for how they are to also obey the law. Jesus was not at odds with himself of the Father or Spirit, so everything he commanded was in accordance with the law. The only difference between what was commanded was that Jesus was stricter and commanded the spiritual principles behind the law.

Except that isn't how Jesus lived. Jesus didn't look to "instructions" He looked to the Father and lived in complete dependence upon the Father. Jesus said He did nothing of Himself, but that it was the Father working through Him (John 14:10). He lived a life of perfect abiding in the Father, walking in complete trust and dependence upon the Father. And a man walking in complete trust and dependence on God is a man God can do anything through.

THAT is the example Jesus left us with. Just as He lived in complete dependence upon the Father, we now are to live in complete dependence upon Him. And just as the Father worked through Him, He now works through us who are living by dependent faith in Him. The Christian life is not our trying to live by the Law, the Christian life is Christ, and only He can live it. (Gal. 2:20)

 

[SAAN]

No one obeys the law it's purpose was to lead us to Christ.
Galatians chapter 3 verse 24,25,23
So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith now that faith has come we are no longer under the supervision of the law before this faith came we were held prisoners by the law locked up until Christ should be revealed.

So are you saying once you accept Christ, you are free to do as you please? After believing Jesus is the Messiah who died for your sins, you dont have to obey any of Gods commands from that point onwards? There was faith before Jesus as well, just in case folks thinks faith is something NT only.


If Paul walked around at that time and said.. Yahushah died for your sins and if you believe he is the Messiah you are now free from all of Yahweh's commands, the Jews would have had him put to death right away for that for blaspheming God.

 

[Steeno7]

So are you saying once you accept Christ, you are free to do as you please? After believing Jesus is the Messiah who died for your sins, you dont have to obey any of Gods commands from that point onwards? There was faith before Jesus as well, just in case folks thinks faith is something NT only.

If Paul walked around at that time and said.. Yahushah died for your sins and if you believe he is the Messiah you are now free from all of Yahweh's commands, the Jews would have had him put to death right away for that for blaspheming God.

It is perverted thinking on your part to think that Christians living by faith in Jesus Christ "doing as they please" would be sinning like the devil. It reflects only negatively on you and on your opinion of Jesus.

 

[bugkiller]

The goal of a disciple was to become an imitation of their rabbi in action and in thought and Jesus's disciples were no different. Jesus taught how to follow the law both by word an example, and his example of obedience to the law was included in everything that he had taught his disciples as part of the Great Commission. In John 15:10 Jesus is likewise saying that his obedience to God should be an example for how they are to also obey the law. Jesus was not at odds with himself of the Father or Spirit, so everything he commanded was in accordance with the law. The only difference between what was commanded was that Jesus was stricter and commanded the spiritual principles behind the law.

I find it rather interesting that people were first called Christians in Antioch I think. It is interesting also that Peter was living like a Gentile there until the brethren came from Jerusalem. Very interesting because Jesus didn't live like a Gentile.

bugkiller