United in error about God's commands, There is NO covenant with the gentiles anywhere in the bible!

[bugkiller]

So lets get this straight, your solution is to disobey God completely then?

On judgement day , Jesus asks why did you do anything my father commanded of you and your response will be, well since I couldnt be perfect at it, I figured I wont even bother to obey you at all and do as I please. Lets see the end outcome of that, as he say depart from him and that he never knew you.

Was Paul or the disciples or anyone else in the bible perfect, yet they all followed Gods commands and faith in him.

The problem is you're demanding something God isn't. Is Romans Scripture? Peter says it is in II Pet 3:16. Is Acts Scripture? It testifies against your theology.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

How can you have faith in Jesus Christ when you despise his commands?
Jesus said if you Love him you will keep his commands, yet you and many others on here are constantly saying if anyone attempts to keep his commands, that they are putting themselves under the law or the usual cop out of the gentiles aren't obligated to keep the commands of God. Faith means nothing if its tied to willful disobedience.

Jesus didn't say if you love Me keep the law. John 15:10 is all the proof needed to back this up.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Your conclusions and characterizations of we who live by faith in Christ, is of course, imaginary.

Definitely agreed.

bugkiller

 

[TorahMan]

Keeping Gods commands is what you do because you are saved, and he said if you love him you will keep his commandments.

I'm always amazed at how 'Christians' (?) say they love Jesus, but fail to keep His commandments. I even had one (an ex-friend from my old church) tell me that he went out of his way to NOT keep the commandments, because he felt that by 'throwing himself on the mercy of Jesus, he was bringing glory to Him'. What a nitwit.

They just don't get it that works are what you do after you're saved, and then they wonder why their lives are a mess.

 

[bugkiller]

I understand you're talking about the New Covenant, but this statement is wrong. What about the Nohaic Covenenant ("I'll never more flood the whole earth...")? That was made with the whole of humanity, although it comprised only eight people at that point. But that includes gentiles.

As for the rest of it, I agree mostly with what you're saying. As 7th-Day Baptists, this topic is often discussed in my family. I'm going to take all the quotes on this thread and look into the matter further...

I wish you the best. Ask them to show you the requirement in the NT to keep any of the law. They can't. Get fluent in Romans and Galatians especially. Romans 7:6 implies all the law. Paul specifically mentions the 10 Cs in that chapter he said we're delivered from them. In Galatians Paul makes it very clear its all the law or none as does James in James 2. You might give John 1:17 and 15:10 some thought as well.

bugkilller

 

[Frogster]

Jeremiah 31:31-34 (NKJV)
A New Covenant
31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah

Yes the old covenant of animal sacrifices was replaced with the blood of Christ in the New Covenant, so now Christ blood covers our sins instead of animals. But you can fight it all you want, but the New Covenant was made with Israel, not the Gentiles. We are simply grafted into Israel when we get saved.



Paul says Salvation is for everyone.
Romans 1:16(NKJV)
The Just Live by Faith
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

So its clear there is one law we are to follow and there is no such thing as Jew command and Gentile commands, yet on this forum, people are quick to say .... well , the gentiles arent commanded to do so and so, when the bible clearly states we all have the same law in the new covenant.


Acts 15:20-21(NKJV)
20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

Acts 15 made it pretty clear that outside of the basic couple of things the gentiles were to refrain from as new followers of Christ, since these were big issues that they had as previously pagans, they will learn the rest as the continue to grow when they go to the synagogues every Saturday. Its no different than your job, in which on the first day you are given the basic rules and as time goes on, you will learn the rest of the rules.

bro, lets cut to the quick! Abe the gentile, was given the gospel, as a gentile, and it was inclusive to gentiles ALL NATIONS, in gen 12:3, before there was even a house of judah!

 

[Frogster]

What then are you attempting to say with your quote about the covenant being made with the Jews? Aren't you promoting the law in a double minded fashion? You made no provision for anyone else. That leaves me to believe unless one conforms to the requirements of that covenant they can't have salvation.

Just so you know I rolled with your typo without a problem.

bugkiller

bro, you said it well! Maybe some need to get a direct phone call from the Lord, to grasp the point.

 

[Frogster]

Noah was a Gentile. God made a covenant with Noah which stands to this day for all his descendants (the world). Enough said.

he had one huge>>>>

 

[Frogster]

No, I dont think there should be Judaism, Hebrew Roots, or Christianity, but just followers or believers of Christ. Much of the issues we see in the bible was the Jews trying so much to protect the commands of God, they added hundred of extra commands that wants biblical that made it bondage. Jesus seemed to spend much of his time correcting them about what the laws actually meant.

I never said the law is a requirement for salvation, as believing Jesus is the son of God that died on the cross for your sins and accepting him as your savior and repenting of your sins is the only path to salvation. Keeping Gods commands is what you do because you are saved, and he said if you love him you will keep his commandments.

what is wrong with being a Christian?

 

[bugkiller]

I'm always amazed at how 'Christians' (?) say they love Jesus, but fail to keep His commandments. I even had one (an ex-friend from my old church) tell me that he went out of his way to NOT keep the commandments, because he felt that by 'throwing himself on the mercy of Jesus, he was bringing glory to Him'. What a nitwit.

They just don't get it that works are what you do after you're saved, and then they wonder why their lives are a mess.

I'm simply appalled by those who come here promoting the law as an obligation of Christians. The total context of your post which includes you moniker tells me you have no idea about the 10 Cs or even Who issued them or the commandments of Jesus. You're running on what others have told you and not the Bible clearly says.

I personally invite you to read lots of threads (old and new) and learn. Of course it would not hurt you to pray for understanding and read the Bible for yourself. Read what is there. Yes I expect you to have a hard time believing it.

bugkiller

 

[Soyeong]

That's a very inventive interpretation. But we all know the Law is more than "instructions", it demands what it demands and takes no captives. God does not grade on a scale, it's strictly pass/fail. And we all fail. Enter Jesus Christ. Thank you Jesus.

Paul directly said that we died to that which held us captive, so my interpretation is pretty straightforward. I agree that the law is more than instructions for life, but that is also condemns to death those who transgress it. We must not throw out the instructions for life at the same time we are set from the condemnation for transgression, but rather we are set free so that we can follow God's instructions for life by faith and the leading of the Spirit. While the issue of justification is pass/fail, that's not the only thing God grades us on:

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.

 

[SAAN]

what is wrong with being a Christian?

There is nothing wrong with being a Christian, but its just a title. The word Christian was only used 3 times in the bible and it was a derogatory term. They were called followers of the way back then, as Jesus didnt die a Jew and raise a Christian. What im saying is we need to be all one in Christ with the same beliefs that are backed by the bible, so we dont have the nonsense of gay Christians churches and other Christians pretty much doing every single thing the world does.

There is just too much separation now adays. The following all think what they believe is the truth, but all have issues
Catholics - Pope, many pagan symbols, and form of idolatry
Protestants - follows just about everything the Catholic church does, but stays away from things like the pope, mary worship, etc
SDA's - Ellen G White
COG- H Armstrong
Mormons - Joseph Smith
Jehovah Witness- Watchtower a
Jews - dont believe in Jesus
Messianic Jews &Messianic Hebrews- Talmuud ( Jews), many have too much hate towards Christians, deny virgin birth, or dont consider the NT as scripture

 

[Steeno7]

Paul directly said that we died to that which held us captive, so my interpretation is pretty straightforward. I agree that the law is more than instructions for life, but that is also condemns to death those who transgress it. We must not throw out the instructions for life at the same time we are set from the condemnation for transgression, but rather we are set free so that we can follow God's instructions for life by faith and the leading of the Spirit. While the issue of justification is pass/fail, that's not the only thing God grades us on:

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.

No. We are set free from the Law TO Christ. We are not set free from the Law to then return to the very thing we have been freed from. And when you stand before Him on that day the only thing that will count is the good He has done through you as you lived by faith in Him, everything else you will have done while in the body is evil.

 

[Soyeong]

No. We are set free from the Law TO Christ. We are not set free from the Law to then return to the very thing we have been freed from. And when you stand before Him on that day the only thing that will count is the good He has done through you as you lived by faith in Him, everything else you will have done while in the body is evil.

As Paul specified, we were freed from that which held us captive. God's instructions for life for how to have a conduct that is righteous and holy never held us captive, so we were never set free from them. We couldn't follow them through our own effort because of a sin nature, so Christ died so that we would be freed to follow them. Christ kept the law perfectly as an example for us to follow and if we are to become like him through sanctification, then we must submit to God's will as he did and obey them by faith and the leading of the Spirit. The good that God does through us is in perfect accordance with His instructions for how to have a conduct that is righteous and holy - they are in fact one in the same.

 

[Soyeong]

Messianic Jews &Messianic Hebrews- Talmuud ( Jews), many have too much hate towards Christians, deny virgin birth, or dont consider the NT as scripture

I'm not saying there aren't some like that, but I've never run into another Messianic Jew who has expressed any of those views.

 

[Soyeong]

Jesus didn't say if you love Me keep the law. John 15:10 is all the proof needed to back this up.

bugkiller

What Jesus commanded was in perfect accordance with the law. John 15:10 says nothing about Jesus giving an alternate set of commands that was not in accord with what the Father had commanded.

 

[SAAN]

I'm not saying there aren't some like that, but I've never run into another Messianic Jew who has expressed any of those views.

I have many times, but much of the rage against Christians seem to come from the Messianic Hebrews ive met. For some reason many Messianics Ive talked to dont seem to take Paul's letter seriously and just see them as commentary and not scripture. I know the big divide between messianics and christians come down to Sabbath vs Sunday, Sabbath Days vs Holidays, and Dietary Laws most of the time

 

[Steeno7]

As Paul specified, we were freed from that which held us captive. God's instructions for life for how to have a conduct that is righteous and holy never held us captive, so we were never set free from them. We couldn't follow them through our own effort because of a sin nature, so Christ died so that we would be freed to follow them. Christ kept the law perfectly as an example for us to follow and if we are to become like him through sanctification, then we must submit to God's will as he did and obey them by faith and the leading of the Spirit. The good that God does through us is in perfect accordance with His instructions for how to have a conduct that is righteous and holy - they are in fact one in the same.

Nonsensical gibberish.

 

[Soyeong]

Nonsensical gibberish.

I know the Bible can be difficult to understand, but you should try.

 

[Soyeong]

I have many times, but much of the rage against Christians seem to come from the Messianic Hebrews ive met. For some reason many Messianics Ive talked to dont seem to take Paul's letter seriously and just see them as commentary and not scripture. I know the big divide between messianics and christians come down to Sabbath vs Sunday, Sabbath Days vs Holidays, and Dietary Laws most of the time

I think if Paul says anything that goes against keeping God's law, then we should throw it out as unscriptural, as the Bible instructs. The OT is what the authors of the NT used to validate their message and it is how we should validate any interpretation of the NT as well. Fortunately, with a proper understand of Paul, it doesn't need to come to that. As the Bible says he can be difficult to understand, but centuries of misinterpreting him through an anti-Torah lens has twisted it around so much that the truth of the Gospel now seems gibberish to some. I highly recommend this sermon series on Romans to help unpack Paul verse by verse:

http://rabbiyeshua.com/kehilat-store/audio-teachings

We've gone through Galatians also, but not all the sermons are posted.