Unforgiveness is unforgivable...

[Guojing]

Then which teachings was the Holy Spirit going to bring to our remembrance [per John 14:26]?

"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will

• teach you all things, and
• bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you." John 14:26 NKJV

You there could not have referred to us gentiles, as Matthew 15:24 clearly indicated.

 

[Carl Emerson]

You might like to hammer that out on another thread...

This thread is to reflect on the gravity of the sin of unforgiveness.

 

[Sabertooth]

.

 

[Guojing]

-

 

[bling]

Do not blame God for not forgiving, but the person God is trying to forgive will not humbly accept the forgiveness as pure undeserved charity.

Matt. 18: 21-35

Peter asked a question and Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but 77 times (or 7x70).

I would say: “Jesus answered Peter’s question, perfectly, a strait forward answer, but Jesus’ answer would produce follow-up questions immediately, but the apostles are slow to ask Jesus what is on their hearts which we find throughout scripture. The parable is the follow-up answer to this question Peter (and the other disciples) would have on his/their heart(s). (which I also being see on your heart from your response.)

I would suggest: when Jesus says 7 times 70 or 77 they are thinking: “WOW!! How Can we keep from being taken advantage of by our brothers if we are just going to keep forgiving them every time?” (People always think about how it will impact themselves.)

Jesus then needs to address this bigger question with His parable.

Here are some questions I have asked in the past:


The Master (God as seen in verse 35) is the way the apostles and all Christians are to behave.

The (wicked) servant I think would be referring to all mature adults, but am open to other alternatives? (This example, is it referring to all other humans or just other Christian brothers?)

Here is what we might want to further discuss on Matt. 18:

The Master (God) would have to be doing all His part completely perfectly and all He can do in unconditionally forgive the servant, but does the servant accept being forgiven as pure charity (undeserving/unconditional)?

The servant is asked: “Give me time” and “I’ll pay everything back.” Now this unbelievably huge debt is way beyond any possibility of being paid back and the Master states this and the servant would know this, but what would the Master be tell the world about this servant if he gave him more time? Could the servant take pride in telling others: “The Master gave me more time to pay the whole debt back”?

In management 101 they tell us not to give the person a raise at the same time you give them a performance review, why? They come in wanting to hear what raise they got, and that is all they will hear and remember.

This parable might be a classic example of the person hearing what they wanted to hear. The servant came to the master wanting to hear, “I will give you more time to pay all the debt” while he did not want to hear, “Your debt has been totally forgiven”, so what did he hear?


If the servant truly accept unconditional forgiveness of this unbelievable huge debt, would he not automatically have an unbelievable huge Love (really Godly type Love), (Luke 7: 40-50) and would that Love have been seen in Loving the Master’s other servants, which it is not being seen?

If a “unconditional forgiveness transaction” had taken place/been completed how could the Master (God) say and do: “Shouldn’t you have had mercy on the other servant just as I had mercy on you?” 34 In anger his master turned him over to the jailers. He would be punished until he paid back everything he owed.”?

God being Love would be the perfect forgiver, forgiving everyone of all their wrongs all the time, so how could anyone go to hell?

 

[d taylor]

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I also noticed the unforgivable sin (Matthew 12) was also brought up in this thread.

It is sad how often this sin is mention around here, showing a complete misunderstanding. Of this sin in Matthew 12, the sin has absolutely no consequence for any person today, believer or unbeliever. But yet time and time again, people are posting here (and i am sure other forums/etc too) how they are afraid they have committed this sin in Matthew 12.

I guess if one will ignore proper Biblical contextual study, they will suffer the plague of doubt or worry in their lives.

 

[Minister Monardo]

My style is to let the Scripture speak for itself.

When I read what Jesus said it is compellingly serious - no forgiveness unless we forgive.

Jesus was preaching under the Law throughout his earthly ministry to the nation of Israel.

Here's another example that comes quickly to mind, a verse that we should never "allow to speak for itself"/take by itself/take completely out-of-context from other parts of the Bible,

Then which teachings was the Holy Spirit going to bring to our remembrance [per John 14:26]?

Paul applies this in a very specific way,
and applies to all.
Romans 2:
1 Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.

2 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things.

3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God?

Matthew 7:
1 Judge not, that you be not judged.
2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you.

Anyone who dismisses the teachings of Christ by
trying to apply them to Jews under Law alone
neglects their own mercy.
Jonah 2:8 Those who observe lying vanities forsake their own mercy.
James 2:13 For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.
Matthew 5:7 Blessed are the merciful,
For they shall obtain mercy.
Matthew 4:4 But He answered and said, It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’

 

[Carl Emerson]

He that has an ear let him hear...

Have a great day everyone...

 

[eleos1954]

Matt 6:15

...if you do not forgive other people, then your Father will not forgive your offenses.

Friends we underestimate how serious unforgiveness is.

I urge that we all ask Him to search our hearts in this matter.

It sounds as serious as the unforgivable sin.

Maybe we don't take this important issue seriously enough.

We are not to judge others .... judgement is TOTALLY up to Jesus.

If we do not forgive one another .... then we are judging them, this is why we are called to forgive one another.

Luke 6:37

Berean Literal Bible
And do not judge that you should not be judged; and do not condemn that you should not be condemned; forgive and you will be forgiven.

 

[BrotherJJ]

Matt 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 6 - King James Version

Matt 6:14 For if you forgive [k]others their trespasses [their reckless and willful sins], your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive others [nurturing your hurt and anger with the result that it interferes with your relationship with God], then your Father will not forgive your trespasses.
Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 6 - Amplified Bible

My own study bible choice since my conversion. Has been the KJ Thompson Chain reference bible. Having said that I like to read many versions when looking at verses in question.

1st I want to agree with your posted position. Unforgiveness is like a cancer, the longer it goes untreated the worse it becomes.

I think the AMP add some helpful perspective to this verse. I glean from their bracket additions. Unforgiveness interferes with our relationship with the Lord, which is bad enough. Probably invites chastisement, loss of rewards as well.

I don't believe it equals the unforgivable. I think rejection of Christ' sin atoning payment & resurrection (His Holy Spirit, because He will draw ALL Jn 12:32) until life's end. Is the only unforgivable act/sin. Blessings to all, JJ

 

[Carl Emerson]

Matt 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 6 - King James Version

Matt 6:14 For if you forgive [k]others their trespasses [their reckless and willful sins], your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive others [nurturing your hurt and anger with the result that it interferes with your relationship with God], then your Father will not forgive your trespasses.
Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 6 - Amplified Bible

My own study bible choice since my conversion. Has been the KJ Thompson Chain reference bible. Having said that I like to read many versions when looking at verses in question.

1st I want to agree with your posted position. Unforgiveness is like a cancer, the longer it goes untreated the worse it becomes.

I think the AMP add some helpful perspective to this verse. I glean from their bracket additions. Unforgiveness interferes with our relationship with the Lord, which is bad enough. Probably invites chastisement, loss of rewards as well.

I don't believe it equals the unforgivable. I think rejection of Christ' sin atoning payment & resurrection (His Holy Spirit, because He will draw ALL Jn 12:32) until life's end. Is the only unforgivable act/sin. Blessings to all, JJ

Thanks JJ - I have a Thompsons Chain also...

Regarding you last paragraph. - if someone goes to the grave with serious unforgiveness does the word of Christ hold - they will not be forgiven... What does this then mean for them at judgement ???

 

[Sabertooth]

What does this then mean for them at judgement ???

Straightforward, it means they won't be forgiven.
(There might be some grace/wiggle room for unforgiveness that God had not yet convicted them of, if they have otherwise forgiven when they were so convicted.)

 

[BrotherJJ]

Thanks JJ - I have a Thompsons Chain also...

Regarding you last paragraph. - if someone goes to the grave with serious unforgiveness does the word of Christ hold - they will not be forgiven... What does this then mean for them at judgement ???

Hi Carl,
One day we'll get to see & ask the Lord about some of these issues.

My thinking reverted back to:

1Cor 3:
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
(MY NOTE: If Christ' is your foundation)

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
(NOTE: Gold & silver = Good works done in Christ's name. Hay, wood & stubble = no works, selfish works, even bad works)

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
(NOTE: Every work good & bad will be tested)

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
(NOTE: Good works done in Christ's name will receive a reward. Even a drink of water given in His name. (Mk 9:41) will earn a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
(NOTE: Hay, wood & stubble deeds will burn-up bringing, shame & loss = """OF REWARDS""" not SALVATION)

Rereading verse 15: He "Will SUFFER LOSS", though he "HIMSELF WILL BE SAVED"

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Carl,
This is not to say sin/unforgiveness don't/won't have a consequence.

Consequence from sinning post-conversion/salvation. Could manifest in many different ways. A health issue, a broken relationship, prison, disease, a strain in our relationship with the Lord, lost heavenly rewards earned etc.

I still maintain there is only 1 unforgivable (soul losing) sin = No faith/REJECTING Christ's sin atoning sacrifice & resurrection until life's end. May His grace be multiplied to you & yours, JJ

 

[RDKirk]

Matt 6:15

...if you do not forgive other people, then your Father will not forgive your offenses.

Friends we underestimate how serious unforgiveness is.

I urge that we all ask Him to search our hearts in this matter.

It sounds as serious as the unforgivable sin.

Maybe we don't take this important issue seriously enough.

I make note that the parable of the unforgiving steward (a bit later in Matthew 18) is the only parable that Jesus immediately explained to His entire audience to make sure they all completely understood it. Jesus is shown making the same point in two different ways. This harkens back to Genesis 41: "The reason the dream was given to Pharaoh in two forms is that the matter has been firmly decided by God, and God will do it soon."

If the Lord says it twice...believe it.

But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

"...And should not you have had mercy on your fellow servant, as I had mercy on you?" And in anger his master delivered him to the jailers, until he should pay all his debt. So also, my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart.

Jesus is that serious about it.

 

[RDKirk]

That was under the law. There is no unforgivable sin for us now.

Unforgiveness was not a sin under the Mosaic Law. That was a whole new requirement of Messianic Covenant living that Jesus created.

 

[Guojing]

Unforgiveness was not a sin under the Mosaic Law. That was a whole new requirement of Messianic Covenant living that Jesus created.

Which, as Jesus said clearly in Matthew 15:24, was not spoken to us gentiles.

So long as you take that verse literally, everything else is clear.

 

[RDKirk]

Which, as Jesus said clearly in Matthew 15:24, was not spoken to us gentiles.

So long as you take that verse literally, everything else is clear.

If you take that single verse literally, Jesus is of no use for the salvation of Gentiles.

 

[Guojing]

If you take that single verse literally, Jesus is of no use for the salvation of Gentiles.

I am simply saying, we gentiles were without Christ in his first coming, since we were aliens from the nation of Israel (Ephesians 2:11-12).

So we take our salvation doctrine from the apostle Paul, whom the ascended Christ saved to personally deliver his salvation message to us, which is found in Romans to Philemon.

That is what "rightly dividing the word of truth" means.

 

[Minister Monardo]

You there could not have referred to us gentiles, as Matthew 15:24 clearly indicated.

I am absolutely stunned that you think that Mt. 15:24
implies that what Jesus taught wasn't for everyone.
All this verse means is that while He was here, His attention was toward the nation of Israel. After the resurrection, He commands the apostles:
Mattthew 28:
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

 

[RDKirk]

I am simply saying, we gentiles were without Christ in his first coming, since we were aliens from the nation of Israel (Ephesians 2:11-12).

So we take our salvation doctrine from the apostle Paul, whom the ascended Christ saved to personally deliver his salvation message to us, which is found in Romans to Philemon.

That is what "rightly dividing the word of truth" means.

Paul based his salvation doctrine on the life and death and resurrection of Christ, not just on Christ's resurrection. Paul used Jesus' life to develop his salvation doctrine, and even quoted Jesus...demonstrating that what Jesus said was not just for the Jews.