Unforgiveness is unforgivable...

[Guojing]

Paul based his salvation doctrine on the life and death and resurrection of Christ, not just on Christ's resurrection. Paul used Jesus' life to develop his salvation doctrine, and even quoted Jesus...demonstrating that what Jesus said was not just for the Jews.

So, if you want to go back to the OP, Paul taught us to forgive others, because in Christ, God has already forgiven us Ephesians 4:32

You see the difference between that verse and the verse taught by Jesus to Israel, under the Law?

 

[Guojing]

I am absolutely stunned that you think that Mt. 15:24
implies that what Jesus taught wasn't for everyone.
All this verse means is that while He was here, His attention was toward the nation of Israel. After the resurrection, He commands the apostles:
Mattthew 28:
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

Yes, many churches preach a lot from the 4 gospels, so naturally, I can understand why they will be stunned by a verse like Matthew 15:24.

 

[Minister Monardo]

So we take our salvation doctrine from the apostle Paul, whom the ascended Christ saved to personally deliver his salvation message to us, which is found in Romans to Philemon.

Paul's message begins in Acts:
26:15 So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.
16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you.
17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you,
18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’
19 “Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision,
20 but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.
Same message to all. Clear?

That is what "rightly dividing the word of truth" means.

Seriously? Dividing the word of truth is some for Jews, some for Gentiles? Timothy, a Jew, was
to take the scriptures and divide them between the Jews and the Gentiles? No way!
2 Timothy 2:
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
John 17:
17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.
20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
We are all One by the Spirit of Truth

 

[Guojing]

Paul's message begins in Acts:
26:15 So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.
16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you.
17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you,
18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’
19 “Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision,
20 but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.
Same message to all. Clear?


Seriously? Dividing the word of truth is some for Jews, some for Gentiles? Timothy, a Jew, was
to take the scriptures and divide them between the Jews and the Gentiles? No way!
2 Timothy 2:
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
John 17:
17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.
20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
We are all One by the Spirit of Truth

I gave an example regarding the OP to the other guy.

Unforgiveness is unforgivable...

Do you see the difference there?

 

[Minister Monardo]

Yes, many churches preach a lot from the 4 gospels, so naturally, I can understand why they will be stunned by a verse like Matthew 15:24.

No more than someone who shares your belief would be stunned by
Mathew 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.
Are you actually refusing to get this right?

 

[Guojing]

Regarding you last paragraph. - if someone goes to the grave with serious unforgiveness does the word of Christ hold - they will not be forgiven... What does this then mean for them at judgement ???

Nothing will happen, as Paul reminded us in the Body of Christ in Romans 2:16

“In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel”

 

[Minister Monardo]

So, if you want to go back to the OP, Paul taught us to forgive others, because in Christ, God has already forgiven us Ephesians 4:32

You see the difference between that verse and the verse taught by Jesus to Israel, under the Law?

Nope. Jesus preached forgiveness of sin to Israel.
He preached forgive, as you have been forgiven.
No difference. One Truth. One Gospel. One Lord.
One Flock. One God. Every Word for everyone.
That God may be All, in All.

 

[Guojing]

No more than someone who shares your belief would be stunned by
Mathew 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.
Are you actually refusing to get this right?

You should read Matthew 28:18, the verse before, to understand who this command was given to.

As far as scripture is concerned, this was never fulfilled by the 12, who never left Jerusalem.

 

[Guojing]

Nope. Jesus preached forgiveness of sin to Israel.
He preached forgive, as you have been forgiven.
No difference. One Truth. One Gospel. One Lord.
One Flock. One God. Every Word for everyone.
That God may be All, in All.

You don't see a difference in meaning between these 2 statements?

1. If you don't forgive others of their sin, neither will your Father forgive you of yours.
2. You should forgive others because in Christ, God has already forgiven you

If you cannot, then I cannot help you. We can agree to disagree then.

 

[Minister Monardo]

If you cannot, then I cannot help you.

Don't need your help.
Was Luke a Jew or a Gentile?
Do you think he wrote his Gospel in Greek
for Jews or Gentiles?
Is the Gospel of Luke somehow different from
Matthew or Mark?
Luke 1:
1 Inasmuch as many have taken in hand to set in order a narrative of those things which have been fulfilled among us,
2 just as those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word delivered them to us,
3 it seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write to you an orderly account, most excellent Theophilus,
4 that you may know the certainty of those things in which you were instructed.
You most certainly do not have a perfect understanding of the Gospel if you think Luke
was writing a different message for his fellow Greeks.

 

[Guojing]

Don't need your help.
Was Luke a Jew or a Gentile?
Do you think he wrote his Gospel in Greek
for Jews or Gentiles?
Is the Gospel of Luke somehow different from
Matthew or Mark?
Luke 1:
1 Inasmuch as many have taken in hand to set in order a narrative of those things which have been fulfilled among us,
2 just as those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word delivered them to us,
3 it seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write to you an orderly account, most excellent Theophilus,
4 that you may know the certainty of those things in which you were instructed.
You most certainly do not have a perfect understanding of the Gospel if you think Luke
was writing a different message for his fellow Greeks.

I was talking about these 2 statements.

Do you seriously believe they are teaching the same thing?

1. If you don't forgive others of their sin, neither will your Father forgive you of yours.
2. You should forgive others because in Christ, God has already forgiven you

 

[Minister Monardo]

I was talking about these 2 statements.

Do you seriously believe they are teaching the same thing?

1. If you don't forgive others of their sin, neither will your Father forgive you of yours.
2. You should forgive others because in Christ, God has already forgiven you

I do not take statements that you make seriously.
Gospel of Luke. For Jews or Gentiles? ATQ
Luke, a Greek, wrote his Gospel and the Acts
for a Gentile audience. You do greatly err to think
that only Paul's letters apply to Gentiles, or that
Paul did not teach Jews the same message in the synagogues of every city he visited. You are wrongly dividing the Word of Truth.

 

[Guojing]

I do not take statements that you make seriously.
Gospel of Luke. For Jews or Gentiles? ATQ
Luke, a Greek, wrote his Gospel and the Acts
for a Gentile audience. You do greatly err to think
that only Paul's letters apply to Gentiles, or that
Paul did not teach Jews the same message in the synagogues of every city he visited. You are wrongly dividing the Word of Truth.

You are making a separate point then.

 

[Minister Monardo]

You are making a separate point then.

Yes, A point that totally refutes your arguments.
One Gospel. Period. Luke and Acts were written by a Greek for a Greek audience. Same Gospel.

 

[Guojing]

Yes, A point that totally refutes your arguments.
One Gospel. Period. Luke and Acts were written by a Greek for a Greek audience. Same Gospel.

If you say so, we are always correct in our own minds.

 

[Minister Monardo]

Nothing will happen, as Paul reminded us in the Body of Christ in Romans 2:16

“In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel”

Gospel of Luke, written for Greeks
Luke 1:
1 Inasmuch as many have taken in hand to set in order a narrative of those things which have been fulfilled among us,
2 just as those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word delivered them to us,
3 it seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write to you an orderly account, most excellent Theophilus,
4 that you may know the certainty of those things in which you were instructed.
Luke 5:
37 Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
38 Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you.

Luke was a traveling companion of Paul.

 

[Guojing]

Gospel of Luke, written for Greeks
Luke 1:
1 Inasmuch as many have taken in hand to set in order a narrative of those things which have been fulfilled among us,
2 just as those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word delivered them to us,
3 it seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write to you an orderly account, most excellent Theophilus,
4 that you may know the certainty of those things in which you were instructed.
Luke 5:
37 Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
38 Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you.

Luke was a traveling companion of Paul.

When Paul said "my gospel", you actually thought he was referring to the Gospel of Luke? =)

 

[Minister Monardo]

When Paul said "my gospel", you actually thought he was referring to the Gospel of Luke? =)

No. But you apparently think that Paul's evangel is somehow different. He spent 18 months in Corinth and 2 years in Ephesus. You actually think you know what he taught from his letters? If all of Paul's letters were lost, we would still have the account of his ministry provided in Acts, written by Luke. We would have Luke's Gospel account, written for Greeks. Paul's letters are not his Gospel. This is your error.
Acts 13:
38 Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins;
39 and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.
40 Beware therefore, lest what has been spoken in the prophets come upon you:
41 ‘Behold, you despisers,
Marvel and perish!
For I work a work in your days,
A work which you will by no means believe,
Though one were to declare it to you.’
42 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.
43 Now when the congregation had broken up, many of the Jews and devout proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.
45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy; and contradicting and blaspheming, they opposed the things spoken by Paul.
46 Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles.
47 For so the Lord has commanded us:
‘I have set you as a light to the Gentiles,
That you should be for salvation to the ends of the earth.’ ”
48 Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.
49 And the word of the Lord was being spread throughout all the region.

 

[The Liturgist]

Matt 6:15

...if you do not forgive other people, then your Father will not forgive your offenses.

Friends we underestimate how serious unforgiveness is.

I urge that we all ask Him to search our hearts in this matter.

It sounds as serious as the unforgivable sin.

Maybe we don't take this important issue seriously enough.

I think it probably is a form of the unforgivable sin, which is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which according to many theologians of different denominations constitutes persistent rejection of the grace of the Holy Spirit until one loses any sense of guilt or any inclination or will to repent, having chosen in a definitive manner sin and worldliness over virtue and Godliness.

 

[Guojing]

No. But you apparently think that Paul's evangel is somehow different. He spent 18 months in Corinth and 2 years in Ephesus. You actually think you know what he taught from his letters? If all of Paul's letters were lost, we would still have the account of his ministry provided in Acts, written by Luke. We would have Luke's Gospel account, written for Greeks. Paul's letters are not his Gospel. This is your error.

In the first place, Acts is transitional book, its a book that describe the history of the church after Christ ascended, concluding with the fall of the nation of Israel in Acts 28.

It is not a book that contains Paul's gospel, as stated in Romans 2:16.