Understanding the Sabbath

[WanderingMagi]

Genesis 2
3 And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

isn't the point not that we should not rest on the seventh day, but that we do not know where the seventh day falls? I think we can safely assume that our calendrical observations are by now hopelessly muddled.
So what difference does it make? Choose which one is the Seventh day!
I live in a place where Sunday is considered the first day of the week; I worship on Sunday. But sunday isn't the first day of the week as far as I am concerned - I begin things on Monday, and look forward to the week-end, the whole of which is, according to the actions I preform on each day, called the week-end for a reason.
What matters is that we take time out from work at the end of our week and (hopefully) use that time to best advantage for rest, praise, and learning of God - that is what God did in Genesis.

Wandering Magi

 

[d0c markus]

Doc: I belong to a religious order. HENCE my Name being Brother Max. The building I live in serves double duty as a sanctuary for specific services and a residence hall for members of the order. I get the fun Job of being the Superior of the House - which means I'm the one that the authorities call out on the carpet when things are wrong in the house. I also get to live in the room next to the chapel It's nice to have the presence of the Lord in ones house. I for one love it!

Cool. What kinda order, do you have a webage? Are you like a monk?

 

[bjh]

Mark 2:27 "...The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath..."
The sabbath was made so that man might not work 24x7. Is the day that he rests that important, whether it be Saturday, Sunday, or some other day?

In terms of outward appearance, why wasn't "Remember the Sabbath" mentioned by James in Acts 15:20?

What is the Greatest Commandment? "'You shall Love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.' The second is this, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself'"

Furthermore, in terms of keeping the Sabbath holy, how far should we take it?
God did not just prescribe a day of rest, but of complete rest (Exodus 35:2).

We should not kindle a fire (Ex 35:3). No ovens or stoves, but does that extend to touching the thermostat? What about starting the car?

We should not buy food or anything else on the sabbath, according to the practice of Nehemiah (Neh. 10:31) What about restaurants?

Should we prepare all our meals the day before? (Ex. 16:23-26)

If we, as mostly Gentile believers, needed to follow all the instructions given to the Jews, would not all ouf our lifestyles need a major overhaul?

However, In Matthew 12, we read that the priests break the sabbath and are innocent. Are we, as believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, not priests? Rev. 1:6 says that we are a kingdom of priests.

Our focus is not the sabbath but the Lord of the Sabbath.

 

[bjh]

Hi bjh,

I'm not sure how you understand Acts 15:20 as being outward appearance.

By "outward appearance" I meant visible actions - what others see you do. In the Acts 15 example, the instructions were to "abstain from things sacrificed to idols, from fornication, from what is strangled, and from blood". I considered these public sins - visible ones - whether people see you buying the meat in the market place, etc.

The ten commandments prior to being born again are designed to bring condemnation. They are the handwritings that are against us to reveal sin. The ten commandments and all the burdens that follow the ten commandments are there to bring a heavy weight upon all those who desire to live by the law under the mindset of Adam. The ten commandments were never given to make one righteous but rather they were given to convict the conscience to the fact that we are sinners and in need of a Savior. In Christ there is no condemnation, the handwriting against us contained in the law has been removed by Christ.
Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;


Once the sinner understands his sin nature through the law he is now able to turn to Christ in order that he may receive the Holy Spirit, the mind of Christ.


Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Agreed, so far.

Once this happens the law now takes on a new form, it goes from the law written on stone to the law written on our hearts. The first is to bring condemnation, the second is to bringforth love from a pure heart and a good conscience and sincere faith.


1 Timothy 1:5 Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith,

Which commandment is Paul referring to? He didn't say "the Law". Was he not referring to verse 4, "nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith." (NKJV)

The goal is not to keep the Mosaic Law. The goal is love from a pure heart.

So why does it say that the greatest commandment is love for God and love your neighbor, because that is the purpose of the law or the ultimate reason for it. A pure heart and a good conscience is something we don't have as sinners but it's something that is given to us when we turn from the old man, Adam, and receive Christ. The is way God's word says that the sacrifice of animals in the OT could not cleans the conscience, it was only a shadow of what Jesus was going to in us.


Hebrews 9:9 It was symbolic for the present time in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make him who performed the service perfect in regard to the conscience.


We can never make the old man good, it's cursed. The only thing we can do is put on the new man, Christ. There is a rest knowing that we can't do anything to make ourselves right before God but that rest is coming from listening to the Spirit for daily living, Jesus is Lord of that inward Sabbath.

With this rest comes a thankful and loving heart seeking to express our love for God and our neighbor. How do we love a God we can't see? How do we come into a personal relationship with the Father?


Eph.4:22-24 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.


John 14:21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.''


Remember, the law on stone (outward) can never bring a personal relationship it can only point us to Christ so He can write it on our pure hearts.


Truth in love,
John

We're not seeing eye to eye. You seem to be arguing with me, but it is hard to find the point of disagreement in what you say here. I guess I "jumped into" this discussion without understanding all the angles. For that, I am sorry.

My understanding was that the issue was over the outward keeping of the Sabbath, and whether we worship on a Saturday (the Jewish Sabbath) or Sunday (the first day of the week). I agree that, as you said, our rest is an inward one, so that would seem to mean that whether we worship outwardly on a Saturday or on Sunday is really immaterial. However maybe I'm totally missing it, but I don't see anything here that would go one way or the other.

 

[bjh]

Hi bjh,

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Also, the seventh day Sabbath was made at creation before there ever was a Jew.

Truth in love,
John

How far should we "keep the Sabbath"?
Obviously God told the Jews, in no uncertain terms, very strict regulations on what could or could not be done. If the Sabbath was made at Creation, then the Sabbath regulations given to the Jews regarding worship and conduct should then predate the Jews and would extend to all creation, everywhere, right?


Again, this would lead us to...
1) Complete rest (Ex 35:2)
2) no Cars, no Furnace, no Cooking - Remember, No Fires (35:3)
3) No Food (exept what was prepared and bought on Friday - or earlier) (Neh. 10:31) If the Sabbath is a universal regulation, then what was good for the Jews in Nehemiah's day would be good for all. This would extend to restaurants.


You could probably come up with a broader list of regulations that must be kept regarding the Sabbath, but I'd be hard pressed to think of anyone who we might truly say "keeps the Sabbath" in the Biblical sense.


Of course, as a kingdom of priests of the Lord of the Sabbath, we can break the Sabbath and are forgiven (no, I misspoke, we are innocent - Matt 12:5).

 

[gathrdbygrc]

Hi,
This is my first post on this site so I haven't read the whole thread. Please forgive me if my points have already been raised.
First, we read in the OT that the sabbath was given as a sign between God and Israel.
Second, the Lord began to meet with His disciples on the first day of the week after His resurrection. This has to do with our relationship being one of ressurection life on this side of the cross. In Acts we read that the early church also gathered on the first day of the week.
I beleive God has given us a new day which corresponds to Christ being our beginning which we look back to rather than Messiah which Israel looked forward to as the end of their travails. We find our rest in Christ and then go forth into the world.
Yours in Christ,
Ross

 

[adam332]

You said;
"First, we read in the OT that the sabbath was given as a sign between God and Israel."

It does say that but it is not the first mention of the Sabbath which was instituted 2300 yrs before a Jew existed. Secondly, God's Israel is all believers, this includes Christians, and is not a bloodline and never was.

You said;
"Second, the Lord began to meet with His disciples on the first day of the week after His resurrection."

That's false.

You said;
"In Acts we read that the early church also gathered on the first day of the week."

That is also false.

 

[Bro_Brown11233]

Under the old law, God said Remember the Sabbath. This day corresponds to our Saturday (7 day). In Mat 28:1 and following, it notes that as the end of the Sabbath was approaching the first day of the week evolved. Christ rose on the first day of the week (Sunday). As the years evolved the Christians met on Sunday the day that Jesus rose from the dead Acts 20:7 the example. We are not under the law Rom.6:15 thus we are not under the authority of Remember the Sabbath. The day of rest for the Christian is the day of our passing from her to eternity (Hebrews).
Bro. Brown

 

[adam332]

Regarding Acts 20:7

Firstly, the text does not even specify what day it is speaking of. In the original Greek do not see the word "hemera". It was added by translators, and will appear in [brackets] or italicized denoting such, in many Bible versions.

If this particular day was to be considered special or of any significance to them, it would not have been so generically referred to as simply "the first of the week". When Luke recorded the special "day" of Pentecost, 9 verses later(Acts 20:16) we see that he was sure to be more formal, by specifically calling it "hemera/day".

Luke didn't see fit to make any special or specific note about the day which this occurred, but treated it very casually by simply telling us that it happened during the first of the week. But, for arguments sake, let's assume that it was Sunday. And then let's assess from the context, if this should be considered evidence of a substitution of Sabbath observance to the first day observance.

One must remember, in the Bible, a day begins when the sun goes down. This means that this meeting was held on what we know as Saturday night. That would make the next morning and afternoon the second part of the first day.

Surely we know that Paul would not have walked eighteen miles from Traos to Assos on the first day if it had been the new holy day. Much less then boarded a boat and continue to travel to Mitylene and finally on to Chios. Paul was a lifelong Sabbath keeper and if the first day was now the Sabbath, this journey would have been contrary to his character. Paul actually was keeping Sabbath by waiting until the first day to continue his “work“.



People also mention that the breaking of bread proves that a communion service was held. In Mat. 14:19 Christ broke bread to feed the multitudes, even though there is no mention of communion or Sabbath.

Also it tells us in Acts 2:46 that they went to the temple and broke bread from house to house "daily", yet there is no mention of communion or Sabbath. Therefore, "breaking bread" was simply a term of eating and fellowship and was never exclusively associated with communion, or a specific day.

The final conviction that some have with these verses is that Paul was preaching on this day. There are many instances of the gospel being taught and preached on non-specific days as well as daily.

One example is in Mark 2:1-2 another is Luke 19:47-20:1 where it clearly indicates that Christ himself taught and preached daily.

There is no significance given to the day, the breaking of bread, nor the preaching, they are merely mentioned. The focus of the story is about Eutychus, his accident, and his resurrection.

 

[adam332]

We see the speculation that Sunday advocates promote and we see the truth of the matter as revealed in the scriptures.

Let's look at some facts about Acts they they prefer to overlook....

Below we see both Gentile and Jew coming together on the Sabbath , years after the death and resurrection of Christ.

Acts 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.

 

[adam332]

Your not under the law, huh? Let's examine what Paul means by this shall we?
__________
__________

Often we hear this argument in an effort to belittle the law of God: "Well, since we are not under the law but under grace, we do not need to keep the Ten Commandments any longer." Is this a valid point? The Bible certainly does say that we are not under the law, but does that imply that we are free from the obligation to obey it? The text is found in Romans 6:14, 15. "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid."

How easily we could prevent confusion if we accepted exactly what the Bible says. Paul gives his own explanation of his statement. After stating that we are not under the law but under grace, he asks, "What then?" This simply means, "How are we to understand this?" Then notice his answer. In anticipation that some will construe his words to mean that you can break the law because you are under grace, he says, "Shall we sin (break the law) because we are not under the law but under grace? God forbid." In the strongest possible language Paul states that being under grace does not give a license to break the law. Yet this is exactly what millions believe today, and they totally ignore Paul's specific warning.

If being under grace does not exempt us from keeping the law, then what does Paul mean by saying that Christians are not under the law? He gives that answer in Romans 3:19. "Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God." Here Paul equates being under the law with "being guilty before God." In other words, those who are under the law are guilty of breaking it and are under the condemnation of it. This is why Christians are not under it. They are not breaking it - not guilty and condemned by it. Therefore, they are not under it, but are under the power of grace instead. Later in his argument, Paul points out that the power of grace is greater than the power of sin. This is why he states so emphatically, "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace." Grace overrules the authority of sin, giving power to obey God's law. This is the effective reason that we are not under the law's guilt and condemnation and also why Paul states that we will not continue to sin.

Suppose a murderer has been sentenced to death in the electric chair. Waiting for the execution the man would truly be under the law in every sense of the word - under the guilt, under the condemnation, under the sentence of death, etc. Just before the execution date the governor reviews the condemned man's case and decides to pardon him. In the light of extenuating circumstances the governor exercises his prerogative and sends a full pardon to the prisoner. Now he is no longer under the law but under grace. The law no longer condemns him. He is considered totally justified as far as the charges of the law are concerned. He is free to walk out of the prison and not a policeman can lay hands upon him. But now that he is under grace and no longer under the law, can we say that he is free to break the law? Indeed not! In fact, that pardoned man will be doubly obligated to obey the law because he has found grace from the governor. In gratitude and love he will be very careful to honour the law of that state which granted him grace. Is that what the Bible says about pardoned sinners? "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." Romans 3:31. Here is the most explicit answer to the entire problem. Paul asks if the law is nullified for us just because we have had faith in Christ's saving grace. His answer is that the law is established and reinforced in the life of a grace-saved Christian.

The truth of this is so simple and obvious that it should require no repetition, but the devious reasoning of those who try to avoid obedience makes it necessary to press this point a bit further. Have you ever been stopped by a policeman for exceeding the speed limit? It is an embarrassing experience, especially if you know you are guilty. But suppose you really were hurrying to meet a valid emergency, and you pour out your convincing explanation to the policeman as he writes your ticket. Slowly he folds the ticket and tears it up. Then he says, "All right, I'm going to pardon you this time, but ..." Now what do you think he means by that word "but"? Surely he means, "but I don't want to ever catch you speeding again." Does this pardon (grace) open the way for you to disobey the law? On the contrary, it adds compelling urgency to your decision not to disobey the law again. Why, then, should any true Christian try to rationalise his way out of obeying the law of God? "If ye love me," Jesus said, "keep my commandments." John 14:15.

 

[gathrdbygrc]

Adam,
I said;
"Second, the Lord began to meet with His disciples on the first day of the week after His resurrection."

You said:That's false.

I said;
"In Acts we read that the early church also gathered on the first day of the week."

You said: That is also false.

9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils. 10 And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept. 11 And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not. 12 After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country. 13 And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them.

14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

 

[bjh]

Regarding Acts 20:7



Luke didn't see fit to make any special or specific note about the day which this occurred, but treated it very casually by simply telling us that it happened during the first of the week. But, for arguments sake, let's assume that it was Sunday. And then let's assess from the context, if this should be considered evidence of a substitution of Sabbath observance to the first day observance.

One must remember, in the Bible, a day begins when the sun goes down. This means that this meeting was held on what we know as Saturday night. That would make the next morning and afternoon the second part of the first day.

Assuming Luke simply said "the first of the week". We'd certainly not be talking about the Sabbath (or "last of the week") no matter when it started (evening or morning). Even if the meeting happened on what we consider Saturday night, it would no longer be the Sabbath, but rather the first part of Sunday (the beginning of the next day & week).

 

[gathrdbygrc]

Adam,
I don't believe it is an accident that the Holy Spirit chose the words "first day of the week". No matter how we might choose to construe it, to them it was the first day of the week. Also Pentecost, the day which the church was first formed, fell on the first day of the week.
Ross

 

[adam332]

The accounts of the resurrection are not Early church meetings...the disciples didn't even believe he was risen and were gathered in fear of the Jews...not to observe a resurrection that didn't know about or believe even happened.

 

[adam332]

The problem is that "the first of the week" could have been what we call Sunday night. Which would have made it technically the 2nd day. As I said...Luke gave it no significance to even point out what day it was...yet, many of you choose it as a source for doctrine.

 

[Symes]

Bro Brown

7On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight. 8There were many lamps in the upstairs room where we were meeting. (Acts 20:7)

There is nothing here to say that we must keep the first day of the week. In other passages in Acts it says they break bread daily. The breaking of bread was a meal. Now if Paul was in fact keeping the first day of the week as his Sabbath then the Jews would have ripped him apart. He was going on a long journey, he was going to catch a boat. Hardly the type of thing the early Christians would have done on the Sabbath. In fact this was Saturday night not even Sunday.

 

[bjh]

Bro Brown

7On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight. 8There were many lamps in the upstairs room where we were meeting. (Acts 20:7)

There is nothing here to say that we must keep the first day of the week. In other passages in Acts it says they break bread daily. The breaking of bread was a meal. Now if Paul was in fact keeping the first day of the week as his Sabbath then the Jews would have ripped him apart. He was going on a long journey, he was going to catch a boat. Hardly the type of thing the early Christians would have done on the Sabbath. In fact this was Saturday night not even Sunday.

What I think is interesting about Acts 20:7, is that it doesn't just say "on the first day of the week we came together...." Rather it says "on the first day of the week when we were gathered together..."

This would seem to imply that the readers would know exactly what time the events happened. E.g., if I were to say, "Yesterday, when I watched the Rams beat the Browns," if you're a football fan, you'd know that I meant sometime after 8:00 CST and before 11:30 CST. I submit that by the time Acts was written, "meeting together on the first of the week" had become practice and that Luke's readers knew exactly when these events happened.

==
Update, forgive me, I didn't notice the Australia flag. Let me use a different example..."Yesterday, when the sun came up..." You know exactly what when - the morning - it happens every day.
==

What we need to realize is that, no, it was not Saturday. It was in fact Sunday (or maybe Monday, "day" here is implied, but see above comment.)- It was what they considered the first of the week. Sure, it may have been what we consider Saturday, but that is unimportant. For them, Saturday was over - the new week had begun.

By the way, the Jews didn't like Paul, much. (Acts 14:19; Acts 17:13-14; Acts 18:12-13; etc.) Why? "he persuades men to worship God contrary to the law." (Acts 18:13) Speculation: might that have included worshipping on Sunday?

 

[Bro_Brown11233]

We all live under the gospel of Christ today, not the law of the Old Testament, including the Sabbath law given to Israel (Col. 2:14-17; 2 Cor. 3:14; Gal. 3:24-25).

The 7 day Adventists have twisted the word of God To their own demise (2 Pet. 3:16; Gal. 1:8-9).

Please consider the following from God's word to See why I am giving you such a warning.

The Sabbath law was given to Israel by God at Mt. Sinai -- not at the Beginning of time to all men as Sabbatarians purport (Exo. 20:8; Neh.9:13-14). It was given to the nation of Israel as a sign of the covenant. Between God and the nation of Israel (Exo. 31:12-18; Deut. 5:15).

You must understand that we do not live under the law which God gave toIsrael through Moses -- we are to hear Christ Jesus (Matt. 17:1-5; Heb.1:1-2; Matt. 28:18). We do not live under the 10 commandments -- they were A part of a law given only to Israel, which distinguished them from all the Other nations (Exo. 19:5-6; Exo. 20:1ff). That law was removed by Christ. And now all men are under His gospel (Mk. 16:15).

Everyone one of the 10 commandments are renewed -- and even strengthened.

In the gospel of Christ (cf. Matt. 5:17ff). Every one, that is, except the Sabbath command. This is not surprising, since it was a command to Israel As a sign between God and Israel -- only. Yes, Jesus was raised on the first day of the week (Lk. 24:1, 7, 21). In NT Times Christians gathered on the first day of the week to "break bread" (the Lord's Supper) and worship together (Acts 20:7; cf. 1 Cor. 16:2). It is Undeniable that NT Christians assembled together, not on the 7th day Sabbath), but on the 1st day of the week.

The Bible never calls Sunday the "Christian Sabbath." Since such a term is Never found in the Scriptures we should not be used if we intend to "speak As the oracles of God" (1 Pet. 4:11).

Bro Brown

 

[Symes]

Acts 20:7
"And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight."

We should not read into this text more than what it says. Why were they gathered on the first day of the week?

Because paul was going to depart the next day.

When did this meeting take place?

Verse 8 tells us.

"And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together"

It was at night time. According to Jewish reckoning that would make it a Saturday night. Not Sunday at all.

If Paul considered Sunday as sacred then why would he spend the entire day travelling and not at worship.

Paul was a Sabbath keeper.

Acts 13:42-44
"As Paul and Barnabas left the meeting house the people said, `Tell us these things again next Sabbath day.'
43 The meeting was finished. There were many Jews, also those who were not Jews but worshipped God. They followed Paul and Barnabas. Paul and Barnabus kept talking to the people and told them to keep on living in the way that will bring God's blessing.
44 The next Sabbath day almost all of the people in that city gathered to hear God's word."

Acts 17:2
"As he had done in other places, Paul went into it. On three Sabbath days he explained what was written in the holy writings."

Acts 16:13
"On the Sabbath day we went out of the city to the river. We thought this was a place where people met to talk with God. So we sat down and talked to the women who had come there."

Acts 18:4
"Every Sabbath day he talked with the people in the meeting place for the Jews. He tried to talk so that the Jews and the Greeks would believe"

In all of this it is plain to see that Paul was a Sabbath keeper. The Sabbath being the same Sabbath that the Jews kept. That being the seventh day of the week.

Update, forgive me, I didn't notice the Australia flag. Let me use a different example..."Yesterday, when the sun came up..." You know exactly what when - the morning - it happens every day.

Thanks for bringing that to my notice.

Amen to John's post.