Understanding the fake historian behind America’s religious right

[tulc]

ok...this is off topic but anyone ever read this:
https://www.amazon.com/Greek-Poison...&keywords=history+of+ancient+chemical+warfare
it's a lot of fun and very interesting!
tulc(we now resume our thread already in progress...)

 

[pat34lee]

I never voted for President Clinton, even once. I don't vote for people who I know cheated on their wife...even the second or third ones. I'm wondering if you can say the same thing?
tulc(is just curious)

I've never met anyone I voted for, so I
have no idea what they do in private
unless they make it a matter of record
by being caught abusing their authority
while in office.

 

[pat34lee]

I am not American and so did not vote for either.

I would never vote for a man like Trump in any case. Bragging of sexually assaulting women and bragging about being perverted peeping Tom on naked women as they change would be enough. And fact is that numerous underage girls say Trump did peeping Tom act on them as well. If true, this means Trump is a pedophile. Do you understand this?

I am not trying to be rude, but would like to be clear because of your post above and so to give you a chance to see the flaw in your logic. Please answer the following question (Which I am sure you will answer correctly because of your good morals): Do you think that pedophelia is acceptable, because no one is perfect?

Donald Trump boasted about meeting semi-naked teenagers

Do you go to the beach? There are a lot of half-naked
underage girls out there. There are even nude beaches
where they are completely naked. Is every adult at them
guilty of pedophilia? There have even been threads on
this forum trying to justify the practice for Christians.

 

[mark kennedy]

Understanding the fake historian behind America’s religious right

tulc(MAGA by pushing a fake "America history"?)

I didn't really get the point of the article. Sam Brownback likes the writings of David Baton:

Meanwhile, Barton is best-known for a series of books, including Original Intent: The Courts, The Constitution, and Religion and The Jefferson Lies, that argue America was founded by evangelical Christians as a Christian nation, and that the Founding Fathers intended for America to be run on Christian principles. He’s also known for his lobbying group, WallBuilders, which attempts to bring Christianity into American public life by highlighting what he says is “forgotten history.” (Understanding the fake historian behind America’s religious right. Vox)
​

Long before there was talk of a wall between the US and Mexico, deeply religious Americans wanted a wall between church and state. That wasn't secular language, Jefferson's 'wall of separation', was a common theological metaphor for religion being beyond the pale of governmental influence. The early and newly formed United States was profoundly Christian and this fact of history has been buried by revisionists for decades.

Alexis De Tocqueville was the first European scholar to make a critical and exhaustive examination of the new commonwealth established in the Western Hemisphere. I strongly suggest if anyone is interested in the true history of the United States and the foundational element of Christianity read the work of an historian who critically examined our republic in its infancy. Notice how he contrasts the positive and moral influence Christianity had here as compared to the despair and misery skepticism created in his native France:

There are persons in France who look upon republican institutions as a temporary means of power…When these men attack religious opinions, they obey the dictates of their passions to the prejudice of their interests. Despotism may govern without faith, but liberty cannot…

In France I had almost always seen the spirit of religion and the spirit of freedom pursuing courses diametrically opposed to each other; but in America I found that they were intimately united…they mainly attributed the peaceful dominion of religion in their country to the separation of Church and State. I do not hesitate to affirm that during my stay in America I did not meet with a single individual, of the clergy or of the laity, who was not of the same opinion upon this point…

They are carried away by an imperceptible current which they have not the courage to stem, but which they follow with regret, since it bears them from a faith they love, to a skepticism that plunges them into despair. (Democracy in America, Alexis De Tocqueville)
​

Vox seems to be consenting to a revisionist history, the strongest influence in the newly founded United States was deeply Christian. The key to that influence was and is the separation of church and state. That may be forgotten over time but it won't change the facts of history.

 

[tulc]

I've never met anyone I voted for, so I
have no idea what they do in private
unless they make it a matter of record
by being caught abusing their authority
while in office.

Oh...2 things come to mind:
1) would paying a inappropriate content star $130,000 not to talk about an affair they had right after his third wife had their son be considered "in public" and be something you'd see as cheating?
and
2) I didn't say anything about "abusing their authority while in office" I said I don't vote for people who cheat on their wives (no matter which one they're on at the time).
tulc(is just wondering)

 

[Root of Jesse]

Understanding the fake historian behind America’s religious right

tulc(MAGA by pushing a fake "America history"?)

I don't think he's the originator of the "Religious Right" viewpoint, though he's probably a proponent. I know I get my knowledge of the US's Christian roots from the works of the founders of our country.
I think it's funny that a non-Catholic is making a point of accuracy in someone's historic viewpoint.

 

[Root of Jesse]

If you feel the need to discuss the history of the Democrat Party shouldn't you start a thread about that instead of posting about it in a thread not about it's history?
tulc(see's we've had the "ad hominen" response and the "try and distract by attacking someone else" response wonder what will be third?)

Here come the thread police...

 

[Root of Jesse]

Oh...2 things come to mind:
1) would paying a inappropriate content star $130,000 not to talk about an affair they had right after his third wife had their son be considered "in public" and be something you'd see as cheating?

Why are you dissing Trump's lawyer? Did he cheat on his wife?

and
2) I didn't say anything about "abusing their authority while in office" I said I don't vote for people who cheat on their wives (no matter which one they're on at the time).
tulc(is just wondering)

What about those who enable their cheating husband, do they fall inside your criteria?

 

[Archivist]

Do you go to the beach? There are a lot of half-naked underage girls out there. There are even nude beaches where they are completely naked. Is every adult at them guilty of pedophilia? There have even been threads on this forum trying to justify the practice for Christians.

There is a big difference between women wearing bikinis or, where it is allowed, willingly going topless or nude on a public beach and being ogled by a man while they are changing in a room that is supposed to be off-limits to men.

 

[tulc]

Why are you dissing Trump's lawyer? Did he cheat on his wife?

maybe, but then I'm not sure he's running for any office either. I do know that when he said that? The inappropriate content star then let it be known she felt free to discuss her affair with President Trump.

What about those who enable their cheating husband, do they fall inside your criteria?

...is The First Lady running for office and I don't know about it? Because I don't think she's actually eligible to be President if that's the job she's running for.
tulc(is pretty sure she would probably be a better President then her husband the law is still the law)

 

[drjean]

In this analysis of the genocide rhetoric employed over the years by Ward Churchill, an ethnic studies professor at the University of Colorado, a "distressing" conclusion is reached: Churchill has habitually committed multiple counts of research misconduct—specifically, fabrication and falsification. While acknowledging the "politicization" of the topic and evidence of other outrages committed against Native American tribes in times past, this study examines the different versions of the "smallpox blankets" episode published by Churchill between 1994 and 2003. The "preponderance of evidence" standard of proof strongly indicates that Churchill fabricated events that never occurred—namely the U.S. Army's alleged distribution of smallpox infested blankets to the Mandan Indians in 1837. The analysis additionally reveals that Churchill falsified sources to support his fabricated version of events, and also concealed evidence in his cited sources that actually disconfirms, rather than substantiates, his allegations of genocide.

Did the U.S. Army Distribute Smallpox Blankets to Indians? Fabrication and Falsification in Ward Churchill's Genocide Rhetoric

If one does a search for what one believes, that is what google will give one...times ten thousand. Try postulating the opposing view and google that and read... one can make a more informed decision then imo.

 

[pat34lee]

Oh...2 things come to mind:
1) would paying a inappropriate content star $130,000 not to talk about an affair they had right after his third wife had their son be considered "in public" and be something you'd see as cheating?
and
2) I didn't say anything about "abusing their authority while in office" I said I don't vote for people who cheat on their wives (no matter which one they're on at the time).
tulc(is just wondering)

1. As Trump didn't pay her, no. His lawyer did, and many
rich people pay rather than go to court. It's cheaper, even
if they're innocent of any wrongdoing, and there is less press.

2. How do you know who cheats and who doesn't? All we
know is what gets reported in the news and in gossip rags.
Sometimes they are the same thing.

 

[pat34lee]

There is a big difference between women wearing bikinis or, where it is allowed, willingly going topless or nude on a public beach and being ogled by a man while they are changing in a room that is supposed to be off-limits to men.

Who told you that room was off-limits to men?

 

[Archivist]

Who told you that room was off-limits to men?

Do you commonly walk into women's changing rooms? To me that is just common sense, men don't go in. Trump should know that.

On the Howard Stern Show in 2005 Trump said the following: “I’ll go backstage before a show, and everyone’s getting dressed and ready and everything else,” he said. “And you know, no men are anywhere. And I’m allowed to go in because I’m the owner of the pageant. And therefore I’m inspecting it.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-on-naked-contestants/?utm_term=.b5e46d91499b

 

[Root of Jesse]

maybe, but then I'm not sure he's running for any office either. I do know that when he said that? The inappropriate content star then let it be known she felt free to discuss her affair with President Trump.

Ali Vitali on Twitter via the San Jose Mercury News.

...is The First Lady running for office and I don't know about it? Because I don't think she's actually eligible to be President if that's the job she's running for.
tulc(is pretty sure she would probably be a better President then her husband the law is still the law)

She most certainly was! The First Lady, Hillary Clinton, who ran for President. Mrs. Trump doesn't appear to be an enabler.

 

[Yonny Costopoulis]

Do you go to the beach? There are a lot of half-naked
underage girls out there. There are even nude beaches
where they are completely naked. Is every adult at them
guilty of pedophilia? There have even been threads on
this forum trying to justify the practice for Christians.

No. You are trying make conflation. Please stop and make a honest look.

If you read what the women said, Trump barged in on topless children. This matches what Trump himself has said. Trump has bragged that he likes to sneak in to see young women of his pageant naked. Trump was bragging about being a perverted Peeping Tom. And numerous women are speaking out to say Trump did same to children.

You do not seem to understand that there is a difference between children at the beach in their bathingsuits, and children being naked when they are changing. You appear to be defending Trump doing perverted peeping tom behavior. Is this so?

 

[pat34lee]

Do you commonly walk into women's changing rooms? To me that is just common sense, men don't go in. Trump should know that.

On the Howard Stern Show in 2005 Trump said the following: “I’ll go backstage before a show, and everyone’s getting dressed and ready and everything else,” he said. “And you know, no men are anywhere. And I’m allowed to go in because I’m the owner of the pageant. And therefore I’m inspecting it.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-on-naked-contestants/?utm_term=.b5e46d91499b

Backstage is not in the dressing rooms. If people
are running around half-naked there, that is their
problem, not whoever else is around. They do the
same things in Vegas.

 

[pat34lee]

No. You are trying make conflation. Please stop and make a honest look.
If you read what the women said, Trump barged in on topless children.

I hate to tell you, but Miss America contenders are
hardly children. Most have been doing pageants for
their whole lives before the big contest, so there is
nothing new at this one. I don't think you can show
that Trump went anywhere that other men didn't go.
As I said in the previous post, backstage is not the
same as in the dressing rooms.

 

[Yonny Costopoulis]

I hate to tell you, but Miss America contenders are
hardly children. Most have been doing pageants for
their whole lives before the big contest, so there is
nothing new at this one. I don't think you can show
that Trump went anywhere that other men didn't go.
As I said in the previous post, backstage is not the
same as in the dressing rooms.

I am talking about Miss Teen USA contestants. According to numerous women present, Trump went to where there were naked young teens. Trump has bragged on radio that he likes to do perverted peeping tom behavior on contestants at his beauty pageants, so this is not out of character for Trump.

As far as I know this form of behavior of trying to peep on naked children is a form of pedophelia, and I do not think this is "normal". Can you provide evidence that this sort of behavior is normal? Do you know people who do this?

 

[Archivist]

Backstage is not in the dressing rooms. If people
are running around half-naked there, that is their problem, not whoever else is around. They do the
same things in Vegas.

Apparently you did not bother reading the article I posted. It specifically said it was a dressing room. These women were not just wandering around backstage while naked.