Understanding praying to saints

[MrPolo]

A handy chart to dispel misconceptions about praying to saints, which means to ask them for intercession just as you would your neighbor, as Paul did in (Rm 15:30, et al).

Explanation to follow....

 

[MrPolo]

In this handy little chart, Person A prays to God. Person A asks Person B for intercession (marked by the red arrow). Person B prays to God for Person A. What some call heresy or worship is the red arrow, where Person A asks Person B for intercession. That is what is meant by asking the saints for intercession, or what is called praying to saints. Some have strangely called this worship (probably because they didn't understand what praying to saints meant). Person B is any member of the Body of Christ, your neighbor, a saint in heaven, Mary, an angel, etc...

So you see, there is no Person B INSTEAD of God. Instead you either have 2 people praying for an intention, which is good. Or you have someone very holy in heaven praying for your intention, which is also good since the prayer of the righteous is very powerful (Jm 5:16, 1 Pet 3:12).

In other words, anyone who refuses to ask saints or angels to pray for them or with them is not utilizing the great graces these members of the Body of Christ have been given!!!

 

[Dorothea]

Thanks, MrPolo.

 

[Dorothea]

This experience with a Saint from a man being interviewed by Frederica Matthews-Greene is wonderful. Here's the link:

A Visit From St. Seraphim - Frederica Here and Now - Ancient Faith Radio

 

[E.C.]

A handy chart to dispel misconceptions about praying to saints, which means to ask them for intercession just as you would your neighbor, as Paul did in (Rm 15:30, et al).

Explanation to follow....

Nice chart

Got it hand it to the Roman folks for making good charts like this!


Let us not forget that in Christ, death is not a barrier.

 

[simonthezealot]

Necromancy

 

[GailMc]

Ummmmmmmmmmm...........I'll add this: But the souls of the just are in the hand of God, and no torment shall touch them. They seemed, in the view of the foolish, to be dead; and their passing away was judged an affliction and their going forth from us, utter destruction. But they are in peace. For if before men, indeed, they be punished, yet is their hope full of immortality; chastised a little, they shall be greatly blessed, because God tried them and found them worthy of himself. As gold in the furnace, he proved them and as sacrificial offerings he took them to himself. In the time of their visitation they shall shine, and shall dart about as sparks in stubble; they shall judge nations and rule over peoples, and the Lord shall be their King forever!!!!!! From the Book of Wisdom, Chapter 3, verses 1 to 8.

I like the part about them shining in their time of visitation! Now how does one "visit" with a Saint? Why praying to them of course! Have a nice conversation with your favorite Saint and pleeeeeeease don't forget their Queen either! That's why I underlined the full of immortality part - get it? Full of grace/full of immortality?!? I rely on the graces of Mary most of all in my prayer life. ummm is that too far a stretch for some? Isn't there a Greek word that explains full of grace? I can't spell it right. I think it is theotokos, but I'm not sure on the spelling. Anyone know Greek for full of immortality? Oh dear!

Peace and all good,

Gail

 

[seashale76]

Necromancy

You obviously have no concept of what necromancy is. The very definition of necromancy implies conjuring and speaking with the dead in order to predict the future. It's a form of divination.

Prayer of the saints = not necromancy

If you're going to construct an argument against it, at least use a good one.

 

[simonthezealot]

How do you know if they are praying for you or not?

You don't.

Honestly they cannot hear you, but there are many other spirits who will listen and come to deceive.

 

[simonthezealot]

God speaks to me frequently, my mom or dad NOPE.

 

[seashale76]

How do you know if they are praying for you or not?

You don't.

Honestly they cannot hear you, but there are many other spirits who will listen and come to deceive.

We've been through this before on other threads. I know you've seen it, but it bears repeating.

The God I worship is the God of the living. The saints of the Church are ALIVE in Christ. I will ask them to pray for me, as I ask my other brothers and sisters in Christ to pray for me, and I them.

John 6:47-51
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. I am that bread of life. Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”


John 5:25-29
“Truly, truly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself, and has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of man. Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment.


Matthew 27:51-53
“And behold, the veil of the sanctuary was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth quaked, rocks were split, tombs were opened, and the bodies of many saints who had fallen asleep were raised. And coming forth from their tombs after his resurrection, they entered the holy city and appeared to many.”

John 11:23-27
“Jesus said to her, ‘Your brother will rise.’ Martha said to him, ‘I know he will rise, in the resurrection on the last day.’ ”

“Jesus told her, ‘I am the resurrection and the life; whoever believes in me, even if he dies, will live, and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?’ ” She said to him, ‘Yes, Lord. I have come to believe that you are the Messiah, the Son of God, ...’ ”

Matthew 22:32
“ ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”


Luke 20:38
“and he is not God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.”




Revelation 21:27
“ … but nothing unclean will enter it, nor any (one) who does abominable things or tells lies. Only those will enter whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.”


John 8:51
“Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever keeps my word will never see death.”


Revelation 5:8-10
“… and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints; and they sang a new song, saying, ‘Worthy art thou to take the scroll and to open its seals, for thou wast slain and by thy blood didst ransom men for God from every tribe and tongue and people and nation,10 and hast made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on earth.’ ”



Revelation 11:16-18
“And the twenty-four elders who sit on their thrones before God fell on their faces and worshiped God, saying, ‘We give thanks to thee, Lord God Almighty, who art and who wast, that thou hast taken thy great power and begun to reign. The nations raged, but thy wrath came, and the time for the dead to be judged, for rewarding thy servants, the prophets and saints, and those who fear thy name, both small and great, and for destroying the destroyers of the earth.’ ”


Hebrews 12:1
“Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us rid ourselves of every burden and sin that clings to us and persevere in running the race that lies before us"


Luke 15:7
“I tell you, in just the same way there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous people who have no need of repentance.”



Hebrews 12:22-23"No, you have approached Mount Zion and the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and countless angels in festal gathering,
and the assembly of the firstborn enrolled in heaven, and God the judge of all, and the spirits of the just made perfect,"


Revelation 8:3
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]“I saw another angel who came and stood before the altar holding a golden censer and much incense was given to him that he might add it to the prayers of the saints upon the golden altar that was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense with the prayers of the saints went up before God out of the angel’s hand. And the angel took the censer and he filled it with the fire from the altar and threw it to the earth and there followed peals of thunder, and sounds and flashes of lightning and an earthquake."


[/FONT]

 

[E.C.]

How do you know if they are praying for you or not?

You don't.

Hebrews 11:1.


As well as seashale's post above.

 

[MrPolo]

there are many other spirits who will listen and come to deceive.

Hmmmm...fallen angels? I'm guessing you think fallen angels can hear us but not holy angels?? If not, then you Simon can ask angels for intercession!!

 

[simonthezealot]

Hebrews 11:1.


As well as seashale's post above.

I don't get what your getting at..
Hebrews 11

By Faith

1Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

 

[simonthezealot]

Hmmmm...fallen angels? I'm guessing you think fallen angels can hear us but not holy angels?? If not, then you Simon can ask angels for intercession!!

 

[simonthezealot]

Invoking the intercession of dead saints...
=
Necromancy

 

[simonthezealot]

prayer to the saints is repugnant to the "Word of God"

 

[Dorothea]

Invoking the intercession of dead saints...
=
Necromancy

Seashale and others here have told you that is incorrect. First off, the bolded is incorrect. They're not dead.

 

[seashale76]

Seashale and others here have told you that is incorrect. First off, the bolded is incorrect. They're not dead.

Exactly.

Also, I must add that people who persist in clinging to their false conceptions once they've been told and shown countless times that their conceptions of others are erroneous are willfully dealing in prevarication.

 

[E.C.]

I don't get what your getting at..
Hebrews 11

By Faith

1Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

For somebody who comes from a "Faith Alone" background, this should be something very easy to grasp.

Try the KJV. Same verse, better translation.