Understanding Isaiah 66:7-8, the 144,000, the rest of the Jews, the man-child

[Douggg]

Isaiah 66:7
7 Before she travailed, she brought forth [the 144,000] ;

before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child. [Jesus]

The man child in that verse is Jesus. The same man child as in Isaiah 9:6.

Before she travailed in bringing forth her children, before her pain came - which is the pain of going through the great tribulation, 2000 years later, in the end times....

...Jesus, the deliverer, was born to Israel, which took place historically, 2000 years ago. The historic verses of Revelation 12:1-5, Jesus is the man child in those verses as well.. The remainder of Revelation 12:6-17 is end times, when Satan will be cast down to earth in the early parts of the great tribulation.

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Next verse, Isaiah 66:8, is about the end times, When the Jews come out of the nations and Israel becomes a nation in the land again, born as such, in one day on May 14, 1948.

Isaiah 66:8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children (the rest of the Jews)

The 144,000 in verse 7
The rest of the Jews in verse 8

The 144,000, sealed in Revelation 7:3-4 are the firstfuits, Revelation 14:4, the special group of Jews saved before the judgements of God begin - i.e. before the trumpet judgments and the bowls of God's wrath judgments get going in full swing once the great tribulation begins.

The 144,000 Jews are in Isaiah 66:7 "before Zion travailed".
The rest of the Jews are in Isaiah 66:8 "as soon as Zion travailed".

So all Israel will be saved, as it says in Romans 11.

What it boils down to is that the rest of the Jews will turn to Jesus, the deliverer, and the gospel of salvation in the early beginnings, i.e. as soon as Zion travailed, of the great tribulation - which will begin when the abomination of desolation statue image is placed on the temple mount.

Those are the ones in Revelation 12:10.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

 

[Douggg]

If I wasn't clear, Isaiah 66:7-8 is telling when the Jews turn to Jesus. In a two step process. First the 144,000. Then the rest of the Jews.

 

[keras]

Isaiah 66:7
7 Before she travailed, she brought forth [the 144,000] ;

before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child. [Jesus]

The man child in that verse is Jesus. The same man child as in Isaiah 9:6.

Your interpretation of Isaiah 66 is wrong. That Prophecy is about the holy Land, Zion and how the inhabitants of that Land have displeased God.
The son, referred to in verse 7-8, refers to a people group, a country, a nation, who will be the followers of Jesus, Prophesied in Isaiah 62:1-5, as God's Plans are brought to fruition, by the removal of all the ungodly and Jesus rejecting peoples from all of the holy Land - as vividly described in:
Isaiah 66:6 The uproar you can hear, is the sound of the Lord dealing retribution to His enemies, and in Jeremiah 12:14, +
The smashing strike of the Sixth Seal, that will virtually depopulate the entire Middle East. Zephaniah 1:1-18

WE Christians will be the people who will rejoice in Jerusalem, who will be prosperous and be glad, as the Lord makes His power known among His servants and His indignation strikes His foes. Isaiah 66:14

Isaiah 66:15-18a, describes the Sixth Seal, the forthcoming great test by fire upon all mankind. 1 Peter 4:12

Isaiah 18b-21, then describes the gathering of all the faithful Christian peoples, from every tribe, race, nation and language. The 144.000 are then selected from them; Revelation 7:1-9, Revelation 14:1-7 [the 'angel' there is a metaphor for them, Their precursor is in Luke 10:1-12]
Some will be priests in the new Temple.

The Jews, the House of Judah, will have no further doings in the end times. the remnant will be so ashamed of their apostasy, they won't even speak. Ezekiel 16:63

 

[Douggg]

The son, referred to in verse 7-8, refers to a people group, a country, a nation, who will be the followers of Jesus,

Not even. The man-child is singular. And is Jesus Himself.

The 144,000 in Revelation 7 are not gentiles, but are in the text are the children of the twelve tribes of Israel.

That whole replacement theology scenario of yours doesn't work, keras.

 

[keras]

The man-child is singular. And is Jesus Himself.

You confuse Revelation 12:1-5 with Isaiah 66. They are about different things. Isaiah 66:7 is referring to a new nation, yet to occupy the holy Land. As Isaiah 52:1-5 describes.
They will be Christians, so the use of 'son', is appropriate.

The 144,000 in Revelation 7 are not gentiles, but are in the text are the children of the twelve tribes of Israel.

Tell me who you think represent the 12 Tribes of Israel? The Bible describes them as being as many as the sands of the sea and, scattered around the world and have lost their knowledge of their ancestry.

That whole replacement theology scenario of yours doesn't work, keras.

God's Plan for His chosen people will work very well. Isaiah 27:6, Isaiah 11:11-13. +

 

[Douggg]

You confuse Revelation 12:1-5 with Isaiah 66. They are about different things. Isaiah 66:7 is referring to a new nation, yet to occupy the holy Land. As Isaiah 52:1-5 describes.
They will be Christians, so the use of 'son', is appropriate.

So you sisters in Christ - are really men ? Christians are both men and women, of all kindreds, tongues, and people.

The use of the word son is because the man-child is Jesus.

The verses are talking about Zion, another name for Israel.

Tell me who you think represent the 12 Tribes of Israel? The Bible describes them as being as many as the sands of the sea and, scattered around the world and have lost their knowledge of their ancestry.

I don't have a list by name of any of the 144,000. They are Jews though. The Jews have informed me that most of them do not know their tribal lineage, to know which of the twelve tribes they belong to. They say their particular tribe will be revealed to them by the messiah.

 

[keras]

The verses are talking about Zion, another name for Israel.

Isaiah 66:6-14 is talking about the holy Land and the people God wants to live in it.

I don't have a list by name of any of the 144,000. They are Jews though.

It is impossible for the Jews to represent all of the 12 tribes of Israel. Jews represent only Judah, Benjamin and part of Levi.
Ezekiel 37:15-28 remains unfulfilled.

You still seem unable to read and understand the Prophesies that say the Jews will be Judged and punished and only a remnant will survive.
The fanciful idea of a rapture to heaven, is never going to happen and the Jews will never repent of their sins. Isaiah 22:14, Mark 7:6-9

 

[Douggg]

It is impossible for the Jews to represent all of the 12 tribes of Israel. Jews represent only Judah, Benjamin and part of Levi.
Ezekiel 37:15-28 remains unfulfilled.

keras, why don't you go to a Jewish webstie and ask them who is a Jew. They are going to tell you, a Jew is someone who's mother is a Jew. Which of the twelve tribes they belong to depends upon the person's father side, what tribe he is of. The issue is that most of the fathers themselves do not know what tribe they belong to. For that reason, the Jews believe that the messiah will tell them what tribe they are of.

 

[keras]

go to a Jewish webstie and ask them who is a Jew.

An Israeli citizen is anyone who claims to be Jewish and practises Judaism. NONE of them have the real proof of a family line back to Jacob.

I have presented the facts of how the 10 Northern tribes remain scattered around the world. Jesus came to save them, Matthew 15:24, the Jews rejected Him and cursed themselves. The Jewish State of Israel is one of the most anti-Christian places on earth. What should God do with them? About 20 Prophesies tell us.
why do you fail to read and understand them?

Jesus will assign His faithful Christian people to one of the 12 tribes, according to their individual characteristics. John sees us in Jerusalem, Rev 7:9

 

[Douggg]

An Israeli citizen is anyone who claims to be Jewish and practises Judaism. NONE of them have the real proof of a family line back to Jacob.

Being an Israeli citizen is not the issue. There are Arabs who are muslims that are Israeli citizens. There are Jews who are Christians that are Israeli citizens.

A Jew is someone who's mother is a Jew. The tribe affiliation goes by the father, what tribe he belongs to. The Jews passed their children of Israel identity down generation to generation by their religion and culture and Hebrew language.

 

[Douggg]

Jesus will assign His faithful Christian people to one of the 12 tribes, according to their individual characteristics. John sees us in Jerusalem, Rev 7:9

The ones in Revelation 7:9 are in heaven.

Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

 

[keras]

A Jew is someone who's mother is a Jew.

A Jew is someone whose mother claimed to be a Jew.
In Jesus time,. they had the genealogy records kept in the Temple. All destroyed in 70AD. Since then; there have been many Edomites Khasars, etc, who have joined with Judah.
In the time of Revelation 7, the Lord will show us who the real descendants of Judah are.

The ones in Revelation 7:9 are in heaven.

This is a false and unbiblical assertion.
Rev 7 is a Prophecy about earthly things. Gods Throne can be here if He wills it.

 

[David Kent]

An Israeli citizen is anyone who claims to be Jewish and practises Judaism. NONE of them have the real proof of a family line back to Jacob.

I have presented the facts of how the 10 Northern tribes remain scattered around the world. Jesus came to save them, Matthew 15:24, the Jews rejected Him and cursed themselves. The Jewish State of Israel is one of the most anti-Christian places on earth. What should God do with them? About 20 Prophesies tell us.
why do you fail to read and understand them?

Jesus will assign His faithful Christian people to one of the 12 tribes, according to their individual characteristics. John sees us in Jerusalem, Rev 7:9

Some of all the tribes are scattered around the world. Some of the northern tribes returned under Cyrus as the offer was to all who wanted to return. Also there is NT evidence.

 

[David Kent]

The ones in Revelation 7:9 are in heaven.

Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

Revelation is Symbolic,

Those who washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb are Christians, not Jews. They came out of the great tribulation under Rome.

Revelation is written to the church. It is a further explanation of the 4th beast in Daniel 7.

 

[keras]

Some of all the tribes are scattered around the world. Some of the northern tribes returned under Cyrus as the offer was to all who wanted to return. Also there is NT evidence.

There is Biblical and historical evidence of how the ten Northern tribes migrated across Europe, Jeremiah 31:21, and from there; around the world.
God knows who they all are, Amos 9:9, and in the end times, He will gather them; Isaiah 11:11-13, Ezekiel 20:34-38

 

[David Kent]

1. There is at least one of the northern tribes represented in the new testament. So there can only be 9 at most.
2. Some of the 10 emigrated to Judah before the fall of Samaria.
3. Ezra 1:3 Who is there among you of all his people? his God be with him, and let him go up to Jerusalem, which is in Judah, and build the house of the LORD God of Israel, (he is the God,) which is in Jerusalem.
3a. The call was for ALL of God's people to return by Cyrus
4. Ezra 7:13 I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm, which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee.
4a. The call is again for ALL they of they of the people of Isarael to return by Artaxerxes/Darius.

 

[David Kent]

There is Biblical and historical evidence of how the ten Northern tribes migrated across Europe, Jeremiah 31:21, and from there; around the world.
God knows who they all are, Amos 9:9, and in the end times, He will gather them; Isaiah 11:11-13, Ezekiel 20:34-38

Those scriptures refer to all of the Israelites who are indeed spread all around the world.

 

[David Kent]

If 10 tribes were lost, how is it one lost tribe is present in the time of Jesus.

Isaiah 66:7
7 Before she travailed, she brought forth [the 144,000] ;

before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child. [Jesus]

The man child in that verse is Jesus. The same man child as in Isaiah 9:6.

Before she travailed in bringing forth her children, before her pain came - which is the pain of going through the great tribulation, 2000 years later, in the end times....

...Jesus, the deliverer, was born to Israel, which took place historically, 2000 years ago. The historic verses of Revelation 12:1-5, Jesus is the man child in those verses as well.. The remainder of Revelation 12:6-17 is end times, when Satan will be cast down to earth in the early parts of the great tribulation.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Next verse, Isaiah 66:8, is about the end times, When the Jews come out of the nations and Israel becomes a nation in the land again, born as such, in one day on May 14, 1948.

Isaiah 66:8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children (the rest of the Jews)

The 144,000 in verse 7
The rest of the Jews in verse 8

The 144,000, sealed in Revelation 7:3-4 are the firstfuits, Revelation 14:4, the special group of Jews saved before the judgements of God begin - i.e. before the trumpet judgments and the bowls of God's wrath judgments get going in full swing once the great tribulation begins.

The 144,000 Jews are in Isaiah 66:7 "before Zion travailed".
The rest of the Jews are in Isaiah 66:8 "as soon as Zion travailed".

So all Israel will be saved, as it says in Romans 11.

What it boils down to is that the rest of the Jews will turn to Jesus, the deliverer, and the gospel of salvation in the early beginnings, i.e. as soon as Zion travailed, of the great tribulation - which will begin when the abomination of desolation statue image is placed on the temple mount.

Those are the ones in Revelation 12:10.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

So Mary had 144 000 other children then the several mentioned in the new testament?

 

[Douggg]

If 10 tribes were lost, how is it one lost tribe is present in the time of Jesus.

So Mary had 144 000 other children then the several mentioned in the new testament?

Isaiah 66:7-8 is talking about Zion.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

 

[Douggg]

Revelation is Symbolic,

Those who washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb are Christians, not Jews. They came out of the great tribulation under Rome.

Revelation is written to the church. It is a further explanation of the 4th beast in Daniel 7.

Jews can be Christians just as well as Gentiles can be Christians.