Understanding Evolution (2)

[Loudmouth]

Nope a person would not mistake a chihuahua for a great dane. And no, they're not different life forms.

Then explain why you argued that chimps and humans are different life forms because people would not mistake one for the other?

If that is not a valid criteria for determining if two species are different life forms, then please tell us what criteria you are using. From where I sit, there are more differences between a chihuahua and a great dane than there is between humans and chimps. In fact, we see creationists claim that all birds are the same life forms. They see no problem lumping a hummingbird and an ostrich together, but they fail to see that chimps and humans are more alike than hummingbirds and ostriches.

 

[selfinflikted]

Then explain why you argued that chimps and humans are different life forms because people would not mistake one for the other?

If that is not a valid criteria for determining if two species are different life forms, then please tell us what criteria you are using. From where I sit, there are more differences between a chihuahua and a great dane than there is between humans and chimps. In fact, we see creationists claim that all birds are the same life forms. They see no problem lumping a hummingbird and an ostrich together, but they fail to see that chimps and humans are more alike than hummingbirds and ostriches.

I don't think they fail to see it. I just think they desperately don't want it to be true. Because, after all, according to the Bible, humans are top tier. Special. To bring us down to the same base as chimps would hurt the ego. So. Hard.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I don't think they fail to see it. I just think they desperately don't want it to be true. Because, after all, according to the Bible, humans are top tier. Special. To bring us down to the same base as chimps would hurt the ego. So. Hard.

Apparently being the most intelligent species we know of isn't good enough for some people

 

[Loudmouth]

I don't think they fail to see it. I just think they desperately don't want it to be true. Because, after all, according to the Bible, humans are top tier. Special. To bring us down to the same base as chimps would hurt the ego. So. Hard.

Then they are speaking out both sides of their mouth. One moment they are proclaiming how wonderful the creation is, and the next they are running away from the thought of being part of that very same creation. Strange indeed.

 

[justlookinla]

HAHAHAHA! You really DO NOT HAVE A CLUE, do you!?

Common design??

Let's see. Your God 'designed' it so that chimpanzees were infected by retroviruses, IN HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF LOCATIONS within their genome.

Then, he had humans infected with the same ancient retroviruses and had them infect the humans IN EXACTLY THE SAME LOCATIONS in THEIR genomes!!

Out of the BILLIONS of locations that could have been chosen for insertion in either of the genomes, your God 'designed' so those bugs would choose the same spots in both.

I've got a bridge for you if you're interested.

Well, let's see, since you don't want to take personal responsibility for misquoting me we'll look at the human machine and see if it's simply a product of a random, mindless, meaningless, purposeless and goalless mechanism. Your rush to introduce ERVs, which has nothing to do with my original request...you know, the one you misquoted....has caused you to stumble headlong and fall into the pile of stinky guesses and suppositions of atheistic Darwinist creationism.

Now, for the facts.....

"There are 2.5 trillion (give or take) of red blood cells in your body at any moment. To maintain this number, about two and a half million new ones need to be produced every second by your bone marrow.That's like a new population of the city of Toronto every second."​

"Considering all the tissues and cells in your body, 25 million new cells are being produced each second. That's a little less than the population of Canada - every second"​

"Nerve Impulses travel at over 400 km/hr (249 mi/hr)".​

"Our heart beats around 100,00 times every day or about 30 million times in a year.​

"Our blood is on a 60,000-mile journey per day."​

"Our eyes can distinguish up to ten million colour surfaces and take in more information than the largest telescope known to man."​

"Our lungs inhale over two million litres of air every day, without even thinking. Their surface area is large enough to cover one side of a tennis court."​

"We give birth to over 200 billion red cells every day."​

" When we touch something, we send a message to our brain at 124 mph"​

"Our nose is our personal air-conditioning system: it warms cold air, cools hot air and filters impurities."​

"In one square inch of our hand we have nine feet of blood vessels, 600 pain sensors, 9000 nerve endings, 36 heat sensors and 75 pressure sensors."​

"The aorta, the largest artery in the body, is almost the diameter of a garden hose. Capillaries, on the other hand, are so small that it takes ten of them to equal the thickness of a human hair.​

"The heart pumps about 1 million barrels of blood during an average lifetime - that's enough to fill 2 oil super tankers"​

"The number of neurons present in the brain is approximately 100 billion which is about 15 times of the total human population on earth. This high number of neurons increases the processing ability of the brain."​

"During pregnancy, the fetal brain develops at an amazing rate. There are about 251,000 neurons added every single minute. In accordance with that, there could be nearly 1,000 – 10,000 synapses just for a single neuron. Cells will continue to develop for several years after birth. The region responsible for memory and learning, the hippocampus, will continue to add new cells throughout lifetime."​

This is just a small portion of the incomprehensible complexity of the human machine, we could go on and on with the facts. Now, if you have any evidence whatsoever that only a random, mindless, meaningless, and goalless naturalistic mechanism acting on a single life from from long long ago created that, please present it. And try not to change my request and actually quote me this time. Ok?

 

[justlookinla]

No person would mistake a person of African descent from a person of European descent, either. Does that justify treating them differently from each other? Of course not. However, some use that criteria to mete out injustice.

Since your "no-person-would-mistake..." criteria for determining relatedness between species is faulty, what else are you using to determine that chimps and humans are not descended from a common ancestor?

Nobody is suggesting that persons of African descent is different from a person of European dissent. What is being suggested is that if one were to examine a chimp and a human, no person would mistake a chimp for a human.

 

[Loudmouth]

This is just a small portion of the incomprehensible complexity of the human machine, we could go on and on with the facts. Now, if you have any evidence whatsoever that only a random, mindless, meaningless, and goalless naturalistic mechanism acting on a single life from from long long ago created that, please present it. And try not to change my request and actually quote me this time. Ok?

No one is making that claim, so why would we need to provide evidence for it?

 

[justlookinla]

Let's see how well your theory works.

Both chimps and gorillas have a type of ERV called CERV's (aka PtERV's). This family of retroviral DNA is not found in humans.

Using "common design", should I find CERV insertions at the same locations in the gorilla and chimp genomes? Explain your answer.

When you are finished, I will give the predictions made by the theory of evolution, and why the theory makes those predictions.

You should find whatever the builder and designer designed into his design.

 

[Loudmouth]

Nobody is suggesting that persons of African descent is different from a person of European dissent. What is being suggested is that if one were to examine a chimp and a human, no person would mistake a chimp for a human.

No person would mistake a chihuahua for a great dane, and yet they share a common ancestor.

 

[Loudmouth]

You should find whatever the builder and designer designed into his design.

You are the one making claims that evidence is consistent with common design. Are you saying that you can't back up your claims?

 

[bhsmte]

Then they are speaking out both sides of their mouth. One moment they are proclaiming how wonderful the creation is, and the next they are running away from the thought of being part of that very same creation. Strange indeed.

Fundamentalists, often contradict themselves and that is seen often on these threads.

The more they talk, the more they contradict themselves, because they are desperate to protect and justify their belief. Police deal with this all the time when questioning a suspect. They want them to talk as much as possible and if they are hiding something, or making up a story, they will eventually contradict themselves, because they lose track of what they are making up.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Well, let's see, since you don't want to take personal responsibility for misquoting me we'll look at the human machine and see if it's simply a product of a random, mindless, meaningless, purposeless and goalless mechanism. Your rush to introduce ERVs, which has nothing to do with my original request...you know, the one you misquoted....has caused you to stumble headlong and fall into the pile of stinky guesses and suppositions of atheistic Darwinist creationism.

Now, for the facts.....

"There are 2.5 trillion (give or take) of red blood cells in your body at any moment. To maintain this number, about two and a half million new ones need to be produced every second by your bone marrow.That's like a new population of the city of Toronto every second."​

"Our eyes can distinguish up to ten million colour surfaces and take in more information than the largest telescope known to man."​

" When we touch something, we send a message to our brain at 124 mph"​

"In one square inch of our hand we have nine feet of blood vessels, 600 pain sensors, 9000 nerve endings, 36 heat sensors and 75 pressure sensors."​

"The number of neurons present in the brain is approximately 100 billion which is about 15 times of the total human population on earth. This high number of neurons increases the processing ability of the brain."​

"During pregnancy, the fetal brain develops at an amazing rate. There are about 251,000 neurons added every single minute. In accordance with that, there could be nearly 1,000 – 10,000 synapses just for a single neuron. Cells will continue to develop for several years after birth. The region responsible for memory and learning, the hippocampus, will continue to add new cells throughout lifetime."​

This is just a small portion of the incomprehensible complexity of the human machine, we could go on and on with the facts. Now, if you have any evidence whatsoever that only a random, mindless, meaningless, and goalless naturalistic mechanism acting on a single life from from long long ago created that, please present it. And try not to change my request and actually quote me this time. Ok?

I wouldn't consider how many times our hearts beat to be something that makes us complex, it is a rather simple muscle movement and there is nothing spectacular or unique about human hearts compared to that of other animals that makes them more complex. In fact, plenty of creatures have more effective and "complex" heart and lung systems.

You know what? I'll just backspace on the items in your list that don't actually present complexity. As well as ones that repeat the same theme.

 

[justlookinla]

Then explain why you argued that chimps and humans are different life forms because people would not mistake one for the other?

If that is not a valid criteria for determining if two species are different life forms, then please tell us what criteria you are using. From where I sit, there are more differences between a chihuahua and a great dane than there is between humans and chimps. In fact, we see creationists claim that all birds are the same life forms. They see no problem lumping a hummingbird and an ostrich together, but they fail to see that chimps and humans are more alike than hummingbirds and ostriches.

Chimps aren't humans and humans aren't chimps and not a single person confuses the two. This is the criteria....

Now, which is the human and which is the chimp? You having trouble deciding?

Go play your games somewhere else.

 

[DerelictJunction]

Nobody is suggesting that persons of African descent is different from a person of European dissent. What is being suggested is that if one were to examine a chimp and a human, no person would mistake a chimp for a human.

So what. The fact that a person can tell the difference between the two has no bearing on whether they shared a common ancestor. That line of argument is dead. You killed it when you agreed that the chihuahua and great dane are the same species despite the enormous differences between the two.

So now what argument can you put forth to support your claim that chimpanzees and humans are not descended from the same ancestor?

 

[justlookinla]

I wouldn't consider how many times our hearts beat to be something that makes us complex, it is a rather simple muscle movement and there is nothing spectacular or unique about human hearts compared to that of other animals that makes them more complex.

Can you give an example of a man made pump machine which is comparable to the human heart?

In fact, plenty of creatures have more effective and "complex" heart and lung systems.

Great.

You know what? I'll just backspace on the items in your list that don't actually present complexity. As well as ones that repeat the same theme.

They all present examples that one must decide as to how they were created.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Chimps aren't humans and humans aren't chimps and not a single person confuses the two. This is the criteria....

Now, which is the human and which is the chimp? You having trouble deciding?

Go play your games somewhere else.

Invalid, completely unrelated species can look alike to the point of misidentification, while even members of the same species can appear drastically different. In fact, the upper and lower pitchers of some species of tropical pitcher plants are often so drastically different that people have misidentified single plant specimens as two separate species. On multiple occasions. Personally, I don't get how people can manage to do that when the base of the plant and the vines are all attached, but you get my point.

 

[Loudmouth]

Chimps aren't humans and humans aren't chimps and not a single person confuses the two.

Chihuahuas aren't great danes, and great danes aren't chihuahuas. That doesnt' stop them from sharing a common ancestor.

 

[justlookinla]

So what. The fact that a person can tell the difference between the two has no bearing on whether they shared a common ancestor. That line of argument is dead. You killed it when you agreed that the chihuahua and great dane are the same species despite the enormous differences between the two.

So now what argument can you put forth to support your claim that chimpanzees and humans are not descended from the same ancestor?

I haven't killed anything. Dogs are dogs are dogs, humans are humans are humans. Nothing suggests that they have a common ancestor with each other or with a pine tree or with a cockroach other than the faith-based guesses and suppositions of atheistic Darwinist creationism.

 

[DerelictJunction]

Chimps aren't humans and humans aren't chimps and not a single person confuses the two. This is the criteria....

Now, which is the human and which is the chimp? You having trouble deciding?

Go play your games somewhere else.

Still spouting nonsense that you agreed is nonsensical?

No one said they are the same. We are saying that the differences and the ease of recognition of said differences are invalid criteria for determining if they shared a common ancestor.

Since that criteria has been shown invalid. What is your next "evidence" against common ancestry for chimps and humans?

 

[justlookinla]

Chihuahuas aren't great danes, and great danes aren't chihuahuas. That doesnt' stop them from sharing a common ancestor.

They're dogs. They're not cats.