Understanding evil

[RileyG]

Why does evil occur from your perspective?

Discuss

 

[zippy2006]

No one knows. It is the mystery of iniquity - the mysterium iniquitatis.

It is also not something that can be understood and then rectified in a straightforwardly rational manner, for evil is deeply irrational. This is why the ultimate response to evil--the cross--is also mysterious and opaque.

 

[RileyG]

No one knows. It is the mystery of iniquity - the mysterium iniquitatis.

It is also not something that can be understood and then rectified in a straightforwardly rational manner, for evil is deeply irrational. This is why the ultimate response to evil--the cross--is also mysterious and opaque.

Fascinating.

I was always told God could make good come out of evil. The good- which is God- always wins!

 

[childeye 2]

Scripture states that God is Light and that the darkness did not comprehend the Light. So, to me it stands to reason that evil would occur in the absence of the knowledge of God, for the purpose of showing the distinction between Who God is, and what He is not.

 

[SkyWriting]

Why does evil occur from your perspective?

Discuss

God could have made us angel/slaves where we could only worship him forever.

Is that the kind of company you would want to keep.....even for an hour?
So the other option is to allow man to reject God or to love Him voluntarily.
Rejecting God is what evil is.

 

[wendykvw]

Why does evil occur from your perspective?

Discuss

As darkness is the absence of light, evil is the absence of love. Why does it occur. People can let love rule in their heart or their own selfish ambition. We are living in an age where selfish ambition dominates.

2Timothy 3:3-5

 

[fhansen]

Why does evil occur from your perspective?

Discuss

I believe that when free will is combined with creation, which is inherently imperfect relative to God, then the potential for evil is already active. Perhaps all creation is evil in a sense in that it's not God, and therefore falls short of His perfection. But as long as creation is in union with and subjugated to Him, then all is well. Adam dismissed and rejected this union or relationship in Eden while man can only find his own justice and perfection via this union, which is the basis of the New Covenant: “Apart from Me you can do nothing”, John 15:5. So for men and angels this union is a choice. Without it, apart from God, we're lost, dead, disordered, in a state of injustice-and chaos/sin reign to one degree or another in our world.

Anyway, only a less than perfect being could make the less than perfect choice that Adam made. The Catholic Church, for its part, teaches that God made His world “in statu viae”, in a state of journeying to perfection, meaning, for man, that we’re to struggle and to choose between good and evil, finally fully choosing the ultimate Good, which is God, meaning to love Him with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength, impossible without the grace that He gives as He seeks to pull us from the darkness that fallen man finds himself in. That’s how our purpose and perfection are attained, and evil is vanquished in Gods creation.

 

[RileyG]

I believe that when free will is combined with creation, which is inherently imperfect relative to God, then the potential for evil is already active. Perhaps all creation is evil in a sense in that it's not God, and therefore falls short of His perfection. But as long as creation is in union with and subjugated to Him, then all is well. Adam dismissed and rejected it in Eden while man can only find his own justice and perfection via this union, which is the basis of the New Covenant. So for men and angels this union is a choice. Without it, apart from God, we're lost, dead, disordered, in a state of injustice-and chaos/sin reign to one degree or another in our world.

Anyway, only a less than perfect being could make the less than perfect choice that Adam made. The Catholic Church, for its part, teaches that God made His world “in statu viae”, in a state of journeying to perfection, meaning, for man, that we’re to struggle and to choose between good and evil, finally fully choosing the ultimate Good, which is God, meaning to love Him with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength, impossible without the grace that He gives as He seeks to pull us from the darkness fallen man finds himself in.

Well said!

 

[disciple Clint]

Why does evil occur from your perspective?

Discuss

99.99% due to pride We decide that what we want is more important than what God wants.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Why does evil occur from your perspective?

Discuss

Evil exists through the flesh.
"The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.”

"There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death."

 

[Skye1300]

Why does evil occur from your perspective?

Discuss

Because Lucifer wanted to be worshipped along with God and got kicked out of heaven and came to earth to tempt Adam and Eve, giving us all the sin nature. The devil has been influencing mankind since then. That's why evil exists and why people do evil things.

 

[Skye1300]

God could have made us angel/slaves where we could only worship him forever.

Is that the kind of company you would want to keep.....even for an hour?
So the other option is to allow man to reject God or to love Him voluntarily.
Rejecting God is what evil is.

The first thing you have said that I can actually agree with.

 

[Jipsah]

Why does evil occur from your perspective?

Discuss

Easy. I want what I want, when I want it, and if you interfere with me getting it, or won't hand it over, or cross me in any way, then I'm going to make it the worse for you. That's the long and short of it. Name me one evil that doesn't begin with "I want".

 

[Jipsah]

No one knows.

Really? "I want your money. If you don't hand it over I'll shoot you.". Everything else is matters of degree or variations on the same theme.

 

[TedT]

Why does evil occur from your perspective?

Discuss

Evil had one source, the minds and hearts of some of HIS creation.

Evil had one cause: some people decided by their free will, uncoerced and non-constrained, that true full happiness would be better fulfilled by a decision to rebuke YHWH for being a liar and a false god rather than believing HIM to be telling the truth about HIS divinity, heaven and hell and the purpose of our creation.

Once someone rebels against GOD or against one of HIS commands they become enslaved to the addictive nature of evil so that all the evil they do now comes from their evil nature created by their free will decision to rebel, from which they cannot control nor cure themselves.

The theology of the pre-conception existence fall is lengthy so I will post it separate...

 

[TedT]

So, to me it stands to reason that evil would occur in the absence of the knowledge of God, for the purpose of showing the distinction between Who God is, and what He is not.

Since I cannot grasp Satan or anyone rebelling against GOD or trying to usurp HIM AFTER seeing HIM in HIS glory, I consider that when HE taught, proclaimed, HIS deity and the gospel of salvation to every creature under heaven, ie in creaton, Col 1:23, HE must not have provided any proof of HIS claims...

If HE had proven HIS claims who would rebuke HIM? But by making the claim to be our creator GOD for the purpose of a heavenly marriage with us, without proof, HE allowed everyone to choose to accept HIM at face value or to reject HIM as a liar and a false god driven by an evil megalomania...our decision based upon our deepest wishes and desires, pre-sinfulness.

To make a real ie true free will choice about HIM we had to know the content of HIS claims very well and the nature of the consequences of each option from HIS pov or we would just be guessing about what we thought might be best for us, not making a real choice between options.

So, to my mind, KNOWLEDGE of GOD was essential but PROOF of HIS Deity and eternal power had to be hidden until after we chose which reality held the future we thought to be best for us, rebuking HIM as an evil liar (the unforgivable sin) or putting our faith, our unproven hope, in HIM as our GOD and Saviour.

 

[TedT]

God could have made us angel/slaves where we could only worship him forever.

Is that the kind of company you would want to keep.....even for an hour?

So the other option is to allow man to reject God or to love Him voluntarily.
Rejecting God is what evil is.

ImCo:
I AGREE - robotic automatons were NOT the Bride HE wanted unless HE was a Borg, happy to marry a Stepford wife!

Since the Bible story of HIS work with us and for us ends with the heavenly marriage I see it as the culmination of the purpose HE had for our creation - the heavenly marriage is what all this creation and life is about. And since no marriage of love affair can exist by force this presupposes our being created with a free will, not a will enslaved to evil.

IF any doctrine doesn't fit this narrative such as HIS supposedly creating us as sinful in Adam, I tend to refuse it and to look for a better reason for our sin that does not make HIM to be a fool.

PS: the angels are not robotic slaves but persons, ie people with a free will. Their worship and holiness is true and honest, not compelled by GOD's will.

 

[zippy2006]

Really? "I want your money. If you don't hand it over I'll shoot you.". Everything else is matters of degree or variations on the same theme.

Are you saying that evil occurs because people want money?

 

[TedT]

Perhaps all creation is evil in a sense in that it's not God, and therefore falls short of His perfection.

No sir - this is the essence of Gnosticism. The people GOD made were perfect in their innocence and in their ability to become HIS perfect heavenly Bride....even though they were not Divine.

So for men and angels this union is a choice.

ImCo:
A free will choice...
A free will choice demands ability and knowledge of the consequences of each option so I contend: everyone created in HIS image was created with a free will and the perfect and equal ability and opportunity to choose to put their faith, their unproven hope, in HIS claims as true, accepting HIM as our GOD and Saviour
OR
able to choose to put their faith, their unproven hope, in HIS claims as being lies which prove he was a false god, driven by sinful impulses of a psychotic megalomania, the unforgivable sin.

Anyway, only a less than perfect being could make the less than perfect choice that Adam made.

Please consider that they were perfect in their innocence and in their ability to fulfill HIS purpose for us, the heavenly marriage. Their perfection also existed in their potential to be HIS Heavenly Bride. Holiness fulfills this potential as full perfection but holiness can only happen by a free will choice to accept HIM and HIS commands.

The holy elect angels chose by their free will to accept HIS claims without proof to be GOD and Saviour without wavering and were elected to be HIS Bride. The Satanic chose by their free will to rebuke HIM as a liar and a false god, eternally destroying their ability to ever fulfill HIS purpose in their creation, therefore condemned to banishment to the outer darkness on the spot.

But some of the elect, secure in HIS promise of election as safe from the judgement of hell, rebelled against HIS command to come out from among their friends who were now condemned to banishment so they themselves would not suffer any damage from their banishment, (hint: Matt 13:29 ‘No,’ he said, ‘if you pull the weeds now, you might uproot the wheat with them.) but these would not rebuke the Satanic fallen, claiming that a loving GOD would never turn on HIS children like that and therefore HE was making a mistake or was not who HE claimed to be, the GOD who is lOVE. This sin forced the postponement of the judgement, Matt 13::30, as they too become sinful and enslaved to the addictive power of evil so they were flung into the earth to be redeemed and sanctified as promised, so the postponement of the judgement would end and the heavenly marriage could commence with HIS now fully perfect Bride.

 

[TedT]

Evil exists through the flesh.
"The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.”

Did not evil exist before the flesh?
Did not the Satanic fall predate the creation of the earth?

ImCo:
The serpent's fall certainly was in the spirit, pre-sinful flesh, predating Adam eating of the tree because he arrived in the garden with evil intent to seduce them from GOD into idolatry.

Flesh is a metaphor for the sinful nature of man, not the cause of the sinfulness of the spirit of man which can only be by the free will decision of that spirit to rebel against GOD or HIS command.