UNDER THE LAW!

[HARK!]

I have a scripture:


5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind rom14:5
And another:
I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean.verse14
And another:
Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble verse20

Paul on the Law: Romans Chapter 14

Continued from: Romans Chapter 13

Romans 14 (CLV)
1 Now the infirm in the faith be taking to yourselves, but not for discrimination of reasonings."

YHWH's Law is relatively well defined; and it doesn't leave much room for biased reasonings.

(CLV) Ro 3:20
because, by works of law, no flesh at all shall be justified in His sight, for through law is the recognition of sin.


(CLV) Ro 7:7
What, then, shall we declare? That the law is sin? May it not be coming to that! But sin I knew not except through law. For besides, I had not been aware of coveting except the law said, "You shall not be coveting."

2 One, indeed, is believing to eat all things, yet the infirm one is eating greens." 3 Let not him who is eating be scorning him who is not eating. Yet let not him who is not eating be judging him who is eating, for God took him to Himself."

Not eating: This is called fasting. There are no laws in the Torah that command a fast. Fast days are man made traditions. Yahshua rebuked putting the traditions of men over Torah. Paul is saying don't bicker with the newbies over conflicts in tradition.

4 Who are you who are judging Another's domestic? To his own Master he is standing or falling. Now he will be made to stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand." 5 One indeed, is deciding for one day rather than another day, yet one is deciding for every day. Let each one be fully assured in his own mind."

Some try to twist this passage to say that we are not required to honor Sabbath or YHWH's Moedim (Feast Days) Paul is not giving permission to transgress the law.

Romans 2:12
12 for whoever sinned without the law, without law also shall perish, and whoever sinned in law, through law will be judged."

The Sabbath is forever.

(CLV) Ex 31:16
Hence the sons of Israel will keep the sabbath so as to make the sabbath an eonian covenant throughout their generations.

(CLV) Ex 31:17
Between Me and the sons of Israel it shall be a sign for the eon, for in six days Yahweh dealt with the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He ceased and was refreshed.

All of the Moedim (Feasts) are forever.
See Leviticus 23.

All of these days are specifically detailed in the Torah. You can't keep them "every day."

6 He who is disposed to the day, is disposed to it to the Lord; and he who is eating, is eating to the Lord, for he is thanking God. And he who is not eating, to the Lord is not eating, and is thanking God." 7 For not one of us is living to himself, and not one is dying to himself." 8 For both, if we should be living, to the Lord are we living, and if we should be dying, to the Lord are we dying. Then, both if we should be living and if we should be dying, we are the Lord's." 9 For for this Christ died and lives, that He should be Lord of the dead as well as of the living." 10 Now why are you judging your brother? Or why are you also scorning your brother? For all of us shall be presented at the dais of God, 11 for it is written: Living am I, the Lord is saying, For to Me shall bow every knee, And every tongue shall be acclaiming God!" 12 Consequently, then, each of us shall be giving account concerning himself to God." 13 By no means, then, should we still be judging one another, but rather decide this, not to place a stumbling block for a brother, or a snare." 14 I have perceived and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is contaminating of itself, except that the one reckoning anything to be contaminating, to that one it is contaminating." 15 For if, because of food, your brother is sorrowing, you are no longer walking according to love. Do not, by your food, destroy that one for whose sake Christ died."

Food is also defined in the Torah. Pork is not food by YHWH's definition.

16 Let not, then, your good be calumniated, 17 for the kingdom of God is not food and drink, but righteousness and peace and joy in holy spirit." 18 For he who in this is slaving for Christ, is well pleasing to God and attested by men." 19 Consequently, then, we are pursuing that which makes for peace and that which is for edification of one another." 20 Not on account of food demolish the work of God. All, indeed, is clean, but it is evil to the man who with stumbling is eating."

All food is clean; Again YHWH did not define pork as food.

21 It is ideal not to be eating meat, nor yet to be drinking wine, nor yet to do aught by which your brother is stumbling, or is being snared or weakened." 22 The faith which you have, have for yourself in God's sight. Happy is he who is not judging himself in that which he is attesting." 23 Now he who is doubting if he should be eating is condemned, seeing that it is not out of faith. Now everything which is not out of faith is sin."

What is sin?

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Romans 2:31'
31 Are we, then, nullifying law through faith? May it not be coming to that! Nay, we are sustaining law."




Legal Terms:

The Law of Faith (Ch 3)
A Different Law (Ch 7)
The Law of My Mind (Ch 7)
The Law of Sin (Sin's Law) (Ch 7)
God's Law (Ch 7)
The Spirit's Law of Life (Ch 8)
The Law of Sin and Death (Ch 8)
The Law of Righteousness (Ch 9)


Romans Chapter 15

 

[not under law]

Paul on the Law: Romans Chapter 14

Continued from: Romans Chapter 13

Romans 14 (CLV)
1 Now the infirm in the faith be taking to yourselves, but not for discrimination of reasonings."

YHWH's Law is relatively well defined; and it doesn't leave much room for biased reasonings.

(CLV) Ro 3:20
because, by works of law, no flesh at all shall be justified in His sight, for through law is the recognition of sin.


(CLV) Ro 7:7
What, then, shall we declare? That the law is sin? May it not be coming to that! But sin I knew not except through law. For besides, I had not been aware of coveting except the law said, "You shall not be coveting."

2 One, indeed, is believing to eat all things, yet the infirm one is eating greens." 3 Let not him who is eating be scorning him who is not eating. Yet let not him who is not eating be judging him who is eating, for God took him to Himself."

Not eating: This is called fasting. There are no laws in the Torah that command a fast. Fast days are man made traditions. Yahshua rebuked putting the traditions of men over Torah. Paul is saying don't bicker with the newbies over conflicts in tradition.

4 Who are you who are judging Another's domestic? To his own Master he is standing or falling. Now he will be made to stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand." 5 One indeed, is deciding for one day rather than another day, yet one is deciding for every day. Let each one be fully assured in his own mind."

Some try to twist this passage to say that we are not required to honor Sabbath or YHWH's Moedim (Feast Days) Paul is not giving permission to transgress the law.

Romans 2:12
12 for whoever sinned without the law, without law also shall perish, and whoever sinned in law, through law will be judged."

The Sabbath is forever.

(CLV) Ex 31:16
Hence the sons of Israel will keep the sabbath so as to make the sabbath an eonian covenant throughout their generations.

(CLV) Ex 31:17
Between Me and the sons of Israel it shall be a sign for the eon, for in six days Yahweh dealt with the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He ceased and was refreshed.

All of the Moedim (Feasts) are forever.
See Leviticus 23.

All of these days are specifically detailed in the Torah. You can't keep them "every day."

6 He who is disposed to the day, is disposed to it to the Lord; and he who is eating, is eating to the Lord, for he is thanking God. And he who is not eating, to the Lord is not eating, and is thanking God." 7 For not one of us is living to himself, and not one is dying to himself." 8 For both, if we should be living, to the Lord are we living, and if we should be dying, to the Lord are we dying. Then, both if we should be living and if we should be dying, we are the Lord's." 9 For for this Christ died and lives, that He should be Lord of the dead as well as of the living." 10 Now why are you judging your brother? Or why are you also scorning your brother? For all of us shall be presented at the dais of God, 11 for it is written: Living am I, the Lord is saying, For to Me shall bow every knee, And every tongue shall be acclaiming God!" 12 Consequently, then, each of us shall be giving account concerning himself to God." 13 By no means, then, should we still be judging one another, but rather decide this, not to place a stumbling block for a brother, or a snare." 14 I have perceived and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is contaminating of itself, except that the one reckoning anything to be contaminating, to that one it is contaminating." 15 For if, because of food, your brother is sorrowing, you are no longer walking according to love. Do not, by your food, destroy that one for whose sake Christ died."

Food is also defined in the Torah. Pork is not food by YHWH's definition.

16 Let not, then, your good be calumniated, 17 for the kingdom of God is not food and drink, but righteousness and peace and joy in holy spirit." 18 For he who in this is slaving for Christ, is well pleasing to God and attested by men." 19 Consequently, then, we are pursuing that which makes for peace and that which is for edification of one another." 20 Not on account of food demolish the work of God. All, indeed, is clean, but it is evil to the man who with stumbling is eating."

All food is clean; Again YHWH did not define pork as food.

21 It is ideal not to be eating meat, nor yet to be drinking wine, nor yet to do aught by which your brother is stumbling, or is being snared or weakened." 22 The faith which you have, have for yourself in God's sight. Happy is he who is not judging himself in that which he is attesting." 23 Now he who is doubting if he should be eating is condemned, seeing that it is not out of faith. Now everything which is not out of faith is sin."

What is sin?

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Romans 2:31'
31 Are we, then, nullifying law through faith? May it not be coming to that! Nay, we are sustaining law."




Legal Terms:

The Law of Faith (Ch 3)
A Different Law (Ch 7)
The Law of My Mind (Ch 7)
The Law of Sin (Sin's Law) (Ch 7)
God's Law (Ch 7)
The Spirit's Law of Life (Ch 8)
The Law of Sin and Death (Ch 8)
The Law of Righteousness (Ch 9)


Romans Chapter 15

You and I have different views on this, and I am sure neither of us will change our minds, and I am sure we are both as convinced as each other our view is correct

 

[HARK!]

Tell you what, give me one verse of scripture, from anywhere once the new covenant came into operation that specifically states gentiles must observe a specific Saturday sabbath, just one will do. I have a scripture:

Again gentiles are the nations. They are not Hebrews. They haven't crossed over. Yahshua came only for the lost sheep of Israel. YHWH's covenant is with Israel.

 

[not under law]

Again gentiles are the nations. They are not Hebrews. They haven't crossed over. Yahshua came only for the lost sheep of Israel. YHWH's covenant is with Israel.

Paul wrote to gentiles, he told them one person considers one day more sacred that another, another person treats every day alike, each one should be fully convinced in their own mind. He also in the same chapter twice said all food is clean. But the bible is a big book, and it is not hard through study to do an exegesis that overturns what Paul plainly stated.

 

[not under law]

God told Moses the Israelites were a stiff necked heathen people who would soon desert him when they reached the promised land. Such people, would naturally need to be told to set aside a specific day to contemplate on God and his goodness to them, to meditate on his kindness to them. Under the new covenant, our hearts have been softened. The Holy Spirit dwells in us and therefore so does Father and son. You cannot help but meditate on, and be thankful to God seven days a week for His goodness and kindness to you, including Saturdays. For he dwells in you via the Spirit with His Son. The spiritual intent of the fourth commandment is or should be upheld seven days a week

 

[HARK!]

You and I have different views on this, and I am sure neither of us will change our minds

I try to keep an open mind. That is why I believe in a way that most Christians don't seem to be able to see. I moved around a lot in my childhood. I had a different home nearly every year. My parents would drop me off every Sunday at the nearest Protestant church, for Sunday school. The denomination didn't matter to them. I kept getting conflicting stories. I would question my teachers about these contradictions. More than once, I was told, regarding what my last church had told me, "well if you don't believe what we believe; you're going straight to hell." Later on, in my walk, I realized that my parents had lied to me. My mother was extremely honest. I only caught her in three lies in her whole life. The first one was the tooth fairy, then the Ishtar fertility symbol, and then that giant red gnome. Because of all the lies that I had been told in various churches about YHWH's truth; I suspected that g-d was just another lie that parents told children....you know....to teach them moral values. I was about to give up on YHWH. Fortunately he endowed me with enough logic to take my logic a step further. I realized that the reason why I had doubts, was because of the lies of men. I decided that I would give him one more chance, and to read the book as it was written.


I started in Genesis 1:1. I was sitting by a river one morning reading, somewhere in the NT, and the book didn't matter anymore. I didn't need it to know YHWH was real. He showed me so himself.

I don't trust in doctrines, in men, nor in Bible translations. I trust in YHWH.

I believe that he puts everyone in my life for a reason. Some for me to reveal his truth to them some for them to show his truth to me, some to test me.

When I make up my mind for myself, I close it off to what he's trying to show me. I let my ego become an idol before him. That is elevating myself above him. That is what Ha'Satan does. His truth has infinite depth. I've only begun to understand.

Now if you can show me where YHWH changed his nature, and declared Pork food; I'm all ears.

 

[not under law]

I try to keep an open mind. That is why I believe in a way that most Christians don't seem to be able to see. I moved around a lot in my childhood. I had a different home nearly every year. My parents would drop me off every Sunday at the nearest Protestant church, for Sunday school. The denomination didn't matter to them. I kept getting conflicting stories. I would question my teachers about these contradictions. More than once, I was told, regarding what my last church had told me, "well if you don't believe what we believe; you're going straight to hell." Later on, in my walk, I realized that my parents had lied to me. My mother was extremely honest. I only caught her in three lies in her whole life. The first one was the tooth fairy, then the Ishtar fertility symbol, and then that giant red gnome. Because of all the lies that I had been told in various churches about YHWH's truth; I suspected that g-d was just another lie that parents told children....you know....to teach them moral values. I was about to give up on YHWH. Fortunately he endowed me with enough logic to take my logic a step further. I realized that the reason why I had doubts, was because of the lies of men. I decided that I would give him one more chance, and to read the book as it was written.


I started in Genesis 1:1. I was sitting by a river one morning reading, somewhere in the NT, and the book didn't matter anymore. I didn't need it to know YHWH was real. He showed me so himself.

I don't trust in doctrines, in men, nor in Bible translations. I trust in YHWH.

I believe that he puts everyone in my life for a reason. Some for me to reveal his truth to them some for them to show his truth to me, some to test me.

When I make up my mind for myself, I close it off to what he's trying to show me. I let my ego become an idol before him. That is elevating myself above him. That is what Ha'Satan does. His truth has infinite depth. I've only begun to understand.

Now if you can show me where YHWH changed his nature, and declared Pork food; I'm all ears.

Thank you for sharing. You are not alone in sometimes closing your mind off to what God wants to show you, I imagine many of us, especially on sites such as these do.
As for pork being food. The best I can do is to ask you, if you think the NT church gave gentiles a licence to sin. They must have done you know if Gentiles must avoid the Levitical unclean foods, and not simply because they were just coming to God, for their whole lives(Acts21:25) I think you would agree, God's laws are not arbitrary, you cannot pick and choose which ones you ignore and which ones you follow. Would the Jerusalem church have led Gentiles down such a path? So I don't know if you can consider that. And Paul did state he was convinced all food is clean.
I do however believe, for you all food is not clean, but for me it is. There is latitude here, according to rom 14, not everyone has to see it the same way

 

[not under law]

I try to keep an open mind. That is why I believe in a way that most Christians don't seem to be able to see. I moved around a lot in my childhood. I had a different home nearly every year. My parents would drop me off every Sunday at the nearest Protestant church, for Sunday school. The denomination didn't matter to them. I kept getting conflicting stories. I would question my teachers about these contradictions. More than once, I was told, regarding what my last church had told me, "well if you don't believe what we believe; you're going straight to hell." Later on, in my walk, I realized that my parents had lied to me. My mother was extremely honest. I only caught her in three lies in her whole life. The first one was the tooth fairy, then the Ishtar fertility symbol, and then that giant red gnome. Because of all the lies that I had been told in various churches about YHWH's truth; I suspected that g-d was just another lie that parents told children....you know....to teach them moral values. I was about to give up on YHWH. Fortunately he endowed me with enough logic to take my logic a step further. I realized that the reason why I had doubts, was because of the lies of men. I decided that I would give him one more chance, and to read the book as it was written.


I started in Genesis 1:1. I was sitting by a river one morning reading, somewhere in the NT, and the book didn't matter anymore. I didn't need it to know YHWH was real. He showed me so himself.

I don't trust in doctrines, in men, nor in Bible translations. I trust in YHWH.

I believe that he puts everyone in my life for a reason. Some for me to reveal his truth to them some for them to show his truth to me, some to test me.

When I make up my mind for myself, I close it off to what he's trying to show me. I let my ego become an idol before him. That is elevating myself above him. That is what Ha'Satan does. His truth has infinite depth. I've only begun to understand.

Now if you can show me where YHWH changed his nature, and declared Pork food; I'm all ears.

Just to add, Jesus did tell the disciples:
Are you so dull?’ he asked. ‘Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? 19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body. He went on: ‘What comes out of a person is what defiles them. 21 For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come – sexual immorality, theft, murder, 22 adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23 All these evils come from inside and defile a person.’ Mark7:18-23

 

[not under law]

.

 

[HARK!]

As for pork being food.

YHWH defines food.

The best I can do is to ask you, if you think the NT church gave gentiles a licence to sin.

No one has a license to sin. We've been over this gentiles are the nations. they're pagans. They have not crossed over. They must cross over to be in the covenant that YHWH made with Israel. Once they cross over; they are Hebrews. That is what Hebrew means, crossed over.

They must have done you know if your view is correct

No one has the authority to give a license to sin. Even YHWH can't sin. The law is YHWH's nature. He calls us to conform to him.

not simply because they were just coming to God, for their whole lives(Acts21:25)

Abraham came to faith long before he was circumcised. YHWH is patient.

You haven't made your point about Acts 21:25 clear. How do you come up with a lifelong license?

I think you would agree, God's laws are not arbitrary, you cannot pick and choose which ones you ignore and which ones you follow.

That's right.

(CLV) Ex 12:49
One law shall there be for both the native and for the sojourner sojourning in your midst.

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

(CLV) Num 15:15
As for the assembly, there shall be one statute for you and for the sojourner sojourning with you. It shall be an eonian statute throughout your generations. Like you so shall the sojourner be before Yahweh.

(CLV) Num 15:16
One law and one custom, it shall come to be for you and for the sojourner sojourning with you.

Would the Jerusalem church have led Gentiles down such a path?

What path is that? Do you mean the same one that YHWH afforded to Abraham, where faith preceded obedience?

So I don't know if you can consider that.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you; the above response confirms that I have.

Paul did state he was convinced all food is clean.

Food is the operative word here. YHWH defines food, not Pagan tradition.

I do however believe, for you all food is not clean

All food is clean for me. Again YHWH defined food. he also defined clean and unclean.

but for me it is.

All food that YHWH defined as clean, is clean food for all.

 

[not under law]

YHWH defines food.



No one has a license to sin. We've been over this gentiles are the nations. they're pagans. They have not crossed over. They must cross over to be in the covenant that YHWH made with Israel. Once they cross over; they are Hebrews. That is what Hebrew means, crossed over.



No one has the authority to give a license to sin. Even YHWH can't sin. The law is YHWH's nature. He calls us to conform to him.



Abraham came to faith long before he was circumcised. YHWH is patient.

You haven't made your point about Acts 21:25 clear. How do you come up with a lifelong license?



That's right.

(CLV) Ex 12:49
One law shall there be for both the native and for the sojourner sojourning in your midst.

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

(CLV) Num 15:15
As for the assembly, there shall be one statute for you and for the sojourner sojourning with you. It shall be an eonian statute throughout your generations. Like you so shall the sojourner be before Yahweh.

(CLV) Num 15:16
One law and one custom, it shall come to be for you and for the sojourner sojourning with you.



What path is that? Do you mean the same one that YHWH afforded to Abraham, where faith preceded obedience?



Unless I'm misunderstanding you; the above response confirms that I have.



Food is the operative word here. YHWH defines food, not Pagan tradition.



All food is clean for me. Again YHWH defined food. he also defined clean and unclean.



All food that YHWH defined as clean, is clean food for all.

However you define Gentiles and Israel, believers, who were Gentiles were not asked to follow the Levitical unclean food laws. In Acts ch15, you could quote verse 19 as to them just coming to the faith. But years later in Acts21:25 it was reconfirmed no laws were being added to those decided on in Acts ch15. So for the whole of their lives Gentile believers could eat the Levitical unclean foods. If those laws should be followed by all, then those Gentile believers were undoubtedly given a licence to sin. And Paul obviously believed under the new covenant all food is clean. Let us leave it there, and agree to disagree, it is not a subject I am convicted to much discuss for myself

 

[HARK!]

Just to add, Jesus did tell the disciples:
Are you so dull?’ he asked. ‘Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? 19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body. He went on: ‘What comes out of a person is what defiles them. 21 For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come – sexual immorality, theft, murder, 22 adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23 All these evils come from inside and defile a person.’ Mark7:18-23

Did you read verse 5? They were eating bread.

(CLV) Mk 7:5
the Pharisees also, and the scribes are inquiring of Him, "Wherefore are not your disciples walking according to the tradition of the elders, but with unwashed hands are eating bread?"


Did you read verses 7 and 8?

(CLV) Mk 7:7
Yet in vain are they revering Me, Teaching for teachings the directions of men.
(CLV) Mk 7:8
For, leaving the precept of God, you are holding the tradition of men of the baptism of ewers and cups. And many such like things you are doing."

You see Yahshua is telling them to keep YHWH's instructions over tradition.

Keep YHWH's instructions.

(CLV) Mk 7:16
If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear!"

"Ears to hear" Yahshua says this when he's speaking to those who can interpret the spiritual message, in the presence of those who are spiritually deaf. Although this verse is omitted in the critical text.

List of major textual variants in the New Testament - Wikipedia

The CLV decided to include this one.



For some reason the verse 19 you provided seems to be cut.

(CLV) Mk 7:19
for it is not going into his heart, but into the bowels, and is going out into the latrine—cleansing all foods?"

The operative word here is food. YHWH defines food.

You don't really believe that Yahshua is telling you that it's OK to eat anything; do you?

Man's traditions cannot make something clean nor unclean. YHWH's Torah tells us what is clean and unclean.

Man's cultural tradition doesn't override YHWH's Torah. This is the message that Yahshua was attempting to convey to those who have ears to hear.




Then there's this:



This is not a question of textual criticism, nor is there any reason to reject the authenticity of Mark 7:19. It is entirely a question of interpreting the text. Let us look at the oldest versions:

• The Greek original has:
  
  οτι ουκ εισπορευεται αυτου εις την καρδιαν αλλ εις την κοιλιαν και εις τον αφεδρωνα εκπορευεται καθαριζων παντα τα βρωματα
  
  
• The Pshitta has:
  
  ܕ݁ܠܳܐ ܗ݈ܘܳܐ ܠܠܶܒ݁ܶܗ ܥܳܐܶܠ ܐܶܠܳܐ ܠܟ݂ܰܪܣܶܗ ܘܡܶܫܬ݁ܕ݂ܶܐ ܒ݁ܬ݂ܰܕ݂ܟ݁ܺܝܬ݂ܳܐ ܕ݁ܰܡܕ݂ܰܟ݁ܝܳܐ ܟ݁ܽܠܳܗ ܡܶܐܟ݂ܽܘܠܬ݁ܳܐ ܀
  
  
• The Old Syriac (Vetus Syrus) has:
  
  ܡܛܠ ܕܠܐ ܗܘܐ ܓܝܪ ܠܠܒܐ ܥܐܠ ܐܠܐ ܠܟܪܣܐ ܘܡܫܬܕܐ ܠܒܪ ܘܡܬܕܟܐ ܟܘܠܗ ܡܐܟܠܐ
  
  
• And the Vulgata has:
  
  quia non introit in cor eius, sed in uentrem uadit, et in secessum exit, purgans omnes escas
  
  
• And compare the KJV:
  
  Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?
  

The participle καθαριζων “purifying, purging” can be construed either with αφεδρων “excretive system”, or with the subject of the verb “he said”, that is: Jesus. So the Greek text can mean either that the intestines purify the foods, or else the quotation can end with the word εκπορευεται, followed by the statement that “he” (Jesus) thereby was “purifying all foods”. The Latin has the same ambiguity (purgans can go with secessum, or with the subject of dicebat), but the Pshitta allows only the former interpretation (ܕ݁ܰܡܕ݂ܰܟ݁ܝܳܐ is feminine and must therefore go with ܬ݂ܰܕ݂ܟ݁ܺܝܬ݂ܳܐ). The Vetus Syrus, however, allows both interpretations, though the latter (with Jesus as the referent) seems very forced.

Is there any reason to think that Mark 7:19 has a later addition?

 

[HARK!]

However you define Gentiles and Israel, believers, who were Gentiles were not asked to follow the Levitical unclean food laws. In Acts ch15, you could quote verse 19 as to them just coming to the faith. But years later in Acts21:25 it was reconfirmed no laws were being added to those decided on in Acts ch15. So for the whole of their lives Gentile believers could eat the Levitical unclean foods.

I've skimmed over that chapter a few times now; and I still don't see how you're coming to this conclusion. I might do a study on this, if you can give me prima facia evidence of your claim.

How do you come to the conclusion that this letter was written to the Galatians years after they were initially told to abstain from these things?

 

[not under law]

I've skimmed over that chapter a few times now; and I still don't see how you're coming to this conclusion. I might do a study on this, if you can give me prima facia evidence of your claim.

How do you come to the conclusion that this letter was written to the Galatians years after they were initially told to abstain from these things?

If you still do not understand my thoughts it is best to leave it there. As I didn't come to the conclusion the letter was written to the galatians, it seems it is hopeless for us to understand each other concerning this subject. Best to leave it there. You will have to work out a doctrine that lets you believe I can be in a saved state, whilst having no conviction of sin concerning law you believe is in my heart and mind

 

[not under law]

I've skimmed over that chapter a few times now; and I still don't see how you're coming to this conclusion. I might do a study on this, if you can give me prima facia evidence of your claim.

How do you come to the conclusion that this letter was written to the Galatians years after they were initially told to abstain from these things?

As you shared with me, I would like to reciprocate. At a young age, I responded to an altar call and became a Christian. The first thing I noticed that was different about me was, I became aware of my sin/shortcomings before God. And even at that young age, I knew I had to change, and live as God wanted me to live, not as I had previously lived. I got angry at times(as kids and adults do) I knew it was wrong, I told some fibs(as kids do) that made me feel bad too, I didn’t have the love for others I should have, that was wrong also. And every so often I would get down on my knees and I pleaded with God to forgive me my wrongs. And I believed he did, I felt cleansed of them. But the problem was, they always came back. I could not continually stay in that cleansed state.

Then I reached puberty, and my problems gretly increased, for along came impure thoughts. I honestly did not want them, I knew that if you are going to obey God/His laws you have to obey on the inside, it is not enough to obey outwardly. In truth, I feared those impure thoughts, for I in reality believed I was justified/righteous by obeying God’s laws, and I was not obeying them was I. I couldnt make excuses for sin, God’s laws are not arbitrary, they must be obeyed, all of them. So I was in big trouble. And the more I feared those impure thoughts would send me to hell the worse they got. I used to look at the members of the church on Sundays, and wondered what I was doing in the church. They were all smartly dressed, the women wore fancy hats, and after the service I received a Godly smile, and a relevant scripture verse if it was felt necessary. I honestly believed they must live perfect lives, what you saw in church was how they lived 24/7. Though I could act like that for a time on a Sunday ojutwardly, inside I was just getting more consumed all the time by sin. I was conscious of it, and convicted of it severely. I knew Jesus died for my sins, but what good was that to me now? I could not obey God’s good and Holy laws.

I felt dirty, rotten and useless, and great fear overcame me. But I must add here, for all the conviction of sin I was burdened with at that time, eating pork, and Saturday Sabbath were not two of them.

In the end I had no choice, I walked away from the church for a while, I could not obey God’s good and Holy laws, especially on the inside, I refused to be a hypocrite so left. Looking back at that time now, how could I explain it? I would never have known what sin truly was if the law had not been placed in my most inward parts. But through my knowledge of the commandment: Thou shalt not covet, all manner of concupiscence was aroused in me. I had felt alive once, I had been a normal happy kid before I made that commitment to God, but when the law was placed inside of me, sin consciousness sprang to life and I slowly started to die/felt condemned. The commandments I believed would give me life/righteousness if I obeyed them, instead brought death/condemnation, for I could not keep them. Sin, through the commandment that was holy, just and good slew me, and I became utterly sinfull.

But then, I had never read beyond the Gospels at that time. To cut a long story short. When I finally read Paul’s letters a few years later, I was stunned to learn, I had no righteousness of obeying the law, my righteousness was faith in Christ. Once I followed that the sin started to lessen. A sin I had been a slave to for six years stopped. When I lived under law it only got worse. When I followed the way of Saul the Pharisee the sin increased, when I followed the teaching of Paul the Christian it lessened. It really is true:

For sin shall no longer be your master for you are not under law but under grace Rom6:14

 

[HARK!]

As you shared with me, I would like to reciprocate. At a young age, I responded to an altar call and became a Christian. The first thing I noticed that was different about me was, I became aware of my sin/shortcomings before God. And even at that young age, I knew I had to change, and live as God wanted me to live, not as I had previously lived. I got angry at times(as kids and adults do) I knew it was wrong, I told some fibs(as kids do) that made me feel bad too, I didn’t have the love for others I should have, that was wrong also. And every so often I would get down on my knees and I pleaded with God to forgive me my wrongs. And I believed he did, I felt cleansed of them. But the problem was, they always came back. I could not continually stay in that cleansed state.

Then I reached puberty, and my problems gretly increased, for along came impure thoughts. I honestly did not want them, I knew that if you are going to obey God/His laws you have to obey on the inside, it is not enough to obey outwardly. In truth, I feared those impure thoughts, for I in reality believed I was justified/righteous by obeying God’s laws, and I was not obeying them was I. I couldnt make excuses for sin, God’s laws are not arbitrary, they must be obeyed, all of them. So I was in big trouble. And the more I feared those impure thoughts would send me to hell the worse they got. I used to look at the members of the church on Sundays, and wondered what I was doing in the church. They were all smartly dressed, the women wore fancy hats, and after the service I received a Godly smile, and a relevant scripture verse if it was felt necessary. I honestly believed they must live perfect lives, what you saw in church was how they lived 24/7. Though I could act like that for a time on a Sunday ojutwardly, inside I was just getting more consumed all the time by sin. I was conscious of it, and convicted of it severely. I knew Jesus died for my sins, but what good was that to me now? I could not obey God’s good and Holy laws.

I felt dirty, rotten and useless, and great fear overcame me. But I must add here, for all the conviction of sin I was burdened with at that time, eating pork, and Saturday Sabbath were not two of them.

In the end I had no choice, I walked away from the church for a while, I could not obey God’s good and Holy laws, especially on the inside, I refused to be a hypocrite so left. Looking back at that time now, how could I explain it? I would never have known what sin truly was if the law had not been placed in my most inward parts. But through my knowledge of the commandment: Thou shalt not covet, all manner of concupiscence was aroused in me. I had felt alive once, I had been a normal happy kid before I made that commitment to God, but when the law was placed inside of me, sin consciousness sprang to life and I slowly started to die/felt condemned. The commandments I believed would give me life/righteousness if I obeyed them, instead brought death/condemnation, for I could not keep them. Sin, through the commandment that was holy, just and good slew me, and I became utterly sinfull.

But then, I had never read beyond the Gospels at that time. To cut a long story short. When I finally read Paul’s letters a few years later, I was stunned to learn, I had no righteousness of obeying the law, my righteousness was faith in Christ. Once I followed that the sin started to lessen. A sin I had been a slave to for six years stopped. When I lived under law it only got worse. When I followed the way of Saul the Pharisee the sin increased, when I followed the teaching of Paul the Christian it lessened. It really is true:

For sin shall no longer be your master for you are not under law but under grace Rom6:14

I've said this before in these forums. I'll say it again:

The two Great commandments are a summary of the Decalogue. The Decalogue is a summary of the 613. The 613 is a summary of what YHWH has written on our hearts. No man taught me this. I didn't come to it on my own. It was revealed to me. I've found that the more I'm showered in YHWH's light, the more darkness it reveals with in me. He shows me the depth of the darkness that I turn from. Satan tries to drag me back in guilt for my wickedness. By giving thought to darkness that is behind me; I take due attention from the light that is before me. We are to give YHWH all of our minds. If I feel guilt for what is behind me; then I am in sin. This is not in the 613; so how could I know this? It was revealed in my dedication to the Father. If I feel guilt for what is behind me; then I have no faith that what is in front of me, has forgiven me for what is behind me. I'm looking into darkness instead of into light. We are to rejoice in the love of our Father. We are to be thankful that he is taking us from darkness. A thought for my guilt; is a thought that I have stolen from him. It's not about me. it's about him.

Hallelu YAH!

That is my experience. Consider the focus of what YHWH calls me to, all thoughts for him. Simple day to day life is very distracting to this purpose. It's a struggle; but I believe that it's a struggle for everyone; no matter where we are in our walks.

You like Paul. Let's look at Paul's experience. Look at the war that he was dealing with: Paul on the Law: Romans Chapter 7

Continued from: Romans Chapter 6

Romans 7 (CLV)
1 Or are you ignorant, brethren (for I am speaking to those who know law),

Paul is after all a lawyer.
When a lawyer is speaking legalese; a layman might think that he knows what a lawyer is telling him in plain English; but if he looks up the terms in a Black's Law dictionary; he might find that the Lawyer meant something very much different. In the last chapter we found that Paul uses the word "law" to define many aspects of different types of law which conflict with each other.

When Paul speaks of "the law;" which law is he talking about, the law we are not under, the law which we are to sustain, the law which is written on our hearts, the law Messiah frees us from, or something else?

that the law is lording it over a man for as much time as he is living?

The Law of Sin and Death

2 For a woman in wedlock is bound to a living man by law. Yet if the man should be dying, she is exempt from the law of the man." 3 Consequently, then, while the man is living, she will be styled an adulteress if she should be becoming another man's, yet, if the man should be dying, she is free from the law, being no adulteress on becoming another man's."

Free from the Law of Sin and Death. She is no longer the slave of Satan. She can then remarry into a covenant of life.

The Law of Life

(CLV) Ro 8:2
for the spirit's law of life in Christ Yahshua frees you from the law of sin and death.

Yahshua follows YHWH's law, the Torah. Yahshua call us to follow him in Torah.

4 So that, my brethren, you also were put to death to the law

The Law of Sin and Death

through the body of Christ, for you to become Another's, Who is roused from among the dead,

The Law of Life

that we should be bearing fruit to God."

Obedience to the Torah is the fruit of faith.

5 For, when we were in the flesh, the passions of sins, which were through the law, operated in our members to be bearing fruit to Death."

The Law of Sin and Death

What is sin?

(CLV) 1Jn 3:4
Everyone who is doing sin is doing lawlessness also, and sin is lawlessness.

Trangression of the law (Torah).

6 Yet now we were exempted from the law, dying in that in which we were retained,

The law of Sin and Death

so that it is for us to be slaving in newness of spirit and not in oldness of letter."

The Law of Faith

(CLV) Ro 3:27
Where, then, is boasting? It is debarred! Through what law? Of works? Not! But through faith's law.

7 What, then, shall we declare? That the law is sin? May it not be coming to that! But sin I knew not except through law.

Torah

For besides, I had not been aware of coveting except the law said, "You shall not be coveting." 8 Now Sin, getting an incentive through the precept, produces in me all manner of coveting. For apart from law Sin is dead."

What is sin?

(CLV) 1Jn 3:4
Everyone who is doing sin is doing lawlessness also, and sin is lawlessness.

Trangression of the law (Torah).

9 Now I lived, apart from law, once, yet at the coming of the precept Sin revives. Yet I died, 10 and it was found that, to me, the precept for life, this is for death." 11 For Sin, getting an incentive through the precept, deludes me, and through it, kills me."

Spirit warring against the flesh.

12 So that the law, indeed, is holy, and the precept holy and just and good."

Torah

13 Became good, then, death to me? May it not be coming to that!

The Law of Sin and Death is bad.

But Sin, that it may be appearing Sin, is producing death to me through good

The Law of Life

Reborn in Yahshua

, that Sin may become an inordinate sinner through the precept." 14 For we are aware that the law is spiritual, yet I am fleshly, having been disposed of under Sin." 15 For what I am effecting I know not, for not what I will, this I am putting into practice, but what I am hating, this I am doing." 16 Now if what I am not willing, this I am doing, I am conceding that the law is ideal."

Paul continues to speak of the spirit warring against the flesh. The ideal law is obviously not The Law of Sin and Death.

17 Yet now it is no longer I who am effecting it, but Sin making its home in me." 18 For I am aware that good is not making its home in me (that is, in my flesh), for to will is lying beside me, yet to be effecting the ideal is not." 19 For it is not the good that I will that I am doing, but the evil that I am not willing, this I am putting into practice." 20 Now if what I am not willing, this I am doing, it is no longer I who am effecting it, but Sin which is making its home in me."

The war continues.

What is sin?

(CLV) 1Jn 3:4
Everyone who is doing sin is doing lawlessness also, and sin is lawlessness.

21 Consequently, I am finding the law that, at my willing to be doing the ideal, the evil is lying beside me." 22 For I am gratified with the law of God as to the man within,

Torah

23 yet I am observing a different law in my members, warring with the law of my mind, and leading me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members."

Here we have some new laws. The Law of My Mind and The Law of Sin.

Leave to a lawyer to come up with so many nebulous laws.

24 A wretched man am I! What will rescue me out of this body of death? Grace! 25 I thank God, through Jesus Christ, our Lord. Consequently, then, I myself, with the mind, indeed, am slaving for God's law, yet with the flesh for Sin's law."

Slaving for YHWH's Law..... These don't strike me as the words of someone who is not under YHWH's Law.


The Law of YHWH (Torah) wars with The Law of Sin.


Legal Terms:

The Law of Faith (Ch 3)
A Different Law (Ch 7)
The Law of My Mind (Ch 7)
The Law of Sin (Sin's Law) (Ch 7)
God's Law (Ch 7)
The Spirit's Law of Life (Ch 8)
The Law of Sin and Death (Ch 8)
The Law of Righteousness (Ch 9)


Romans Chapter 8

 

[not under law]

I've said this before in these forums. I'll say it again:

The two Great commandments are a summary of the Decalogue. The Decalogue is a summary of the 613. The 613 is a summary of what YHWH has written on our hearts. No man taught me this. I didn't come to it on my own. It was revealed to me. I've found that the more I'm showered in YHWH's light, the more darkness it reveals with in me. He shows me the depth of the darkness that I turn from. Satan tries to drag me back in guilt for my wickedness. By giving thought to darkness that is behind me; I take due attention from the light that is before me. We are to give YHWH all of our minds. If I feel guilt for what is behind me; then I am in sin. This is not in the 613; so how could I know this? It was revealed in my dedication to the Father. If I feel guilt for what is behind me; then I have no faith that what is in front of me, has forgiven me for what is behind me. I'm looking into darkness instead of into light. We are to rejoice in the love of our Father. We are to be thankful that he is taking us from darkness. A thought for my guilt; is a thought that I have stolen from him. It's not about me. it's about him.

Hallelu YAH!

That is my experience. Consider the focus of what YHWH calls me to, all thoughts for him. Simple day to day life is very distracting to this purpose. It's a struggle; but I believe that it's a struggle for everyone; no matter where we are in our walks.

You like Paul. Let's look at Paul's experience. Look at the war that he was dealing with: Paul on the Law: Romans Chapter 7

Continued from: Romans Chapter 6

Romans 7 (CLV)
1 Or are you ignorant, brethren (for I am speaking to those who know law),

Paul is after all a lawyer.
When a lawyer is speaking legalese; a layman might think that he knows what a lawyer is telling him in plain English; but if he looks up the terms in a Black's Law dictionary; he might find that the Lawyer meant something very much different. In the last chapter we found that Paul uses the word "law" to define many aspects of different types of law which conflict with each other.

When Paul speaks of "the law;" which law is he talking about, the law we are not under, the law which we are to sustain, the law which is written on our hearts, the law Messiah frees us from, or something else?

that the law is lording it over a man for as much time as he is living?

The Law of Sin and Death

2 For a woman in wedlock is bound to a living man by law. Yet if the man should be dying, she is exempt from the law of the man." 3 Consequently, then, while the man is living, she will be styled an adulteress if she should be becoming another man's, yet, if the man should be dying, she is free from the law, being no adulteress on becoming another man's."

Free from the Law of Sin and Death. She is no longer the slave of Satan. She can then remarry into a covenant of life.

The Law of Life

(CLV) Ro 8:2
for the spirit's law of life in Christ Yahshua frees you from the law of sin and death.

Yahshua follows YHWH's law, the Torah. Yahshua call us to follow him in Torah.

4 So that, my brethren, you also were put to death to the law

The Law of Sin and Death

through the body of Christ, for you to become Another's, Who is roused from among the dead,

The Law of Life

that we should be bearing fruit to God."

Obedience to the Torah is the fruit of faith.

5 For, when we were in the flesh, the passions of sins, which were through the law, operated in our members to be bearing fruit to Death."

The Law of Sin and Death

What is sin?

(CLV) 1Jn 3:4
Everyone who is doing sin is doing lawlessness also, and sin is lawlessness.

Trangression of the law (Torah).

6 Yet now we were exempted from the law, dying in that in which we were retained,

The law of Sin and Death

so that it is for us to be slaving in newness of spirit and not in oldness of letter."

The Law of Faith

(CLV) Ro 3:27
Where, then, is boasting? It is debarred! Through what law? Of works? Not! But through faith's law.

7 What, then, shall we declare? That the law is sin? May it not be coming to that! But sin I knew not except through law.

Torah

For besides, I had not been aware of coveting except the law said, "You shall not be coveting." 8 Now Sin, getting an incentive through the precept, produces in me all manner of coveting. For apart from law Sin is dead."

What is sin?

(CLV) 1Jn 3:4
Everyone who is doing sin is doing lawlessness also, and sin is lawlessness.

Trangression of the law (Torah).

9 Now I lived, apart from law, once, yet at the coming of the precept Sin revives. Yet I died, 10 and it was found that, to me, the precept for life, this is for death." 11 For Sin, getting an incentive through the precept, deludes me, and through it, kills me."

Spirit warring against the flesh.

12 So that the law, indeed, is holy, and the precept holy and just and good."

Torah

13 Became good, then, death to me? May it not be coming to that!

The Law of Sin and Death is bad.

But Sin, that it may be appearing Sin, is producing death to me through good

The Law of Life

Reborn in Yahshua

, that Sin may become an inordinate sinner through the precept." 14 For we are aware that the law is spiritual, yet I am fleshly, having been disposed of under Sin." 15 For what I am effecting I know not, for not what I will, this I am putting into practice, but what I am hating, this I am doing." 16 Now if what I am not willing, this I am doing, I am conceding that the law is ideal."

Paul continues to speak of the spirit warring against the flesh. The ideal law is obviously not The Law of Sin and Death.

17 Yet now it is no longer I who am effecting it, but Sin making its home in me." 18 For I am aware that good is not making its home in me (that is, in my flesh), for to will is lying beside me, yet to be effecting the ideal is not." 19 For it is not the good that I will that I am doing, but the evil that I am not willing, this I am putting into practice." 20 Now if what I am not willing, this I am doing, it is no longer I who am effecting it, but Sin which is making its home in me."

The war continues.

What is sin?

(CLV) 1Jn 3:4
Everyone who is doing sin is doing lawlessness also, and sin is lawlessness.

21 Consequently, I am finding the law that, at my willing to be doing the ideal, the evil is lying beside me." 22 For I am gratified with the law of God as to the man within,

Torah

23 yet I am observing a different law in my members, warring with the law of my mind, and leading me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members."

Here we have some new laws. The Law of My Mind and The Law of Sin.

Leave to a lawyer to come up with so many nebulous laws.

24 A wretched man am I! What will rescue me out of this body of death? Grace! 25 I thank God, through Jesus Christ, our Lord. Consequently, then, I myself, with the mind, indeed, am slaving for God's law, yet with the flesh for Sin's law."

Slaving for YHWH's Law..... These don't strike me as the words of someone who is not under YHWH's Law.


The Law of YHWH (Torah) wars with The Law of Sin.


Legal Terms:

The Law of Faith (Ch 3)
A Different Law (Ch 7)
The Law of My Mind (Ch 7)
The Law of Sin (Sin's Law) (Ch 7)
God's Law (Ch 7)
The Spirit's Law of Life (Ch 8)
The Law of Sin and Death (Ch 8)
The Law of Righteousness (Ch 9)


Romans Chapter 8

Well thank you for what you shared, but we disagree about Paul's statements concerning the law and grace. Not being under the law is not being under righteousness of obeying the law. It is a spiritual message, the human brain cannot fathom it, it was never meant to. The Holy Spirit leads us into truth. Most instinctively believe, if you remove righteousness of obeying the law you have a licence to sin, the true believer does not, in truth it is victory over sin

 

[HARK!]

if you remove righteousness of obeying the law

You can't remove righteousness from obeying the law.

Definition of righteous
1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin

Definition of RIGHTEOUS

Righteousness is obedience to the law by definition.

 

[not under law]

I've said this before in these forums. I'll say it again:

The two Great commandments are a summary of the Decalogue. The Decalogue is a summary of the 613. The 613 is a summary of what YHWH has written on our hearts. No man taught me this. I didn't come to it on my own. It was revealed to me. I've found that the more I'm showered in YHWH's light, the more darkness it reveals with in me. He shows me the depth of the darkness that I turn from. Satan tries to drag me back in guilt for my wickedness. By giving thought to darkness that is behind me; I take due attention from the light that is before me. We are to give YHWH all of our minds. If I feel guilt for what is behind me; then I am in sin. This is not in the 613; so how could I know this? It was revealed in my dedication to the Father. If I feel guilt for what is behind me; then I have no faith that what is in front of me, has forgiven me for what is behind me. I'm looking into darkness instead of into light. We are to rejoice in the love of our Father. We are to be thankful that he is taking us from darkness. A thought for my guilt; is a thought that I have stolen from him. It's not about me. it's about him.

Hallelu YAH!

That is my experience. Consider the focus of what YHWH calls me to, all thoughts for him. Simple day to day life is very distracting to this purpose. It's a struggle; but I believe that it's a struggle for everyone; no matter where we are in our walks.

You like Paul. Let's look at Paul's experience. Look at the war that he was dealing with: Paul on the Law: Romans Chapter 7

Continued from: Romans Chapter 6

Romans 7 (CLV)
1 Or are you ignorant, brethren (for I am speaking to those who know law),

Paul is after all a lawyer.
When a lawyer is speaking legalese; a layman might think that he knows what a lawyer is telling him in plain English; but if he looks up the terms in a Black's Law dictionary; he might find that the Lawyer meant something very much different. In the last chapter we found that Paul uses the word "law" to define many aspects of different types of law which conflict with each other.

When Paul speaks of "the law;" which law is he talking about, the law we are not under, the law which we are to sustain, the law which is written on our hearts, the law Messiah frees us from, or something else?

that the law is lording it over a man for as much time as he is living?

The Law of Sin and Death

2 For a woman in wedlock is bound to a living man by law. Yet if the man should be dying, she is exempt from the law of the man." 3 Consequently, then, while the man is living, she will be styled an adulteress if she should be becoming another man's, yet, if the man should be dying, she is free from the law, being no adulteress on becoming another man's."

Free from the Law of Sin and Death. She is no longer the slave of Satan. She can then remarry into a covenant of life.

The Law of Life

(CLV) Ro 8:2
for the spirit's law of life in Christ Yahshua frees you from the law of sin and death.

Yahshua follows YHWH's law, the Torah. Yahshua call us to follow him in Torah.

4 So that, my brethren, you also were put to death to the law

The Law of Sin and Death

through the body of Christ, for you to become Another's, Who is roused from among the dead,

The Law of Life

that we should be bearing fruit to God."

Obedience to the Torah is the fruit of faith.

5 For, when we were in the flesh, the passions of sins, which were through the law, operated in our members to be bearing fruit to Death."

The Law of Sin and Death

What is sin?

(CLV) 1Jn 3:4
Everyone who is doing sin is doing lawlessness also, and sin is lawlessness.

Trangression of the law (Torah).

6 Yet now we were exempted from the law, dying in that in which we were retained,

The law of Sin and Death

so that it is for us to be slaving in newness of spirit and not in oldness of letter."

The Law of Faith

(CLV) Ro 3:27
Where, then, is boasting? It is debarred! Through what law? Of works? Not! But through faith's law.

7 What, then, shall we declare? That the law is sin? May it not be coming to that! But sin I knew not except through law.

Torah

For besides, I had not been aware of coveting except the law said, "You shall not be coveting." 8 Now Sin, getting an incentive through the precept, produces in me all manner of coveting. For apart from law Sin is dead."

What is sin?

(CLV) 1Jn 3:4
Everyone who is doing sin is doing lawlessness also, and sin is lawlessness.

Trangression of the law (Torah).

9 Now I lived, apart from law, once, yet at the coming of the precept Sin revives. Yet I died, 10 and it was found that, to me, the precept for life, this is for death." 11 For Sin, getting an incentive through the precept, deludes me, and through it, kills me."

Spirit warring against the flesh.

12 So that the law, indeed, is holy, and the precept holy and just and good."

Torah

13 Became good, then, death to me? May it not be coming to that!

The Law of Sin and Death is bad.

But Sin, that it may be appearing Sin, is producing death to me through good

The Law of Life

Reborn in Yahshua

, that Sin may become an inordinate sinner through the precept." 14 For we are aware that the law is spiritual, yet I am fleshly, having been disposed of under Sin." 15 For what I am effecting I know not, for not what I will, this I am putting into practice, but what I am hating, this I am doing." 16 Now if what I am not willing, this I am doing, I am conceding that the law is ideal."

Paul continues to speak of the spirit warring against the flesh. The ideal law is obviously not The Law of Sin and Death.

17 Yet now it is no longer I who am effecting it, but Sin making its home in me." 18 For I am aware that good is not making its home in me (that is, in my flesh), for to will is lying beside me, yet to be effecting the ideal is not." 19 For it is not the good that I will that I am doing, but the evil that I am not willing, this I am putting into practice." 20 Now if what I am not willing, this I am doing, it is no longer I who am effecting it, but Sin which is making its home in me."

The war continues.

What is sin?

(CLV) 1Jn 3:4
Everyone who is doing sin is doing lawlessness also, and sin is lawlessness.

21 Consequently, I am finding the law that, at my willing to be doing the ideal, the evil is lying beside me." 22 For I am gratified with the law of God as to the man within,

Torah

23 yet I am observing a different law in my members, warring with the law of my mind, and leading me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members."

Here we have some new laws. The Law of My Mind and The Law of Sin.

Leave to a lawyer to come up with so many nebulous laws.

24 A wretched man am I! What will rescue me out of this body of death? Grace! 25 I thank God, through Jesus Christ, our Lord. Consequently, then, I myself, with the mind, indeed, am slaving for God's law, yet with the flesh for Sin's law."

Slaving for YHWH's Law..... These don't strike me as the words of someone who is not under YHWH's Law.


The Law of YHWH (Torah) wars with The Law of Sin.


Legal Terms:

The Law of Faith (Ch 3)
A Different Law (Ch 7)
The Law of My Mind (Ch 7)
The Law of Sin (Sin's Law) (Ch 7)
God's Law (Ch 7)
The Spirit's Law of Life (Ch 8)
The Law of Sin and Death (Ch 8)
The Law of Righteousness (Ch 9)


Romans Chapter 8

BTW, as I am sure you realise, rom 7:7-11 is all about when the law came to Saul the Pharisee and what happened through his knowledge of the commandment: Thou shalt not covet. Verses 14-24 is a more detailed account of this, and it concerns the same commandment, one of the ten

 

[not under law]

You can't remove righteousness from obeying the law.

Definition of righteous
1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin

Definition of RIGHTEOUS

Righteousness is obedience to the law by definition.

Righteousness means justification

Paul states:
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in His sight by observing the law/works of the law, rather through the law we become conscious of sin Rom3:20