Unbelief... In my Fathers house?

[IAMstillis]

Hi forum family I wanted to share something with you all and I'm hoping you'll weigh in...

So this sunday the message for the morning was about a man named Joey who resented his family and hated God for his circumstances. This was contrasted with Joseph and how he handled being mistreated by his brothers and loved God in spite of it all. Long story short Joey lives a destructive life to spite his family and ultimately kills him self. But not before writing a note in which he tells the Assistant Pastor I hope I'll see you on the other side. To this our AP says he hopes that means he gave his life to Christ... But what if he didn't?

This got me thinking: So, if someone you never met before professed they hated everything you stood for but they wanted to move in with you and live with you forever... What would you say? Probably the same thing the God of Abraham will say to the unbeliever... Just something I thought about today

When I posted this on Facebook it bothered one of my friends of many years who is a non-practicing Jew, and so she replied in an effort to refute my statement. So I have two questions for you. Should I not have posted this on FB? and Why do people who swear they do not want or need Jesus or His promised redemption want so badly to be accepted into His heaven? It's killing me...

 

[gods prophetess]

um i dont know maybe they are messed up

 

[BFine]

Did you ask your friend that who responded to your FB post?

 

[IAMstillis]

No... I didn't want to get her all roused up. I've talked to her about it before and honestly i just don't think she wants to hear it. It's not something she's passionate about. She'll say it isn't so but never really the the time to look into it... You know what I mean?

 

[bred11six]

The bible states that Satan is the god of this world 2 Cor 4:4 he has blinded them from the truth. Some won't understand we as believers should pray for these people that they get deliverance.

 

[WilliamB]

One thing you can be certain of, is there wont be any unbelievers standing before God at judgement.

 

[Ark100]

So Joey self-destructed himself because he was angry at God.
That's sad. The enemy is a loser indeed!
But telling the AP see you on the other side may not mean he was talking about seeing him in heaven. Do you think he might have been referring to hell?
Some people resent even men of God who preach that they always think the men of God would end up in hell as well...
The Lord is always very faithful, and He does not want anyone to perish but to have everlasting life, but unfortunately some people's eyes and ears are closed.
As someone said, the enemy is down here.
I had a vision one time that The Lord revealed to me, and it was a powerful vision of how the enemy was hauled down from heaven, and into the sea...to earth. The Lord's scroll was dropped on his head as a final judgement.
The Lord was revealing to me how I/we need to be close to Him at all times, even when we are saved. We should not relent or lay back and distant ourselves from THE one who saved us.
The enemy is really roaring about and not just at unbelievers, infact hes not worried about unbelievers because he knows he got them already. he is more worried about believers and he would do anything he can, any lies he can tell, any form he can take, any shape he can morph into, any ideas he can come up with to assure people that they are okay if God is not with them.
he would tell them 'sure God does not mind if you do so and so'.

I don;t think you are wrong to post that one facebook. whatever you do, some people would be against it, but the ones who take something out of it as lesson will be saved.
What you posted would have got a few or many thinking about their own salvation, so don't doubt yourself if you did the right thing in regards to that.

Your last question is simply because they don't know the truth, it has not been revealed to them because their ears are closed. Muslims think Christians are worshipping a prophet (They think Jesus was only a prophet and nothing more). They think we are rather worshipping a prophet rather than worshipping God. They don't understand because they don't know that Jesus Christ and The Father are one.

 

[seeingeyes]

This got me thinking: So, if someone you never met before professed they hated everything you stood for but they wanted to move in with you and live with you forever... What would you say? Probably the same thing the God of Abraham will say to the unbeliever... Just something I thought about today

Would that be the same thing that the God of Abraham would say to those of us that are decidely not the children of Abraham? Should we Gentiles, who have received God's grace without even an ancestral link to lean on, act just like the Jews before us and close the door of God's grace behind us?

Joey essentially told the assistant pastor, "see you in hell", and the assistant pastor told him, "oh no you won't". Each of them is judging the soul of the other, but only one of them has been given orders by Jesus not to.

What right do we have to call ourselves "sons of the Living God"? Is it because we prayed the right prayer? Is it because we believe the right doctrine? Is it because we play so nice with each other? No. It is only by God's effort that we can even see God at all.

What did God do when He saw us all reveling in hatred and murder and spite and greed? What did He do to us when we hated Him? He sent His own son to die for us.

The better question is: would you be willing to give up your seat in heaven for that foul, self-destructive man? Isn't that what Jesus did for you?

 

[IAMstillis]

So Joey self-destructed himself because he was angry at God.
That's sad. The enemy is a loser indeed!
But telling the AP see you on the other side may not mean he was talking about seeing him in heaven. Do you think he might have been referring to hell?
Some people resent even men of God who preach that they always think the men of God would end up in hell as well...
The Lord is always very faithful, and He does not want anyone to perish but to have everlasting life, but unfortunately some people's eyes and ears are closed.
As someone said, the enemy is down here.
I had a vision one time that The Lord revealed to me, and it was a powerful vision of how the enemy was hauled down from heaven, and into the sea...to earth. The Lord's scroll was dropped on his head as a final judgement.
The Lord was revealing to me how I/we need to be close to Him at all times, even when we are saved. We should not relent or lay back and distant ourselves from THE one who saved us.
The enemy is really roaring about and not just at unbelievers, infact hes not worried about unbelievers because he knows he got them already. he is more worried about believers and he would do anything he can, any lies he can tell, any form he can take, any shape he can morph into, any ideas he can come up with to assure people that they are okay if God is not with them.
he would tell them 'sure God does not mind if you do so and so'.

I don;t think you are wrong to post that one facebook. whatever you do, some people would be against it, but the ones who take something out of it as lesson will be saved.
What you posted would have got a few or many thinking about their own salvation, so don't doubt yourself if you did the right thing in regards to that.

Your last question is simply because they don't know the truth, it has not been revealed to them because their ears are closed. Muslims think Christians are worshipping a prophet (They think Jesus was only a prophet and nothing more). They think we are rather worshipping a prophet rather than worshipping God. They don't understand because they don't know that Jesus Christ and The Father are one.

Thank you. I just asked because it make me sad, you know, but all i can do is scatter my seed and hope it falls on good fertile soil.

 

[IAMstillis]

Would that be the same thing that the God of Abraham would say to those of us that are decidely not the children of Abraham? Should we Gentiles, who have received God's grace without even an ancestral link to lean on, act just like the Jews before us and close the door of God's grace behind us?

Joey essentially told the assistant pastor, "see you in hell", and the assistant pastor told him, "oh no you won't". Each of them is judging the soul of the other, but only one of them has been given orders by Jesus not to.

What right do we have to call ourselves "sons of the Living God"? Is it because we prayed the right prayer? Is it because we believe the right doctrine? Is it because we play so nice with each other? No. It is only by God's effort that we can even see God at all.

What did God do when He saw us all reveling in hatred and murder and spite and greed? What did He do to us when we hated Him? He sent His own son to die for us.

The better question is: would you be willing to give up your seat in heaven for that foul, self-destructive man? Isn't that what Jesus did for you?

I totally understand where your coming from, but the question I was posing to my FB friends is not so much What should I do, or what has Christ done for the world, but what would they do.
With that said I want to answer your question regarding whether or not I myself would give up my seat. The answer is a resounding no. Because I want to spend an eternity in paradise with the king of kings. and I want my friends to come too,so I witness to them and try to live my life as an example of what Christ wants us to be. Scripturally there is no basis to suggest we can trade places with the lost, that's why evangelism is so necessary, but even if I could switch i wouldn't. And I don't think it's accurate to say Jesus gave up his seat for me because though he went down to hell and conquered death he is currently seated at the right hand of God. Where as if I were to go to hell I'd have to stay. I don't want that, that's part of why I do what I do, because I don't want to go to hell.

 

[seeingeyes]

I totally understand where your coming from, but the question I was posing to my FB friends is not so much What should I do, or what has Christ done for the world, but what would they do.
With that said I want to answer your question regarding whether or not I myself would give up my seat. The answer is a resounding no. Because I want to spend an eternity in paradise with the king of kings. and I want my friends to come too,so I witness to them and try to live my life as an example of what Christ wants us to be. Scripturally there is no basis to suggest we can trade places with the lost, that's why evangelism is so necessary, but even if I could switch i wouldn't. And I don't think it's accurate to say Jesus gave up his seat for me because though he went down to hell and conquered death he is currently seated at the right hand of God. Where as if I were to go to hell I'd have to stay. I don't want that, that's part of why I do what I do, because I don't want to go to hell.

Who knows if that would even be possible, but Paul was willing:
"I speak the truth in Christ—I am not lying, my conscience confirms it in the Holy Spirit— I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, those of my own race, the people of Israel." (Romans 9)

Why is Jesus currently seated at the right hand of God? Isn't he there because he was willing to give up everything both for us and for the Father?: "He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Did not the Christ have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?” (Luke 24)

Coveting "heavenly" blessings is really no better than coveting "earthly" blessings if the end result is not a sacrifice of love:

"Then James and John, the sons of Zebedee, came to him. “Teacher,” they said, “we want you to do for us whatever we ask.” “What do you want me to do for you?” he asked. They replied, “Let one of us sit at your right and the other at your left in your glory.”
“You don’t know what you are asking,” Jesus said. “Can you drink the cup I drink or be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with?”
“We can,” they answered.
Jesus said to them, “You will drink the cup I drink and be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with, but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared.” When the ten heard about this, they became indignant with James and John. Jesus called them together and said, “You know that those who are regarded as rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be slave of all. For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”



God bless

 

[Ark100]

Wanting to Keep one's salvation for self is not 'coveting heavenly blessings'
Salvation is offered/given only by The Lord, and it cannot and can never ever be exchanged for another person's salvation.
Everyone has the opportunity to be saved for God does not want any to perish but have eternal life. If someone decided they were not interested in being saved, then why would someone else want to give them their own salvation?
You are either for or against God. I don't think anyone whom Christ has saved would let go of the opportunity to spend eternal life with the Father and rather burn for eternity in a lake of fire.

 

[seeingeyes]

Wanting to Keep one's salvation for self is not 'coveting heavenly blessings'
Salvation is offered/given only by The Lord, and it cannot and can never ever be exchanged for another person's salvation.
Everyone has the opportunity to be saved for God does not want any to perish but have eternal life. If someone decided they were not interested in being saved, then why would someone else want to give them their own salvation?
You are either for or against God. I don't think anyone whom Christ has saved would let go of the opportunity to spend eternal life with the Father and rather burn for eternity in a lake of fire.

Why would Paul want to be cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of his brothers who didn't want anything to do with Jesus? Love. Crazy, unbridled love. The kind of love that puts the son of God on the cross for sinners. The kind of love that Jesus had when he asked the Father to forgive the people who were currently murdering him.

No one knows precisely what happens after we die. God in His wisdom has given us a bit of information, but not the entire picture of eternity (if He had, the Bible would be a million pages longer!) But if we become more interested in the mechanics of the afterlife than in showing love to our God by showing love to our neighbors and our enemies in this life, then we have missed the point completely, just as the sons of Zebedee did when they asked to be seated at God's left and right.

My initial response was to this line in the OP:

This got me thinking: So, if someone you never met before professed they hated everything you stood for but they wanted to move in with you and live with you forever...

So what did God do when He was faced with a planet full of people who hated everything He stood for? He sent His own son to die for them while they were still in their sin. If we are not willing to do the same, then in what sense are we "for" God?

Joseph was a righteous man and his great faith ended up being the salvation of his brothers, who had tried to kill him. When his brothers showed up, he had every right to say, "ten of you are guilty of murder, even though I survived - It's time for you to get what you deserve" but instead, he forgave them and said, "what you meant for evil, God meant for good."

So yes, by all means, let's be like Joseph who was willing to forgive the guilty instead of consigning them to their guilt in order to make an evangelistic point.

God bless

 

[IAMstillis]

Wanting to Keep one's salvation for self is not 'coveting heavenly blessings'
Salvation is offered/given only by The Lord, and it cannot and can never ever be exchanged for another person's salvation.
Everyone has the opportunity to be saved for God does not want any to perish but have eternal life. If someone decided they were not interested in being saved, then why would someone else want to give them their own salvation?
You are either for or against God. I don't think anyone whom Christ has saved would let go of the opportunity to spend eternal life with the Father and rather burn for eternity in a lake of fire.

Thanks

 

[seeingeyes]

Wanting to Keep one's salvation for self is not 'coveting heavenly blessings'Salvation is offered/given only by The Lord, and it cannot and can never ever be exchanged for another person's salvation.Everyone has the opportunity to be saved for God does not want any to perish but have eternal life. If someone decided they were not interested in being saved, then why would someone else want to give them their own salvation?You are either for or against God. I don't think anyone whom Christ has saved would let go of the opportunity to spend eternal life with the Father and rather burn for eternity in a lake of fire.

Thanks

Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack your thread with controversy. I'll bow out, sister.

 

[PloverWing]

So this sunday the message for the morning was about a man named Joey who resented his family and hated God for his circumstances. This was contrasted with Joseph and how he handled being mistreated by his brothers and loved God in spite of it all. Long story short Joey lives a destructive life to spite his family and ultimately kills him self. But not before writing a note in which he tells the Assistant Pastor I hope I'll see you on the other side. To this our AP says he hopes that means he gave his life to Christ... But what if he didn't?

This got me thinking: So, if someone you never met before professed they hated everything you stood for but they wanted to move in with you and live with you forever... What would you say? Probably the same thing the God of Abraham will say to the unbeliever... Just something I thought about today

You've described Joey as "someone you never met", but God has met all of us -- created us all, in fact. So I think a better analogy would be that Joey is like an angry son. Suppose one of my children got very angry at me, and that he ran away from home and lived a self-destructive life in order to get back at me, or to work out his anger. Would I hope that he and I could one day be reconciled and he could come back into the family? Of course I would.

 

[PloverWing]

Regarding this question:

Why do people who swear they do not want or need Jesus or His promised redemption want so badly to be accepted into His heaven? It's killing me...

I see at least two situations that could apply:

1) A person who does not believe in God at all might see heaven as a place of happiness after death and still want that happiness. (Many atheists don't believe in any afterlife, of course, but some people seem to hold both a vague idea of religion and a vague idea of the afterlife, and may wish for happiness after death without really having thought through religious issues in a careful way.)

2) A person of another faith (such as your Jewish friend, perhaps) may believe in and love God, but may not agree with the claims that Christians make about Jesus. Such people may hope that after death they will be in the presence of the God they have always loved -- even if they disagree with us about Jesus being the incarnation of God.