UMC Split - the Traditional Denomination and the rest

[RileyG]

I have been tracking action by UMC churches that my dad used to pastor. Many have left, and those that did all became non-denoms, not Global UMC. I suspect the issue was so bitter for them that they didn't want to be associated with a denomination anymore.

Do they still follow Wesleyan theology or the Book of Discipline?

 

[tampasteve]

Do they still follow Wesleyan theology or the Book of Discipline?

Mine follows Wesleyan theology but not the Book of Discipline.

 

[RileyG]

Mine follows Wesleyan theology but not the Book of Discipline.

Thanks for answering!

 

[tampasteve]

Thanks for answering!

No problem

My church is one of the ones that was rather UMC incognito before they split. You really had to look for the UMC logo to know they were even part of the UMC since they changed names around 20 years ago.

 

[RileyG]

No problem

My church is one of the ones that was rather UMC incognito before they split. You really had to look for the UMC logo to know they were even part of the UMC since they changed names around 20 years ago.

Yeah, I have a former friend that Church also did the same. They have the logo but dropped Methodist form their name.

 

[seeking.IAM]

Do they still follow Wesleyan theology or the Book of Discipline?

I am unable to tell. Most of them have not re-constructed web sites since leaving. I am doubtful, although I do not know for certain.

 

[rockytopva]

I don't believe John Wesley willed the denomination and the UMC was the offspring of Asbury. Here in a letter to Francis Asbury he chastises Asbury for such activity. John Wesley would have a similar rebuke to today's UMC church, and then end such a rebuke with kind words. John Wesley, though, would have indeed reminded those who considered themselves Methodist of the original intentions of Methodism. The Methodist were not supposed to be a denomination to begin with. We were supposed to have been an elite group within the established denomination.

LONDON
September 20, 1788


My Dear Brother:

There is, indeed, a wide difference between the relation wherein you stand to the Americans and the relation wherein I stand to all the Methodists. You are the elder brother of the American Methodists: I am under God the father of the whole family. Therefore I naturally care for you all in a manner no other persons can do. Therefore I in a measure provide for you all; for the supplies which Dr. Coke provides for you, he could not provide were it not for me, were it not that I not only permit him to collect but also support him in so doing.

But in one point, my dear brother, I am a little afraid both the Doctor and you differ from me. I study to be little: you study to be great. I creep; you strut along. I found a school: you a college! [Cokesbury College] nay, and call it after your own names! 0 beware, do not seek to be something! Let me be nothing, and "Christ be all in all!"

One instance of this, of your greatness, has given me great concern. How can you, how dare you suffer yourself to be called Bishop? I shudder, I start at the very thought! Men may call me a knave or a fool, a rascal, a scoundrel, and I am content; but they shall never by my consent call me Bishop! For my sake, for God's sake, for Christ's sake put a full end to this! Let the Presbyterians do what they please, but let the Methodists know their calling better.

Thus, my dear Franky, I have told you all that is in my heart. And let this, when I am no more seen, bear witness how sincerely I am Your affectionate friend and brother,

John Wesley

 

[tampasteve]

The Methodist were not supposed to be a denomination to begin with. We were supposed to have been an elite group within the established denomination.

This is one of the reasons I have found myself drawn towards Anglicanism recently. Methodism wasn't really supposed to separate from that branch, and there is little in Methodism that can't be held and also be an Anglican.

 

[rockytopva]

This is one of the reasons I have found myself drawn towards Anglicanism recently. Methodism wasn't really supposed to separate from that branch, and there is little in Methodism that can't be held and also be an Anglican.

And... If this makes sense.... I would not want to read any so called "Book of Discipline" outside of the Rev. Thomas Coke and the Rev. Francis Asbury.

I bought a Bible because of the nice leather cover. In looking in the Bible and trying follow ministers in their sermon I am annoyed that this bible is basically half scripture and half commentary. Next time I buy a Bible I would want to make sure that any commentary is brief and not overshadowing the scripture.

This is my same feeling on the "Book of Discipline." If I buy a "Book of Discipline" I would want it as penned by the early leaders of the church. I would not want one with any modern day commentary.

 

[actionsub]

Hi 9Rock9,

I don't know what the statistics are of churches that have left going independent versus GMC.

There may be a decline in the number of churches leaving now that the "special disaffiliation" window closed at the end of 2023. That's as I understand it

Many of the churches that went non-denom were larger congregations and megachurches. A number of those former megachurches, including the one in my hometown near St. Louis, founded a network "we're NOT a denomination!" called The Foundry Network. Their website says in so many words, "no small churches need apply." One of the reasons the local megachurch went independent was so they could "fellowship with other like minded and like-sized churches". (they really hammered the "like-sized" part)

 

[rockytopva]

My opinion is that the old Oxford Holy Club was the best thing Christian history had to offer and that whatever we do to return to those ways are the best paths to Christian revival.

And... A church denomination has nothing to do with Christian revival. Denominational ways only result in what Paul would call a puffed up spirit.

But... We can be Methodist Holy Club sorts and have membership of whatever denomination CF declares Orthodox.

 

[Leaf473]

Many of the churches that went non-denom were larger congregations and megachurches. A number of those former megachurches, including the one in my hometown near St. Louis, founded a network "we're NOT a denomination!" called The Foundry Network. Their website says in so many words, "no small churches need apply." One of the reasons the local megachurch went independent was so they could "fellowship with other like minded and like-sized churches". (they really hammered the "like-sized" part)

Very interesting!

The Foundry Network

thefoundrynetwork.org

 

[seeking.IAM]

I think in many instances it comes down to dollars. The amount of money required by a congregation to pass on annually to a national denomination stretches many churches and feels unpalatable -- particularly if you have ever found yourself at odds with the national body. It may feel more prudent to be done with them and have more money in your pocket for operations and missions.

 

[tampasteve]

I think in many instances it comes down to dollars. The amount of money required by a congregation to pass on annually to a national denomination stretches many churches and feels unpalatable -- particularly if you have ever found yourself at odds with the national body. It may feel more prudent to be done with them and have more money in your pocket for operations and missions.

This 100%. I believe that many of the larger churches don't see a lot of value in joining a new traditional type denomination, why should they send thousands of dollars annually when they could use those revenues locally. My church is going that route with plowing the money back into children's programs and local missions.