UK government refuses to say whether proclaiming divinity of Christ is a hate crime

ThatRobGuy

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Looks for German Muslim Theocracy.

Doesn't Find one.

:)

For the folks that are claiming to be so worried about a Muslim theocracy, their warnings and concerns might seem more genuine if they, themselves, hadn't been pushing for their own theocracy since the 1980's.
 
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Liza B.

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Looks for German Muslim Theocracy.

Doesn’t find one.

No, no theocracy at the moment. A good number of the Muslim refugees are more interested in crime and taking advantage of the welfare state.
 
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HARK!

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A news site that's not a anti-Islam blog or a Christian-centric click-bait site...
You do understand that telling me what you consider to be not reliable, is not telling telling me what you do consider reliable, no mater how much you try to smear, those which you would prejudicially discount, with your anti-Christian bias. No?
 
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ThatRobGuy

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You do understand that telling me what you consider to be not reliable, is not telling telling me what you do consider reliable, no mater how much you try to smear, those which you would prejudicially discount, with your anti-Christian bias. No?

I don't have an anti-Christian bias...please quit trying to make Christians martyrs here every time someone doesn't just want to blindly accept a dubious sounding story from an obscure blog.

What I would consider reliable is an actual news source that doesn't have a pre-existing, self-labeling anti-Islam bias.

I mean, you do understand why a website called "Jihad Watch" that's penned by a known Anti-Muslim isn't a reliable source (at least without corroborating reports from other unbiased parties) right?

Failing to accept sources like "JihadWatch" and Christian blogs (that are just linking the JihadWatch story) isn't "anti-christian bias" specifically on a story pertaining to stirring up anger against Muslims. It's called good sense.

It's the same reason why I wouldn't just blindly accept a dubious sounding report about how "chicken farmers want to kill you in your sleep" from a pro-vegan blog.
 
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Larniavc

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No, no theocracy at the moment. A good number of the Muslim refugees are more interested in crime and taking advantage of the welfare state.
That well organised, disciplined and determined, co ordinated cadre of refugees?
 
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Goonie

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That well organised, disciplined and determined, co ordinated cadre of refugees?
It’s obviously an offshoot of the Palestinian world conspiracy that the Israeli UN ambassador was going on about.
 
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Larniavc

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It’s obviously an offshoot of the Palestinian world conspiracy that the Israeli UN ambassador was going on about.
You mean our Leade..... No, I’ve said too much already.
 
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All Englands Skies

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:)

For the folks that are claiming to be so worried about a Muslim theocracy, their warnings and concerns might seem more genuine if they, themselves, hadn't been pushing for their own theocracy since the 1980's.

Bit like the atheists, "secular humanists" and co's concerns about fundamental religion, the Church meddling in the state and religion (especially Christian religion) controlling peoples lives, they might seem more genuine if they themselves were not pushing for one world view, when they're the only "normal" and "rational" people and you have to agree with all their so called "tolerant" ideals or face their accusations of bigotry and their world view being forced upon all in the education system, government and workplace.

Or let me guess, as if by magic, atheists are exempt from being bias in their own views.

At least I can admit there is hypocrisy amongst Christians on some issues, which is more that can be said about atheists, secular humanists and co, where they are just 100% right all of the time, on everything.

You're first post I actually agreed with, about seeing the full picture and if a Christian, lets say, has a megaphone, blasting offensive language in peoples faces, its hard to take seriously accusations of "anti-Christian" sentiment.

But then your posts have now started to feel like any and all Christian complaints about bias, discrimination are all 100% false and wrong and just a "Christian victim mentality", thus a denial that Christians can ever get the short end of the stick in any situation.

and in a nutshell, this is where the spark of bias, discrimination etc comes from, when their is across the board gross denial that any complaints from a certain group are true, that the said group are just making it up and really its more about said groups sedition.

Its like the whole Islamic thing, I totally stand against Islam and its world view, I think its a form of bigotry on the same scale as white supremacy, that seeks for Muslims to be superior at the expense of others, whoever that does not mean I do not believe there is no such thing as anti-Muslim prejudice or that someone who identifies as "Muslim" cannot get the short end of a stick on account of being Muslim, I think when you dismiss all concerns of a particular group, its sailing in dangerous waters.

I honestly think all people can co-exist if they "live and let live", I think the teaching of Christ support this view, however I get tired of the argument that always implies its us Christians who don't do this and are the only ones guilty of not allowing others to "live freely", when in other groups, there is sections who are overbearing with their ideals and feel their world view should be allowed to trump ours, often to a far worse scale than us Christians. Sorry to be blunt, but the world views prine nowadays in my opinion for attempting to lord it over others are Secular "humanism", atheism (maybe in the USA Christians still have more clout, but here in UK and Europe, we're just the blokes in the corner) and places where Muslims have power, Islam, so it always feels a bit hypocritical when the three of these groups keep reeling off how "awful", we Christians treat others, especially in the case of Islam, where I will say Christians pale in comparison our negative treatment of muslims to the second place treatment we consistently get in Islamic nations, but often it feels as if people are trying to imply its the other way around, even though there is not even any type of solid base for that position.
 
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JGG

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Oh it's not a list. The other is that secularism is their religion, and the chief tenet is Diversity. Since Muslims are considered "Diverse", they are a Protected Class even though their beliefs violate just about every tenet of secularism there is.

What are the tenets of secularism?
 
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Liza B.

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What are the tenets of secularism?

As far as I can see:

1. You are your own God
2. Diversity is next to godliness
3. Tolerate only your own Morality; call out all others. Be as loudly virtuous about it as possible
4. All Rituals, Sacraments and Confessions are Political

I think that's a pretty good start
 
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JGG

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As far as I can see:

1. You are your own God
2. Diversity is next to godliness
3. Tolerate only your own Morality; call out all others. Be as loudly virtuous about it as possible
4. All Rituals, Sacraments and Confessions are Political

I think that's a pretty good start

This is written down somewhere, or this is what you see?
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Bit like the atheists, "secular humanists" and co's concerns about fundamental religion, the Church meddling in the state and religion (especially Christian religion) controlling peoples lives, they might seem more genuine if they themselves were not pushing for one world view, when they're the only "normal" and "rational" people and you have to agree with all their so called "tolerant" ideals or face their accusations of bigotry and their world view being forced upon all in the education system, government and workplace.

That's a strawman as there isn't one worldview coming from the atheist camp.
There is no codified doctrine of atheism
There is no dogma or rules one must follow to be an atheist

Atheism merely acknowledges a lack of belief in a god, it in now identifies the person's position on any other issue.

Or let me guess, as if by magic, atheists are exempt from being bias in their own views.

Again, there's nothing to be exempted from as "Atheist" only means that I don't believe in a god...there's no rule book I have to follow. You can have atheists that span the political spectrum, you can find atheist advocates for each of the economic system, and you can find atheist on both side of pretty much any social subject out there.

You're first post I actually agreed with, about seeing the full picture and if a Christian, lets say, has a megaphone, blasting offensive language in peoples faces, its hard to take seriously accusations of "anti-Christian" sentiment.

But then your posts have now started to feel like any and all Christian complaints about bias, discrimination are all 100% false and wrong and just a "Christian victim mentality", thus a denial that Christians can ever get the short end of the stick in any situation.

Christian complaints about bias (in first world countries) are false and Christians in westernized societies are in no way getting the short end of the stick. In fact, no group has had their way longer (and been able force their way on others for longer) than evangelicals in westernized countries.

The issue is that people conflate "not being able to boss everyone else around or treat people as second class citizens if they do something that goes against my religion" with some sort of persecution or anti-Christian "agenda".

In a nutshell, not allowing Christians to force their ways on everyone else isn't "picking on" them...it's preventing them from picking on everyone else. Many seem to have a really tough time telling the difference.

Can you provide an actual example of this?

Keeping in mind, anything to do with the following are not valid examples as they're not persecution for the reasons I listed above

-anything pertaining to Christians no longer being allowed to dictate what's taught in public science classes based on whether or not it jives with their book
-anything pertaining to Christians expecting to be allowed to violate business laws they don't like in the name of their religion
-anything pertaining to Christians no longer being allowed to dictate public policy based on their own preferences for things tied to LGBT & Women's rights
 
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Catherineanne

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Multiculturalism in the UK.

UK government refuses to say whether proclaiming divinity of Christ is a hate crime

“British Government refuses to say whether proclaiming divinity of Christ is a hate crime,” Catholic Herald, December 14, 2017:

The British government has refused to say whether telling people about the Christian faith could be a hate crime.

Lord Pearson of Rannoch, a UKIP peer, says when he raised a question on the issue on the House of Lords, the government failed to state clearly whether Christians cannot be prosecuted just for stating their beliefs.

“I said to the government ‘Will they confirm unequivocally that a Christian who says that Jesus is the only son of the one true God cannot be arrested for hate crime or any other offence, however much it may offend a Muslim or anyone of any other religion?’”

In response to the question, government whip Baroness Vere of Norbiton said: “My Lords, I am not going to comment on that last question from the noble Lord.” She added that the legal definition of “hate crime” has been the same for the past 10 years.

Speaking to Premier Christian Radio, Lord Pearson said the refusal to comment was “pretty unique” and “makes one very worried”.

He said the current definition of “hate crime”, which relies on whether the victim feels offended, was “stupid” and called for the law to be clarified.

“Certainly the stricter Muslims do feel offended by Christianity and our belief in Jesus being the only Son of the one true God,” he added.

He also said there is a double standard in how hate crime laws are applied to Christianity and Islam.

“You can say what you like about the Virgin Birth, the miracles and the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, but as soon as you say ‘come on, is Islam really the religion of peace that it claims to be’, all hell breaks loose.”…

It is clear enough; mostly this would be innocuous, but in some contexts it would be provocative and inflammatory. Even the most innocent statement can be used as a weapon, and that is what the current law allows for.

If I were to go to the nearest Synagogue, stand up and proclaim the divinity of Christ then that might well be regarded as a hate crime, and rightly so.

Freedom of religion does NOT include the freedom to force other people into accepting all and every expression I choose to make of my religion.
 
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Catherineanne

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Whelp, the writing is on the walls it seems.

As a True Englishman I for one welcome our Muslim Overlords (but to be honest my welcome placard is getting all sodden out here at the air port in the rain waiting for them to arrive- anyone have an ETA?).

You cannot be a True Englishman. I had it on my dad's own authority that he was in fact the Last of the Englishmen. Then he died, so there are none left. Apparently.
 
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Catherineanne

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This has been a go-to tactic for christians since ancient Rome. If you actually look into what early christian martyrs were executed for...almost none of them were executed for being christian. They either disrespected Roman officials or otherwise broke laws...and were punished for it. If I remember correctly, almost none of them would have been saved by renouncing their christianity.

If that seems unlikely because it's hard to understand why someone would rather die than simply acknowledge the sovereignty of the emperor (for example)...then you need to consider the views of ancient christians on martyrdom. In those days, it was considered a "free pass" into heaven where they'd gain themselves a seat of honor on the right hand of god himself. It's the ancient christian version of "40 virgins" and other such afterlife rewards for dying for your faith.

Christians in pagan Rome were executed for atheism. They refused to follow pagan religious practices because they did not believe in them; hence they were declared atheists and executed accordingly.

Strange but true.
 
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Larniavc

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You cannot be a True Englishman. I had it on my dad's own authority that he was in fact the Last of the Englishmen. Then he died, so there are none left. Apparently.
No True Englishman would ever say that.
 
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