UK government refuses to say whether proclaiming divinity of Christ is a hate crime

[Terminal_Marxicity]

Multiculturalism in the UK.

UK government refuses to say whether proclaiming divinity of Christ is a hate crime

“British Government refuses to say whether proclaiming divinity of Christ is a hate crime,” Catholic Herald, December 14, 2017:

The British government has refused to say whether telling people about the Christian faith could be a hate crime.

Lord Pearson of Rannoch, a UKIP peer, says when he raised a question on the issue on the House of Lords, the government failed to state clearly whether Christians cannot be prosecuted just for stating their beliefs.

“I said to the government ‘Will they confirm unequivocally that a Christian who says that Jesus is the only son of the one true God cannot be arrested for hate crime or any other offence, however much it may offend a Muslim or anyone of any other religion?’”

In response to the question, government whip Baroness Vere of Norbiton said: “My Lords, I am not going to comment on that last question from the noble Lord.” She added that the legal definition of “hate crime” has been the same for the past 10 years.

Speaking to Premier Christian Radio, Lord Pearson said the refusal to comment was “pretty unique” and “makes one very worried”.

He said the current definition of “hate crime”, which relies on whether the victim feels offended, was “stupid” and called for the law to be clarified.

“Certainly the stricter Muslims do feel offended by Christianity and our belief in Jesus being the only Son of the one true God,” he added.

He also said there is a double standard in how hate crime laws are applied to Christianity and Islam.

“You can say what you like about the Virgin Birth, the miracles and the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, but as soon as you say ‘come on, is Islam really the religion of peace that it claims to be’, all hell breaks loose.”…

 

[Dave-W]

Seems a bit odd since the Church of England is (at least on paper) tied to the British government.

 

[Shadow]

There is something really "off" here. Searching this on google brings up near identical articles across a number of sources, but there are no major news outlets reporting it. There is a record of the question here:
Freedom of Speech: Hate Crime - Question: 6 Dec 2017: House of Lords debates - TheyWorkForYou

Some Report show a very similar question going back to January 2016.

Bishop Accuses Ex-Ukip Leader Of Damaging Muslim-Christian Relations
House of Lords Business: 27 January 2016
My Lords, I am grateful to the...: 27 Jan 2016: House of Lords debates - TheyWorkForYou

Seems a bit odd since the Church of England is (at least on paper) tied to the British government.

There are Bishops representing the Church of England in the House of Lords where the question was asked, so this doesn't make any sense.

 

[GeorgeJ]

I guess my question would be:
"How many in the UK have been arrested and prosecuted so far for merely proclaiming the divinity of Christ"?

 

[GeorgeJ]

There are Bishops representing the Church of England in the House of Lords where the question was asked, so this doesn't make any sense.

....that's because this is "news" that's meant to incite rage and fear in those of the Christian religion.

 

[brinny]

Multiculturalism in the UK.

UK government refuses to say whether proclaiming divinity of Christ is a hate crime

“British Government refuses to say whether proclaiming divinity of Christ is a hate crime,” Catholic Herald, December 14, 2017:

The British government has refused to say whether telling people about the Christian faith could be a hate crime.

Lord Pearson of Rannoch, a UKIP peer, says when he raised a question on the issue on the House of Lords, the government failed to state clearly whether Christians cannot be prosecuted just for stating their beliefs.

“I said to the government ‘Will they confirm unequivocally that a Christian who says that Jesus is the only son of the one true God cannot be arrested for hate crime or any other offence, however much it may offend a Muslim or anyone of any other religion?’”

In response to the question, government whip Baroness Vere of Norbiton said: “My Lords, I am not going to comment on that last question from the noble Lord.” She added that the legal definition of “hate crime” has been the same for the past 10 years.

Speaking to Premier Christian Radio, Lord Pearson said the refusal to comment was “pretty unique” and “makes one very worried”.

He said the current definition of “hate crime”, which relies on whether the victim feels offended, was “stupid” and called for the law to be clarified.

“Certainly the stricter Muslims do feel offended by Christianity and our belief in Jesus being the only Son of the one true God,” he added.

He also said there is a double standard in how hate crime laws are applied to Christianity and Islam.

“You can say what you like about the Virgin Birth, the miracles and the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, but as soon as you say ‘come on, is Islam really the religion of peace that it claims to be’, all hell breaks loose.”…

God have mercy!!!

In the name of Jesus, help us!

Praying.

 

[Rick Otto]

Multiculturalism in the UK.

UK government refuses to say whether proclaiming divinity of Christ is a hate crime

“British Government refuses to say whether proclaiming divinity of Christ is a hate crime,” Catholic Herald, December 14, 2017:

The British government has refused to say whether telling people about the Christian faith could be a hate crime.

Lord Pearson of Rannoch, a UKIP peer, says when he raised a question on the issue on the House of Lords, the government failed to state clearly whether Christians cannot be prosecuted just for stating their beliefs.

“I said to the government ‘Will they confirm unequivocally that a Christian who says that Jesus is the only son of the one true God cannot be arrested for hate crime or any other offence, however much it may offend a Muslim or anyone of any other religion?’”

In response to the question, government whip Baroness Vere of Norbiton said: “My Lords, I am not going to comment on that last question from the noble Lord.” She added that the legal definition of “hate crime” has been the same for the past 10 years.

Speaking to Premier Christian Radio, Lord Pearson said the refusal to comment was “pretty unique” and “makes one very worried”.

He said the current definition of “hate crime”, which relies on whether the victim feels offended, was “stupid” and called for the law to be clarified.

“Certainly the stricter Muslims do feel offended by Christianity and our belief in Jesus being the only Son of the one true God,” he added.

He also said there is a double standard in how hate crime laws are applied to Christianity and Islam.

“You can say what you like about the Virgin Birth, the miracles and the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, but as soon as you say ‘come on, is Islam really the religion of peace that it claims to be’, all hell breaks loose.”…

I believe in freedom of speech but I wouldn't shout this in a movie theatre full of armed muslims.

 

[KCfromNC]

....that's because this is "news" that's meant to incite rage and fear in those of the Christian religion.

God have mercy!!!

In the name of Jesus, help us!

Praying.

QED?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Searching this on google brings up near identical articles across a number of sources, but there are no major news outlets reporting it.

That's not surprising...this is likely just some of what I like to call "deliberately incomplete 'there's a war on Christianity!!!' style reporting"

Anytime a Christian gets in trouble for something, these types of articles always intentionally leave out some key information, and instead, try to imply that the whole reason a person may be on the hot-seat, is simply because they're Christian.

For example, there was the one about how "Street preacher arrested for preaching the Gospel"...that one ended up being a case where he was standing in the street blocking the road and a few business entrances, and yelling at people with a megaphone.

Then there was the "Professing Christian faith ruled hate speech" one, that one ended up being a case where the person was professing their Christian faith, IN ADDITION TO, spewing a bunch of hate about other religions.

Then there was the "student punished for being Christian"...that one ended up being a case where a student, with his parents blessing, stood up and just began talking over the teacher and disrupting the class and would not cease after being asked, politely, twice to please be quiet or leave the class room and that's why he got detention.



These stories are basically all the same, either entirely made up, deliberately leave out key facts, or a combination of both.

Basically, it comes from a mentality of "times are changing, and society no longer is forced to specially cater to our religious preferences, so we need to act as if we're victims"

 

[Landon Caeli]

That's not surprising...this is likely just some of what I like to call "deliberately incomplete 'there's a war on Christianity!!!' style reporting"

Anytime a Christian gets in trouble for something, these types of articles always intentionally leave out some key information, and instead, try to imply that the whole reason a person may be on the hot-seat, is simply because they're Christian.

For example, there was the one about how "Street preacher arrested for preaching the Gospel"...that one ended up being a case where he was standing in the street blocking the road and a few business entrances, and yelling at people with a megaphone.

Then there was the "Professing Christian faith ruled hate speech" one, that one ended up being a case where the person was professing their Christian faith, IN ADDITION TO, spewing a bunch of hate about other religions.

Then there was the "student punished for being Christian"...that one ended up being a case where a student, with his parents blessing, stood up and just began talking over the teacher and disrupting the class and would not cease after being asked, politely, twice to please be quiet or leave the class room and that's why he got detention.



These stories are basically all the same, either entirely made up, deliberately leave out key facts, or a combination of both.

Basically, it comes from a mentality of "times are changing, and society no longer is forced to specially cater to our religious preferences, so we need to act as if we're victims"

Baloney, no one is claiming victimhood. This is about understanding what the law is, and the unwillingness of a government to clarify it.

 

[Landon Caeli]

....that's because this is "news" that's meant to incite rage and fear in those of the Christian religion.

No, this is news about a valid question that was ignored, intentionally, by a suppressive politician. Now it's the publics' turn to suppress those who ask questions that nobody has the guts to answer.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Baloney, no one is claiming victimhood. This is about understanding what the law is, and the unwillingness of a government to clarify it.

"No one is claiming victimhood" -- I beg to differ

Please do your research on this author (Robert Spencer)...every single one of his books has a re-occurring theme.

He basically conflates "promoting Christianity/Judaism" with "bash Islam every chance I get", and when he gets accused of hate speech for the latter, he gives his readers the impression that media is leveling the charge at him for the former.

...not to mention, as another user pointed out, there's not a single reputable source that can be found that's reporting this story. Every single one of them is either a Christian website, or an anti-Islamic blog.

 

[TerryWoodenpic]

No, this is news about a valid question that was ignored, intentionally, by a suppressive politician. Now it's the publics' turn to suppress those who ask questions that nobody has the guts to answer.

The law is clear and available for any one to read.
Clarifican of laws is the job of the courts not the Government.
The hyperthetical case of proselytising the christian faith, in a way that might be an offence or hate crime, has never been tested in the courts.
But if you proselytise in an offensive enough way, it might well be one.
We have yet to find out.
However proclaiming your faith, whatever that faith might be, was never intend to be a hate crime.
Nor has it ever been proclaimed to be one, or found to be one.

The question in the lords, was of the format" when did you stop beating your wife"
So was quite properly ignored. To the intense displeasure of the UKIP questioner. Who only asked it to make trouble.

 

[GeorgeJ]

No, this is news about a valid question that was ignored, intentionally, by a suppressive politician. Now it's the publics' turn to suppress those who ask questions that nobody has the guts to answer.

I ask again.......who has been arrested, charged, and put on trial in the UK for merely proclaiming the divinity of Christ? If no one has, then it's not a hate crime, and this is nothing but a bunch of gum-flapping and grand standing.

 

[Landon Caeli]

I ask again.......who has been arrested, charged, and put on trial in the UK for merely proclaiming the divinity of Christ? If no one has, then it's not a hate crime, and this is nothing but a bunch of gum-flapping and grand standing.

Could be it's never been attempted before. I say someone should put it to the test.

 

[USincognito]

Shocking that the only "news" outlets for this is Jihadwatch, etc. Shocking.

 

[All Englands Skies]

....that's because this is "news" that's meant to incite rage and fear in those of the Christian religion.

Ah yes, how will we deal with Christian "rage", all the finger wagging and grumbling!

hardly AK-47's and nail bombs, is it!

 

[Ana the Ist]

Multiculturalism in the UK.

UK government refuses to say whether proclaiming divinity of Christ is a hate crime

“British Government refuses to say whether proclaiming divinity of Christ is a hate crime,” Catholic Herald, December 14, 2017:

Well, to be fair, this sounds like a "gotcha" question...

If they haven't changed the law regarding what is and isn't a hate crime, and nobody has been prosecuted for professing their christian faith so far, I don't see any reason to think that's changed.

The British government has refused to say whether telling people about the Christian faith could be a hate crime.

"Telling people about the christian faith" is not the same as "proclaiming the divinity of Christ"....so as I stated above, this seems like a "gotcha" attempt.

Lord Pearson of Rannoch, a UKIP peer, says when he raised a question on the issue on the House of Lords, the government failed to state clearly whether Christians cannot be prosecuted just for stating their beliefs.

“I said to the government ‘Will they confirm unequivocally that a Christian who says that Jesus is the only son of the one true God cannot be arrested for hate crime or any other offence, however much it may offend a Muslim or anyone of any other religion?’”

In response to the question, government whip Baroness Vere of Norbiton said: “My Lords, I am not going to comment on that last question from the noble Lord.” She added that the legal definition of “hate crime” has been the same for the past 10 years.

Speaking to Premier Christian Radio, Lord Pearson said the refusal to comment was “pretty unique” and “makes one very worried”.

If we all had to stop and consider if christianity is under attack every time a christian claimed to be persecuted...we would never get anything done.

Christians need to drop the whole persecution complex. Nobody is trying to take your beliefs from you.

He said the current definition of “hate crime”, which relies on whether the victim feels offended, was “stupid” and called for the law to be clarified.

Well if he's right, and it does rely on how the "victim" feels...then yes, it is stupid.

“Certainly the stricter Muslims do feel offended by Christianity and our belief in Jesus being the only Son of the one true God,” he added.

He also said there is a double standard in how hate crime laws are applied to Christianity and Islam.

“You can say what you like about the Virgin Birth, the miracles and the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, but as soon as you say ‘come on, is Islam really the religion of peace that it claims to be’, all hell breaks loose.”…

Have people actually been arrested and charged with a hate crime for questioning if Islam is actually a religion of peace? I can't say I've ever heard of it...but if it indeed happens, then perhaps he has a point.

Personally, I don't see the worry about "being able to profess the christian faith" as valid. Generally, instances where christians are locked up for preaching in public involve some rather significant amounts of hatred and bigotry towards jews, gays, and others.

As long as you don't go around telling people they'll burn in hell for who they are or calling them abominations...you'll probably be just fine.

 

[Ana the Ist]

That's not surprising...this is likely just some of what I like to call "deliberately incomplete 'there's a war on Christianity!!!' style reporting"

Anytime a Christian gets in trouble for something, these types of articles always intentionally leave out some key information, and instead, try to imply that the whole reason a person may be on the hot-seat, is simply because they're Christian.

This has been a go-to tactic for christians since ancient Rome. If you actually look into what early christian martyrs were executed for...almost none of them were executed for being christian. They either disrespected Roman officials or otherwise broke laws...and were punished for it. If I remember correctly, almost none of them would have been saved by renouncing their christianity.

If that seems unlikely because it's hard to understand why someone would rather die than simply acknowledge the sovereignty of the emperor (for example)...then you need to consider the views of ancient christians on martyrdom. In those days, it was considered a "free pass" into heaven where they'd gain themselves a seat of honor on the right hand of god himself. It's the ancient christian version of "40 virgins" and other such afterlife rewards for dying for your faith.

 

[Larniavc]

Whelp, the writing is on the walls it seems.

As a True Englishman I for one welcome our Muslim Overlords (but to be honest my welcome placard is getting all sodden out here at the air port in the rain waiting for them to arrive- anyone have an ETA?).