UK government refuses to say whether proclaiming divinity of Christ is a hate crime

[Larniavc]

Oh yes, it is!

Pantomime time!!!

Lol.

I’m sure he was a great guy.

Merry xmas!

 

[hedrick]

Here's an interesting response to the OP: The British Government has made it crystal clear that proclaiming the divinity of Christ is not a hate crime. I think it makes a reasonable case that proclaiming Christ's divinity is not about to be a hate crime.

 

[Catherineanne]

Here's an interesting response to the OP: The British Government has made it crystal clear that proclaiming the divinity of Christ is not a hate crime. I think it makes a reasonable case that proclaiming Christ's divinity is not about to be a hate crime.

Interesting, perhaps, but the good deceased Archbishop would not be my first choice of source in such matters. His words are always accompanied by the distinct sound of axes grinding away in the background.

 

[MrSpikey]

...their world view being forced upon all in the education system, government and workplace.

That would be the UK education system that requires an act of broadly christian worship in state schools each day, the government where the head of state is also the head of the church of England and bishops automatically get seats in the House of Lords, and the workplace where discrimination on the basis of religion is outlawed?

You poor thing. I'm not sure how you put up with such persecution on a daily basis...

 

[Aryeh Jay]

That would be the UK education system that requires an act of broadly christian worship in state schools each day, the government where the head of state is also the head of the church of England and bishops automatically get seats in the House of Lords, and the workplace where discrimination on the basis of religion is outlawed?

You poor thing. I'm not sure how you put up with such persecution on a daily basis...

Is that the Country whose National Anthem’s first word is “God”?

 

[Par5]

Interesting, perhaps, but the good deceased Archbishop would not be my first choice of source in such matters. His words are always accompanied by the distinct sound of axes grinding away in the background.

It is not his words that matter in this case, it is the words of Theresa May. Here is a quote from her Shrove Tuesday speech, something she reiterated in her Easter speech.

"I also believe it is right that we should celebrate the role of Christianity in our country. We have a very strong tradition in this country of religious tolerance and freedom of speech, and our Christian heritage is something we can all be proud of. We must continue to ensure that people feel able to speak about their faith, and that absolutely includes their faith in Christ."

Happy Xmas!

 

[Catherineanne]

It is not his words that matter in this case, it is the words of Theresa May. Here is a quote from her Shrove Tuesday speech, something she reiterated in her Easter speech.

"I also believe it is right that we should celebrate the role of Christianity in our country. We have a very strong tradition in this country of religious tolerance and freedom of speech, and our Christian heritage is something we can all be proud of. We must continue to ensure that people feel able to speak about their faith, and that absolutely includes their faith in Christ."

Happy Xmas!

Why are you quoting Mrs May to me exactly?

My comment was about Cranmer's blog. That has absolutely nothing to do with anything Mrs May has to say; she is not the author. Adrian Hilton is the author.

 

[Catherineanne]

That would be the UK education system that requires an act of broadly christian worship in state schools each day, the government where the head of state is also the head of the church of England and bishops automatically get seats in the House of Lords, and the workplace where discrimination on the basis of religion is outlawed?

You poor thing. I'm not sure how you put up with such persecution on a daily basis...

Some Bishops have seats in the House of Lords but by no means all do. And there are other faith groups recognised in the Lords as well, not just Anglicans and not just Christians.

 

[MyOwnSockPuppet]

Some Bishops have seats in the House of Lords but by no means all do. And there are other faith groups recognised in the Lords as well, not just Anglicans and not just Christians.

The Archbishops of Canterbury and York, the Bishops of London, Durham and Winchester are automatically Lords Spiritual. The 21 longest serving Diocesan Bishops are entitled to sit in the Lords.

The leaders of other faiths have no right ex officio. Two of the last three Chief Rabbis have been given gongs (the current one has not as yet). Two Catholic Cardinals have been offered gongs but declined as apparently Canon Law prohibits them from holding major offices connected with any government other than the Holy See.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Ssshhh..... You know who might be listening. They'll want seats.

 

[hedrick]

Why are you quoting Mrs May to me exactly?

My comment was about Cranmer's blog. That has absolutely nothing to do with anything Mrs May has to say; she is not the author. Adrian Hilton is the author.

But one of his primary pieces of evidence is a quotation from her.

 

[Catherineanne]

But one of his primary pieces of evidence is a quotation from her.

Cranmer doesn't employ evidence. He employs confirmation bias.

Here it is again; when anyone's opinion is accompanied by the gentle sound of axes grinding we are safe to disregard whatever it is they are saying, from whatever source. It is unlikely to be balanced.

 

[Catherineanne]

The Archbishops of Canterbury and York, the Bishops of London, Durham and Winchester are automatically Lords Spiritual. The 21 longest serving Diocesan Bishops are entitled to sit in the Lords.

The leaders of other faiths have no right ex officio. Two of the last three Chief Rabbis have been given gongs (the current one has not as yet). Two Catholic Cardinals have been offered gongs but declined as apparently Canon Law prohibits them from holding major offices connected with any government other than the Holy See.

Jolly good.

 

[Par5]

Why are you quoting Mrs May to me exactly?

My comment was about Cranmer's blog. That has absolutely nothing to do with anything Mrs May has to say; she is not the author. Adrian Hilton is the author.

I realise that Hilton is the author, but I got the impression, perhaps incorrectly, that you did not completely agree that the government had no intention of preventing Christians declaring their faith, hence the May quote.

 

[Catherineanne]

I realise that Hilton is the author, but I got the impression, perhaps incorrectly, that you did not completely agree that the government had no intention of preventing Christians declaring their faith, hence the May quote.

Our Government has no soul. I have no faith in them keeping their word beyond expediency, whatever the subject. When Mrs May took office she promised to protect vulnerable people. She has done absolutely nothing to keep that promise, and therefore has nothing to teach anyone about Christianity.

Meanwhile if you will look at what I actually said it was Cranmer that I took issue with; he has an axe to grind, and if it suits him he will grind it regardless of who gets in the way, including Mrs May, her cabinet and the whole house of bishops. I don't blame him for that; unlike the Government he is honest and keeps his word. But he has to be read with that in mind, and with care.

Meanwhile Christians here in the UK can declare our faith; no problem about that. What we can't do is go out of our way to cause profound and gratuitous offence to those of other faiths. So while I can proclaim Christ crucified and risen from the dead any time I happen to feel like it, it really is best if I don't walk to the nearest Mosque or Temple, stand up in the middle of a service and then do so; it is a matter of good manners. Those who do not have such good manners may well find that their behaviour is unlawful. And the reason we have this law is that we expect Moslems, Jews, Hindus etc to leave Christian services alone, on the basis that we should all treat one another as we would want to be treated.

 

[MyOwnSockPuppet]

Jolly good.

I've kinda got mixed feelings about the Lords Spiritual, I mean they do make up a sizeable chunk of the House of Lords (about 3.3%), but then again their numbers of former politicians (who have been "retired" by the electorate in their constituencies is far higher.
I can't help but feel that when the House of Lords gets reformed next, given its role (amending rather than proposing legislation, acting as oversight and a check and balance) then we really don't need Bishops en masse, and certainly fewer ex-politicians. My personal preference would be a "House of Experts", where the appointments are ex officio (so the holders of certain roles (so a smattering of bishops, the presidents of some of the learned societies, the general secretary and deputy GS of the Trades Union Congress, an equivalent number of high functionaries from the Confederation of British Industry, and so on) would be entitled to sit in the Lords, for as long as they held the role).

 

[Landon Caeli]

I've kinda got mixed feelings about the Lords Spiritual, I mean they do make up a sizeable chunk of the House of Lords (about 3.3%), but then again their numbers of former politicians (who have been "retired" by the electorate in their constituencies is far higher.
I can't help but feel that when the House of Lords gets reformed next, given its role (amending rather than proposing legislation, acting as oversight and a check and balance) then we really don't need Bishops en masse, and certainly fewer ex-politicians. My personal preference would be a "House of Experts", where the appointments are ex officio (so the holders of certain roles (so a smattering of bishops, the presidents of some of the learned societies, the general secretary and deputy GS of the Trades Union Congress, an equivalent number of high functionaries from the Confederation of British Industry, and so on) would be entitled to sit in the Lords, for as long as they held the role).

How about just appointing representatives from institutes such as the Institute for Public Policy Research, Social Market Foundation, CentreForum, and Fabian Society, and others, etc? Just cut to the chase.

...It all depends on your flavour of wisdom.

 

[JGG]

The "as far as I can see" didn't make it clear?

It is a very lovely strawman then.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

It is a very lovely strawman then.

Say, do I get the benefit of detailing Christian tenets "as I see them" and unfairly apply those to all who call themselves Christians? I'd like to do that too!

 

[JGG]

Say, do I get the benefit of detailing Christian tenets "as I see them" and unfairly apply those to all who call themselves Christians? I'd like to do that too!

It would seem only fair.