Uganda legislature passes a law making it a crime to be gay [law signed, includes death penalty for some cases]

[friend of]

Third world problems.

 

[ralliann]

The more "the West" is "progressing" toward sexual deviance and open sodomy the more the rest of the world will have to implement such laws. Without the US and EU promoting LGBTQIP+ "rights" these African countries wouldn't even talk about legislature like this one.

That could be true.

 

[Bradskii]

So are you admitting now that it is being done to teens?

Nobody has denied it! You are being asked for specific cases where there has been a problem. So we can examine it and see if we agree with you. We may well agree with you and say yes, in that specific case it should not have been done. But throwing you hands in the air and constantly complaining that it should all stop is nonsensical.

 

[Yttrium]

Ah I see. So the part of the foreskin for you is considered a body part. Are you aware that there are health benefits to it?

So when you said "It's always wrong to chop off perfectly healthy body parts.", you were wrong. Circumcision is okay. You might want to keep that in mind as the obvious exception next time.

Personally, I'm against chopping off the breasts of a minor as part of gender reassignment.

 

[Bradskii]

It's always wrong to chop off perfectly healthy body parts. Especially if you are not an adult. How in the world do you condone the removal of perfectly good breasts from kids,?

Then give us a specific example and we can examine if it was detrimental or beneficial.

 

[Bradskii]

I noticed you are neatly dodging the question I asked. Which is why do we need to do something about transwomen in women's sports? I think I know why, but since you won't answer I can't confirm or reject my thoughts. Why do we need to do something about transwomen in women's sports?

Again, don't be facetious. You are fully aware of prospective problems other why complain about it. In some cases it really doesn't matter. In some cases it does and needs to be addressed. I've already told you that. Either accept that or not.

 

[GreatLakes4Ever]

Ah I see. So the part of the foreskin for you is considered a body part. Are you aware that there are health benefits to it?

Lets list a few.

What are the benefits of circumcision?
Circumcision has several benefits. Not only does it help aspects of penis health, but it can improve hygiene. That’s because a circumcised penis is simpler to clean and wash, especially for children.

The specific health benefits of circumcision include a lower risk of:

Certain penis conditions: · These penile disorders include balanoposthitis (inflammation of the glans and foreskin), paraphimosis and phimosis, when the foreskin gets stuck out of place.
Cervical cancer for partners: Female sex partners of circumcised men are less likely to get cervical cancer.
Penile cancer: Men who had circumcisions are less likely to get cancer of the penis.
Sexually transmitted infections: Men who had circumcision have a lower risk of certain STIs, including HIV.
Urinary tract infections: UTIs are more common in uncircumcised males.

Now please list the physical benefits of removing a girls breasts because she thinks she might be a boy and the transgender activists have convinced her that she should.

So you think we should

chop off perfectly healthy body parts.

based on something that might happen. Nothing on your list is for sure, just might happen and people get talked into doing it to their infant sons by some clergy probably indoctrinating them from when they were young.

A mastectomy will reduce the risk of breast cancer.

 

[rjs330]

Nobody has denied it! You are being asked for specific cases where there has been a problem. So we can examine it and see if we agree with you. We may well agree with you and say yes, in that specific case it should not have been done. But throwing you hands in the air and constantly complaining that it should all stop is nonsensical.

What!? Of course it's been denied. Where have you been? That was Larinvecs whole deal. Maybe not you, but it sure sounded like you were.

I think now that it's been proven you are now steering away to something else. Especially after all your talk of it's only and opinion piece and you can't read the study to show it happening and all that. Now you are shifting to a separate subject.

I have no doubt that you will say that it shouldn't have been done in certain circumstances. Especially when I link to the stories and videos.

What you are missing is that it IS happening to people that it shouldn't have been done too. Why? Because transitioning is being done to every teen who goes in to be analyzed. None of them are being told no. They are all being told yes. They are given puberty blockers and hormones. They are on the trans train which has only one destination.

Please show stories of teens being denied this.

Here is one mothers story. She was transitioning her child all with the support of gender clinics and the doctors only to realize her son was not really trans and stopped it. The doctors told her she shouldn't. And her son is doing well.

There is a video of a clinic worker who was a whistle blower on what goes on there. Kids are always transitioned. Always. It's not well, in some cases they are and some cases they aren't. It's 50/50 or 60/40. No it's 100/0.

Everyone is told that you must affirm. You can't question it.

Finally, finally the debate is just beginning to happen on whether or not we should be doing this. That kids may actually need mental health help to discover the actual issues they are dealing with to make them feel this way. That trauma my ve involved, autism my be involved, PTSD, may be involved, mere life changes might be involved.

No we should not be doing this to children under any circumstances. And with all your talk you have n very actually presented a case of a teen who had to have this done.

 

[Bradskii]

What!? Of course it's been denied. Where have you been? That was Larinvecs whole deal. Maybe not you, but it sure sounded like you

I have never denied that teens are are transgendering and in some cases have chosen surgery. How could I deny it? And why would I? I keep asking for a specific example of when you think it's been done in error. I'm still waiting. There must be some. Go find one. Give us the details so we can all determine if we agree with you or not. And hey, an hour long video which seem to suggest that a mother had doubts ain't it.

All your posts have been nothing but point out that there have been problems. And...what? Nobody could possibly argue that there haven't been some so what is the purpose of constantly pointing this out. Do you want the problems to be addressed? All transitioning cancelled? Ban all surgery? What exactly do you want?

 

[rjs330]

So when you said "It's always wrong to chop off perfectly healthy body parts.", you were wrong. Circumcision is okay. You might want to keep that in mind as the obvious exception next time.

Personally, I'm against chopping off the breasts of a minor as part of gender reassignment.

I certainly wasn't thinking of the foreskin as a body part. So that would be my error in that case if it is indeed considered a body part. As I pointed out there are some very good physical health reasons to do it.

I still think that it's not even remotely the same thing. A little bit of skin compared to a complete organ? It would be like comparing cutting off an inch of skin off your belly to cutting off your leg. It's not even that cause there isn't really any health benefits for that.

Give me a break.

 

[rjs330]

I have never denied that teens are are transgendering and in some cases have chosen surgery. How could I deny it? And why would I? I keep asking for a specific example of when you think it's been done in error. I'm still waiting. There must be some. Go find one. Give us the details so we can all determine if we agree with you or not. And hey, an hour long video which seem to suggest that a mother had doubts ain't it.

All your posts have been nothing but point out that there have been problems. And...what? Nobody could possibly argue that there haven't been some so what is the purpose of constantly pointing this out. Do you want the problems to be addressed? All transitioning cancelled? Ban all surgery? What exactly do you want?

Yes the video is entirely relevant. It's a mom who is a lesbian, believed in gender ideology and fully supported transitioning of her son and was supported by the clinics. Then she realized that it was wrong. They were all wrong. And to poo poo away her story simply means you are not really interested in examining any of this. You are on the transition train. You never heard of Chloe Cole?

You know not every kid who goes through this and regrets it goes out to the media and make proclamations right? Did you really expect them to? They are the really really brave ones. Here's an article with three of them. Two use fake name because they do not want the publicity and hate that goes with it.

3 teens who thought they were trans explain why they detransitioned

What to I want? I want zero children to be transitioned. I want zero surgeries on kids.

I want kids who are hurting to receive the serious mental health assistance they need to get to the bottom of why they are hurting and feeling the way they do. I want them to receive the help they need to deal with the real mental health issues they are having.

And if they still believe they need to transition when they become adults, then so be it. If they have further struggles afterward that for them to deal with.

But it's a hard no for the kids. Yes ban the drugs, ban the surgeries, ban the schools from assisting the kids to transition without parental knowledge. Ban the schools from teaching boys they can be girls and girls that they can be boys. I've said it over a s over again. I don't know how much more clear I can get.

 

[Bradskii]

You never heard of Chloe Cole?

The girl that said that her doctor did not follow the standards of care from the World Professional Association for Transgender Health? That Chloe? Well, I support her in that she should. As from here: CPAC offers a platform for an avalanche of anti-trans attacks

Gender-affirming care can span several kinds of treatments, including puberty blockers, hormone therapy and social transitioning support. Care standards from the World Professional Association for Transgender Health and other leading medical groups do not recommend that affirming surgeries be performed on minors.

Such care is considered safe, effective and medically necessary by most medical organisations. The American Medical Association, American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry, the American Academy of Pediatrics and the American Academy of Family Physicians, among others, have established clear clinical guidelines for treating young trans people.

Those are pretty much the experts on what gender care can and cannot achieve and at what age certain procedures are applicable. Whether Cole didn't receive that level of care I don't know. And they all say that surgery is for adults only, with the following consideration (from the AAP in this case):

When applicable, eligibility is usually determined on a case-by-case basis with the adolescent and the family along with input from medical, mental health, and surgical providers. Ensuring Comprehensive Care and Support for Transgender and Gender-Diverse Children and Adolescents

And I have no problem in allowing doctors, psychiatrists, any and all other experts, parents and patients themselves making decisions on individuals on an individual basis. And in passing, genital surgery is not recommended for minors.

As with any reversable surgical intervention, they are the people who will make those decisions. Not you. In Cole's case, she had a mastectomy around the age of 16. Was that too young? I'm not an expert, so I don't know what the medical decision on that should be. But everyone agreed it was for the best. Including her. So what do you want to do? Ban all surgery until...what? 16? That's the recommendation. So it's only in exceptional cases that that would change.

From Scientific American: What the Science on Gender-Affirming Care for Transgender Kids Really Shows

New research in 17,151 people who had ever socially transitioned found that 86.9 percent persisted in their gender identity. Of the 2,242 people who reported that they reverted to living as the gender associated with the sex they were assigned at birth, just 15.9 percent said they did so because of internal factors such as questioning their experienced gender but also because of fear, mental health issues and suicide attempts. The rest reported the cause was social, economic and familial stigma and discrimination.

See that? Social and familial stigmatisation and discrimination. Gee, I wonder what group of people are causing that? But in any case, you want to ban procedures that all major medical groups support and where only 2% reverted because of doubts about their gender. Lucky for us you don't get to make medical decisions, eh?

 

[rjs330]

The girl that said that her doctor did not follow the standards of care from the World Professional Association for Transgender Health? That Chloe? Well, I support her in that she should. As from here: CPAC offers a platform for an avalanche of anti-trans attacks

Gender-affirming care can span several kinds of treatments, including puberty blockers, hormone therapy and social transitioning support. Care standards from the World Professional Association for Transgender Health and other leading medical groups do not recommend that affirming surgeries be performed on minors.

Such care is considered safe, effective and medically necessary by most medical organisations. The American Medical Association, American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry, the American Academy of Pediatrics and the American Academy of Family Physicians, among others, have established clear clinical guidelines for treating young trans people.

Those are pretty much the experts on what gender care can and cannot achieve and at what age certain procedures are applicable. Whether Cole didn't receive that level of care I don't know. And they all say that surgery is for adults only, with the following consideration (from the AAP in this case):

When applicable, eligibility is usually determined on a case-by-case basis with the adolescent and the family along with input from medical, mental health, and surgical providers. Ensuring Comprehensive Care and Support for Transgender and Gender-Diverse Children and Adolescents

And I have no problem in allowing doctors, psychiatrists, any and all other experts, parents and patients themselves making decisions on individuals on an individual basis. And in passing, genital surgery is not recommended for minors.

As with any reversable surgical intervention, they are the people who will make those decisions. Not you. In Cole's case, she had a mastectomy around the age of 16. Was that too young? I'm not an expert, so I don't know what the medical decision on that should be. But everyone agreed it was for the best. Including her. So what do you want to do? Ban all surgery until...what? 16? That's the recommendation. So it's only in exceptional cases that that would change.

From Scientific American: What the Science on Gender-Affirming Care for Transgender Kids Really Shows

New research in 17,151 people who had ever socially transitioned found that 86.9 percent persisted in their gender identity. Of the 2,242 people who reported that they reverted to living as the gender associated with the sex they were assigned at birth, just 15.9 percent said they did so because of internal factors such as questioning their experienced gender but also because of fear, mental health issues and suicide attempts. The rest reported the cause was social, economic and familial stigma and discrimination.

See that? Social and familial stigmatisation and discrimination. Gee, I wonder what group of people are causing that? But in any case, you want to ban procedures that all major medical groups support and where only 2% reverted because of doubts about their gender. Lucky for us you don't get to make medical decisions, eh?

Are you kidding me? When you go through transitioning with drugs which alter your body and mind. And you go through surgeries to further alter your body so that you no longer resemble what you once were, you think there would be a ton of people who would stop using the drugs and do what with their bodies? You can't reverse your surgeries. It would be a total mess.

This just tells me you know very little of the human psyche. They made the decision and went through with total commitment. Changed clothing, changed appearance, changed names, changed body chemistry and changed physical sexual characteristics and you think they are just going to change back? Even those that may not have had surgery? It's a little late for that now.

And with roughly 80% of kids desisting you are piling on the drugs, the social pressure to keep it up telling them how brave they are and how wonderful it is for them.

Leave them alone and 80% will stop all by themselves. The other 20% can get their drugs and surgeries when they are 18.

Think of the damage you would do to kids if you took that 80% and transitioned them. Only to discover they weren't.

And medical professionals? Aren't these the same people who used to sware that labotimizing people was the answer?

Oh yeah they all know what they are doing all right. You put an awful lot of faith in people who believe that chopping off body parts will fix someone's mind. How preposterous.

Especially with the explosion of trans identifying teen girls. Probably one of the most easily influenced groups on the planet.

 

[rjs330]

When applicable, eligibility is usually determined on a case-by-case basis with the adolescent and the family along with input from medical, mental health, and surgical providers.

Except they never say no. There is no such thing as a case guy case basis. It's always yes. Give me a case when they said no to a kid who wanted to transition.

And by the way I gave you three cases of kids. The other two wouldn't give out their identities.

The kids would be far better off getting the real help they need instead of chemically castrating them and cutting off their breasts.

 

[Bradskii]

The kids would be far better off getting the real help they need instead of chemically castrating them and cutting off their breasts.

Maybe you can take the time to upgrade your education to include a masters in psychiatry and maybe paediatrics. Maybe surgery as well. Get some time in on getting up to speed with all the necessary medical qualifications you need to make the sort of decisions that are required. I mean, you don't even accept the concept of gender. What hope is there that we would ever get constructive input from someone on problems regarding gender when that person refuses to acknowledge that the concept of gender itself doesn't exists?

 

[rjs330]

Maybe you can take the time to upgrade your education to include a masters in psychiatry and maybe paediatrics. Maybe surgery as well. Get some time in on getting up to speed with all the necessary medical qualifications you need to make the sort of decisions that are required. I mean, you don't even accept the concept of gender. What hope is there that we would ever get constructive input from someone on problems regarding gender when that person refuses to acknowledge that the concept of gender itself doesn't exists?

You mean like Money? The pedophile who had all the same qualifications and mutilated kids only to have his theories totally fail resulting in the suicide of his subjects?

Or maybe all those really smart educated doctors who thought the way to go was to lobotomize people.

Yeah the same doctors today who did this to people who have since changed their minds and now regret what they did? Cause those doctors are never wrong right?

Or maybe all the really really smart doctors with all the degrees that misdiagnose people all the time?

Or those super smart doctors who say yes 100% of the time to kids who come in and want to transition?

All those medical professionals?

How about the ones who are now backing off this train and saying they were moving too fast and that other methods need to be used? Yeah you are putting way to much faith in a profession who has made far too many mistakes and even now is admitting they have made mistakes in this area.