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Uganda legislature passes a law making it a crime to be gay [law signed, includes death penalty for some cases]

rjs330

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Today, Christian missionaries are preaching hatred and intolerance towards gays in Uganda and other African countries. This has led to a resurgence in anti-gay legislation over the past 10-15 years, culminating in the Ugandan law that is the subject of this thread. The missionaries are Christians, not Muslims. The citizens and politicians championing the legislation are Christians, not Muslims.

I wasn't aware that the Uganda had an official religion.

They are entitled to run their country as they wish just like the Muslim Countries do. It seems that the missionaries said they shouldn't criminalize it as they did. At least that what one article said. Kind of hard to blame them for that when they said not to.

Combine that with the laws before hand as well.

Why are you so worried about this? Where is all the angst over the Muslim hatred for LGBTQ? Why so focused on Uganda? I have yet to hear you state flat out that the Muslim countries are totally wrong for what they do. Why is that?
 
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rjs330

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Fortunately these examples of excessive punishment are not a common occurrence and there are a lot of conditions that have to be met before they can be applied.
Oh they are not common. Well that good. And a lot of conditions have to be applied you say. Well I think we all agree that it does happen. So there is that. Quite barbaric don't you think?
 
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rjs330

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That is happening, right now, in Uganda, a predominantly Christian nation, but somehow, they get a mulligan because they have a larger percentage of those non-Christian people who, what? forced these poor Christian believers into this barbarity?

A mulligan? Don't think I gave anyone a mulligan. In fact I believe I said I didn't agree with it. So can't quite say I gave them a mulligan. So far you haven't taken a stance against this, well except in Uganda's case. When you have a strong a stance against the Muslims then I think we can agree that you are consistent like I am.

That's why I brought the Islamic thing up in the first place. It's Islamic countries today that have been doing this and for quite a while. What Uganda did sound more like Islam than Christianity today. Then it was you guys that decided to contradict me and bring up stuff that happened centuries ago.

So yes this sounds more like Islam today than Christianity today. Cause if you want to go back centuries I suppose we could do that with Islam as well showing the barbarity.

But I don't see you doing that. How about we stay consistent?
 
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Pommer

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A mulligan? Don't think I gave anyone a mulligan. In fact I believe I said I didn't agree with it. So can't quite say I gave them a mulligan. So far you haven't taken a stance against this, well except in Uganda's case. When you have a strong a stance against the Muslims then I think we can agree that you are consistent like I am.

That's why I brought the Islamic thing up in the first place. It's Islamic countries today that have been doing this and for quite a while. What Uganda did sound more like Islam than Christianity today. Then it was you guys that decided to contradict me and bring up stuff that happened centuries ago.

So yes this sounds more like Islam today than Christianity today. Cause if you want to go back centuries I suppose we could do that with Islam as well showing the barbarity.

But I don't see you doing that. How about we stay consistent?
You’ve been consistent in trying to rope Islamists into being behind this draconian law in a country that is 84% Christian and could not have passed without significant support of the overwhelmingly dominant religion in the nation.
 
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Larniavc

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Uganda imposes death penalty for ‘aggravated homosexuality’


Uganda’s president signed into law a wide-ranging anti-LGBTQ bill on Monday that imposes life imprisonment for same-sex activity and the death penalty in some cases, signaling an intensification of the east African nation’s crackdown on LGBTQ+ people despite widespread international condemnation of the law.

The Anti-Homosexuality Act 2023 punishes those found guilty of “aggravated homosexuality” with death, a category broadly defined by legislators to include offenses that range from having gay sex with a minor to seducing someone through “misrepresentation” or “undue influence.”

The new law also imposes life imprisonment as punishment for anyone found to have performed a sexual act with a person of the same gender, and up to seven years in prison for “an attempt to commit the offense of homosexuality.”

Uganda’s parliament originally passed the bill in March [i.e. the OP] but it was returned to legislators by a presidential veto. The final bill, approved by Museveni, remains largely the same but no longer includes a requirement for people to report homosexual activity or criminalizes the mere identifying as LGBTQ+.

My money is on a lot of the Ugandan parliamentarians being inhabitants of Narnia.
 
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Larniavc

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So yes this sounds more like Islam today than Christianity today.
It might sound like an Islamic thing but the reality of this situation is that it is being done by Christians to Christians. In Uganda. Today.
 
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Landon Caeli

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That is happening, right now, in Uganda, a predominantly Christian nation, but somehow, they get a mulligan because they have a larger percentage of those non-Christian people who, what? forced these poor Christian believers into this barbarity?
Also in Uganda, 41% of people live in poverty, and almost half of Uganda’s population is under the age of 15.


...So it could be that the people have extremely low IQ's, and that they are all like children. I remember what It was like when I was in 7th grade.
 
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Landon Caeli

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It might sound like an Islamic thing but the reality of this situation is that it is being done by Christians to Christians. In Uganda. Today.
The youth are always the most extreme, and most dangerous, in every society. They *are* the radicals.

In Uganda, half the population is under 15.
 
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Nithavela

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GreatLakes4Ever

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You wanted to lock away all the gays when you were in 7th grade?

I did but I was indoctrinated from birth by a Christian family and a Christian elementary school to see them as an abomination.
 
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Landon Caeli

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You wanted to lock away all the gays when you were in 7th grade?
No, but all my peers seemed like idiots when I was in 7th grade.

...I would have just followed the crowd blindly. There would be no wisdom in anything we decided.
 
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Nithavela

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No, but all my peers seemed like idiots when I was in 7th grade.

...I would have just followed the crowd blindly. There would be no wisdom in anything we decided.
Good that those young, poor Ugandans have american evangelicals to guide them in their lawmaking processes.
 
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dzheremi

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What is realistically accomplished by such a thing? More imprisonment or death, I suppose. Protecting your religious and cultural values is a tough thing to do, and we're not doing it well enough in the west these days by my estimation, but God help me if I should ever start endorsing using the state as a cudgel against those who live in ways that I don't agree with. That's never been the way in my communion, even in the most obvious case of Orthodox Ethiopia, where (for instance) Roman Catholic missionaries were banned for some two centuries by Emperor Fasilides, who sought to reestablish the Orthodox Church as the Church of the empire after his predecessor Susenyos' disastrous attempt to force Catholicism upon the people, who by and large did not want it. The difference being that those who had converted to Catholicism and did not wish to return to Orthodoxy were not imprisoned, executed, or forced to return against their will. It's a different situation, to be sure, but I hope the point is clear: you cannot force someone to live in a manner other than how they wish by threat of law. Or, rather, plenty of people will go along to get along in such situations (see, e.g., non-Muslims in the MENA region), but this makes a mockery of the religious values and culture you are ostensibly trying to protect by legislating such things in the first place. This is why, for instance, in Muslim countries that enforce Ramadan fasting by law, there are all kinds of weird unintended consequences that seem like the opposite of what the pious would want (e.g., weight gain, food waste, etc.).
 
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Larniavc

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In Uganda, half the population is under 15.
Not the one’s running the country. Or the Christian missionaries pushing the Christian agenda.

They are older than 15.
 
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Landon Caeli

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Not the one’s running the country. Or the Christian missionaries pushing the Christian agenda.

They are older than 15.
I think it's both... 30-somethings who are fundamentalists.
 
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RocksInMyHead

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I wasn't aware that the Uganda had an official religion.
Did I say that? No. I said that the vast majority (again, 84%) of Ugandans identify as Christian and that they're using Christianity to justify the harsh anti-gay legislation that they've been passing.
They are entitled to run their country as they wish just like the Muslim Countries do.
And we're entitled to comment on it. We're also entitled to attempt to steer our Christian brothers - both the native Ugandans and the American missionaries ministering to them - towards a more Christ-like path. That is part of our mandate as brothers in Christ.
It seems that the missionaries said they shouldn't criminalize it as they did. At least that what one article said. Kind of hard to blame them for that when they said not to.
The same missionary also said that this bill was the lesser of two evils (the greater evil being allowing the spread of the "homosexual agenda," which, based on his diatribes on the subject, appears to be nothing more than just gay people allowing themselves to be visible), so I somewhat doubt his sincerity.
Why are you so worried about this? Where is all the angst over the Muslim hatred for LGBTQ? Why so focused on Uganda? I have yet to hear you state flat out that the Muslim countries are totally wrong for what they do. Why is that?
We're discussing this because I'm a Christian, you're a Christian, this is tied to Christianity, and we're on Christian Forums. I see Christians using a missionary platform to preach a message of hate, which is wrong and damages the public perception of Christianity. And I see Christians here on these forums espousing similar beliefs. That needs correcting.

Muslim countries are also wrong in their treatment of the LGBT community, but this is not muslimforums.com, so there's not much point in discussing it here.
 
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hedrick

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I thought we were talking about burning people at the stake and torturing them and doing things people did in the dark ages. My bad. I don't think that's in the Kansas law is it? I don't know I didn't read the penalties. Maybe they get burn d at the stake in Kansas or Steiner to death or thrown off a building.

Kansas Sodomy law was written and passed in 2017? I'd have to see that. Wetent sodomy laws struck down a while ago? There are still sodomy laws on the books in quite few states. Just cause they haven't gotten around to repealing them. Just like some other laws in the books that are unenforceable. I mean even Minnesota has one and they are bastions or religious ferver right?

Legislators dont spend a lot of time releasing outdated laws that are unenforceable choosing to spend their time crafting new laws, working in spending bills etc.

I think the Islamic principality of Minnesota, Maryland and Massachusetts need a good look.
The link is to an official Kansas web page. I doubt that the legislature is lying about their laws. However I don’t think it’s clear that it was passed in 2017. Rather it’s part of the laws in 2017. However according to this someone was charged under it in 2013. Bill to Strike Unconstitutional Language from Kansas Criminal Sodomy Law Stalled in Committee
 
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hedrick

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What is realistically accomplished by such a thing? More imprisonment or death, I suppose. Protecting your religious and cultural values is a tough thing to do, and we're not doing it well enough in the west these days by my estimation, but God help me if I should ever start endorsing using the state as a cudgel against those who live in ways that I don't agree with. That's never been the way in my communion, even in the most obvious case of Orthodox Ethiopia, where (for instance) Roman Catholic missionaries were banned for some two centuries by Emperor Fasilides, who sought to reestablish the Orthodox Church as the Church of the empire after his predecessor Susenyos' disastrous attempt to force Catholicism upon the people, who by and large did not want it. The difference being that those who had converted to Catholicism and did not wish to return to Orthodoxy were not imprisoned, executed, or forced to return against their will. It's a different situation, to be sure, but I hope the point is clear: you cannot force someone to live in a manner other than how they wish by threat of law. Or, rather, plenty of people will go along to get along in such situations (see, e.g., non-Muslims in the MENA region), but this makes a mockery of the religious values and culture you are ostensibly trying to protect by legislating such things in the first place. This is why, for instance, in Muslim countries that enforce Ramadan fasting by law, there are all kinds of weird unintended consequences that seem like the opposite of what the pious would want (e.g., weight gain, food waste, etc.).
What is accomplished is to drive it underground. When all gays are in the closet it’s easier to get people to believe in negative stereotypes about them.
 
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rjs330

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A mulligan? Don't think I gave anyone a mulligan. In fact I believe I said I didn't agree with it. So can't quite say I gave them a mulligan. So far you haven't taken a stance against this, well except in Uganda's case. When you have a strong a stance against the Muslims then I think we can agree that you are consistent like I am.

You’ve been consistent in trying to rope Islamists into being behind this draconian law in a country that is 84% Christian and could not have passed without significant support of the overwhelmingly dominant religion in the nation.
C'mon man. I think I only said it sounds more Islamic than Christian. And it is in my opinion. I didn't claim Islamist went in and did this.

At least you are consistent about being inconsistent. Be all upset over Uganda, but refuse to come out and condemn Islamic countries who do the same and worse.

Are you aware that there are 67 countries that outlaw same sex relations? There are some that outlaw men dressing as women-transgender. When you are consistent about Islamic countries as you are with Uganda then we can take you seriously. Because I am. I've said it plainly. Why haven't you?
 
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rjs330

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It might sound like an Islamic thing but the reality of this situation is that it is being done by Christians to Christians. In Uganda. Today.
Yes and islamics have been doing this to Islamics for centuries and are STILL DOING IT TODAY. Why haven't you said anything about that?
 
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