Uganda legislature passes a law making it a crime to be gay [law signed, includes death penalty for some cases]

[rjs330]

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The article obviously was extremely biased. It has all the hallmarks of it and the rhetoric. I read the whole thing. And if I had to judge the site based on the article I would have come away with this is a far left pro LGBTQ activist site.

Its the first time I've been on the site and the first article I read from the site. That was my first introduction and my first impression.

So while the site as a whole may not be leftist and have a pro light bias, the article sure did.

 

[rjs330]

Some more reporting on the subject:

Exclusive: US Christian Right pours more than $50m into Africa

Conservative groups increase their spending and activity in what critics call an ‘opportunistic use of Africans’ for US-style ‘culture wars’

www.opendemocracy.net

How Uganda was seduced by anti-gay conservative evangelicals

Critics of the country’s homophobic law blame the views of fundamentalist US Christians

www.independent.co.uk

Frank Mugisha: 'Homophobia is not African. It's imported'

Uganda is set to become the world's least gay-friendly country. Its leading activist explains who is to blame. Sarah Morrison meets Frank Mugisha

www.independent.co.uk

https://assets2.hrc.org/files/assets/resources/Scott_Lively_Report.pdf

Yup all biased articles. You note Uganda wasn't friendly to gays before? You note that Lively specifically stated he wasn't for jailing gays? His suggestions were ignored?

We know there is a world wide lgbtq agenda. Just take a look at transgenderism. They prayed that prop 8 would pass. So did most Christians.

No this whole thing is ridiculous. I'm not buying what they are selling.

 

[rjs330]

Protestants weren't any better than Catholics in that respect. See Oliver Cromwell in England as well as the Salem witch trials for a couple examples.

The death penalty part, yes. Specifically for "aggravated homosexuality", which is somewhat loosely defined. However, the law also includes life imprisonment for anyone convicted of performing a sexual act with someone of the same gender and 7 years for "attempted homosexuality".

I told you when things started to change. It never happens over night. As people learn and grow and begin to read and study for themselves they change. Just as with ANY group you will find wolves in sheeps clothing and false teachers leading people astray. And if you study the Bible you know that because we are warned about them.

So I can easily reject them as false teachers. Going back to Cromwell who grew up in the old ways when people were still learning?

It's the same ole tactic of attacking white people today because the world had slavery way back when.

 

[Nithavela]

Yup all biased articles. You note Uganda wasn't friendly to gays before? You note that Lively specifically stated he wasn't for jailing gays? His suggestions were ignored?

We know there is a world wide lgbtq agenda. Just take a look at transgenderism. They prayed that prop 8 would pass. So did most Christians.

No this whole thing is ridiculous. I'm not buying what they are selling.

Seems like everything you don't agree with is "biased".

 

[rjs330]

The death penalty was once the punishment for homosexuality in English Common Law where it remained a capital offence until 1861. The death penalty for homosexuality was also found in the law of many US colonies. I'm pretty certain this wasn't due to Islamic influence.

This article traces the legislative history ofstatutes prescribing the death penalty for sodomy in 17th-century New England and in the other American colonies.

Open discrimination against gays and lesbians has been evident in the Palmetto State almost from its founding. When the colonial government adopted English Common Law in 1712, it prohibited sodomy, saying “That if any man lieth with mankind as he lieth with a woman, they both shall suffer death.” The General Assembly refined the statute in 1814, writing, “[The] detestable and abominable vice of buggery [sodomy] . . . be from henceforth adjudged felony . . . and that the offender’s being hereof convicted by verdict, confession, or outlawry [unlawful flight to avoid prosecution], shall suffer such pains of death and losses and penalties of their goods.”

South Carolina, in 1869, was the last state to remove capital punishment for sodomy.


Here are a few.

Are any of those people trying to pass laws at this point? I can't recall the last time anyone attempted to pass a law making homosexuality illegal. You may still believe there should be one but that doesn't mean anyone is actually doing it.

I know there are those, Christian and non-Christian who would like a law like that passed. But most believers don't believe it's our job to punish unbelievers for their sin. That's God's job not ours. Those that do don't know their Bibles very well.

In my earlier letter I wrote you not to associate with people who engage in sexual immorality.I didn’t mean the sexually immoral people outside your community, or the greedy, or the thieves or the idol-worshippers — for then you would have to leave the world altogether!No, what I wrote you was not to associate with anyone who is supposedly a brother but who also engages in sexual immorality, is greedy, worships idols, is abusive, gets drunk or steals. With such a person you shouldn’t even eat!For what business is it of mine to judge outsiders? Isn’t it those who are part of the community that you should be judging?God will judge those who are outside. Just expel the evildoer from among yourselves. - 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 - Complete Jewish Bible

Paul is making it clear that PUNISHING unbelievers is God's job not ours. So calling for the punishment of sinful people is not our place. Jesus said the unbeliever is condemned already. There are tons of scripture that tell us Christ will be the final judge and will mete out God's justice.

Christians only have a right to mete out discipline to other Christians.

I've said many times that singling out a particular sin such as homosexuality for secular punishment is wrong. I don't hear believers calling for jail time for liars or adulterers. Those that are calling for secular punishment for certain moral sins are not following scripture. Nowhere in the Romans passage does it state that believers should be advocating for their physical death. If you read the entire book of Romans and Paul's reaching on grace in it and how the wages of sin is death it is clear as a bell what he is talking about. And it's not seeking the death penalty for homosexuals.

 

[rjs330]

Were those governments Islamic governments? I don't think so.

Centuries later, Connecticut expunges crimes of accused witches​

On May 26, 1647, Alice “Alse” Young was ordered to Hartford, Conn., to be hanged. Young, a botanist, was accused of using witchcraft to start a pandemic that resulted in children’s deaths in nearby Windsor.

Young, who was roughly 32 years old, was the first of at least 11 people put to death for witchcraft in Connecticut.

In the 16th and 17th centuries, many people believed that witchcraft was the cause of some unexpected deaths and illnesses. It was a crime punishable by death in many states and countries.

Yup backwards people who still hasn't gotten past the old ways yet. But it came as Christians few and learned and read more and studied more scriptures for themselves.

It's ISLAMIC countries today who are primarily the barbaric punishers of homosexuals and other crimes. I recall a horrific video of a young boy punished by having his arm crushed by a truck for stealing.

But it's getting very old for all you leftists pointing out stuff centuries ago when the world was quite different. As if we all. Still do the same things today. Like no progress was made. You make it sound like we still live in the 16th century.

When people in general still couldn't read. The literacy rates were very low. In Britain and France only about 30-40% of men could read.

That's not today. Hang onto the past if you like but we have moved on.

 

[Desk trauma]

Yup backwards people who still hasn't gotten past the old ways yet. But it came as Christians few and learned and read more and studied more scriptures for themselves.

It's ISLAMIC countries today who are primarily the barbaric punishers of homosexuals and other crimes. I recall a horrific video of a young boy punished by having his arm crushed by a truck for stealing.

But it's getting very old for all you leftists pointing out stuff centuries ago when the world was quite different. As if we all. Still do the same things today. Like no progress was made. You make it sound like we still live in the 16th century.

When people in general still couldn't read. The literacy rates were very low. In Britain and France only about 30-40% of men could read.

That's not today. Hang onto the past if you like but we have moved on.

Yes, after fighting tooth and nail against it Christians clearly deserve credit for advancing gay rights.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Yup all biased articles. You note Uganda wasn't friendly to gays before?

According to Ugandans, while anti-gay laws were still on the books, they were not enforced. So I would call it more "indifference" than "unfriendliness".

You note that Lively specifically stated he wasn't for jailing gays? His suggestions were ignored?

As I said, missionaries should practice responsible preaching. He went around the country telling audiences about the "homosexual agenda" and how gays were evil and trying to destroy Ugandan society. You can't spread that sort of teaching and not expect backlash against the people you're spreading hate about. Backtracking after the fact is meaningless.

We know there is a world wide lgbtq agenda. Just take a look at transgenderism.

Only in your head.

 

[essentialsaltes]

According to Ugandans, while anti-gay laws were still on the books, they were not enforced.

Sort of like the Islamic principalities of Texas and Kansas and other states where anti same-sex sodomy laws are on the books, but unenforceable due to SCOTUS [for now].

It's true that the Kansas law was written in that long ago world of [checks notes] 2017, before Christians learned to read their Bibles for themselves.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

It's ISLAMIC countries today who are primarily the barbaric punishers of homosexuals and other crimes.

And yet the vast majority of Ugandans identify as Christians and justify their treatment of homosexuals with the tenets of Christianity.

I'm not saying that Christianity itself is the problem here - just the specific brand(s) of Christianity that certain missionary groups preach.

 

[JosephZ]

Are any of those people trying to pass laws at this point?

I was just pointing out the death penalty in English Law in the past wasn't due to Islamic influence since you are so hung up on blaming Islam for a predominantly Christian country like Uganda passing such a law today.

I can't recall the last time anyone attempted to pass a law making homosexuality illegal. You may still believe there should be one but that doesn't mean anyone is actually doing it.

I don't think there should be any laws against homosexuals or homosexual behavior.

I recall a horrific video of a young boy punished by having his arm crushed by a truck for stealing.

Looks like that was a hoax.

Islamic Justice — Boy Punished for Stealing Bread​

Photographs document a roadside stunt, not a Muslim boy having his arm crushed under a truck as a punishment for stealing bread.​

This a common act, variations of which are performed by many magicians and accomplished through a variety of means, with no lasting harm done. That the subject is a small boy who grimaces his way through the stunt is all part of the act, intended to elicit sympathy and extra cash from onlookers. (Despite his contorted facial expressions, the boy is not seriously or permanently injured by the process.)

Islamic Justice — Boy Punished for Stealing Bread

Photographs document a roadside stunt, not a Muslim boy having his arm crushed under a truck as a punishment for stealing bread.

www.snopes.com

 

[rjs330]

I was just pointing out the death penalty in English Law in the past wasn't due to Islamic influence since you are so hung up on blaming Islam for a predominantly Christian country like Uganda passing such a law today.


I don't think there should be any laws against homosexuals or homosexual behavior.


Looks like that was a hoax.

Islamic Justice — Boy Punished for Stealing Bread​

Photographs document a roadside stunt, not a Muslim boy having his arm crushed under a truck as a punishment for stealing bread.​

This a common act, variations of which are performed by many magicians and accomplished through a variety of means, with no lasting harm done. That the subject is a small boy who grimaces his way through the stunt is all part of the act, intended to elicit sympathy and extra cash from onlookers. (Despite his contorted facial expressions, the boy is not seriously or permanently injured by the process.)

Islamic Justice — Boy Punished for Stealing Bread

Photographs document a roadside stunt, not a Muslim boy having his arm crushed under a truck as a punishment for stealing bread.

www.snopes.com

Okay thanks for the info on that one. The article does state that boys ag d 15 can get their hands chopped off. So let's not forget the barbarity of Islam. Things that are happening TODAY not centuries ago. Which includes the killing of homosexuals. Cutting off people's limbs and stoning.

So maybe that photo was a trick but the other barbarity isn't.

 

[rjs330]

Sort of like the Islamic principalities of Texas and Kansas and other states where anti same-sex sodomy laws are on the books, but unenforceable due to SCOTUS [for now].

It's true that the Kansas law was written in that long ago world of [checks notes] 2017, before Christians learned to read their Bibles for themselves.

I thought we were talking about burning people at the stake and torturing them and doing things people did in the dark ages. My bad. I don't think that's in the Kansas law is it? I don't know I didn't read the penalties. Maybe they get burn d at the stake in Kansas or Steiner to death or thrown off a building.

Kansas Sodomy law was written and passed in 2017? I'd have to see that. Wetent sodomy laws struck down a while ago? There are still sodomy laws on the books in quite few states. Just cause they haven't gotten around to repealing them. Just like some other laws in the books that are unenforceable. I mean even Minnesota has one and they are bastions or religious ferver right?

Legislators dont spend a lot of time releasing outdated laws that are unenforceable choosing to spend their time crafting new laws, working in spending bills etc.

I think the Islamic principality of Minnesota, Maryland and Massachusetts need a good look.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

I thought we were talking about burning people at the stake and torturing them and doing things people did in the dark ages. My bad. I don't think that's in the Kansas law is it? I don't know I didn't read the penalties. Maybe they get burn d at the stake in Kansas or Steiner to death or thrown off a building.

We're talking about laws criminalizing homosexuality. You're the one who decided to fixate on the death penalty aspect.

 

[rjs330]

We're talking about laws criminalizing homosexuality. You're the one who decided to fixate on the death penalty aspect.

No I wasn't. It was your team that decided to dredge up what happened centuries ago.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

No I wasn't. It was your team that decided to dredge up what happened centuries ago.

This whole chain of discussion started with post #84 and your attempts to pin this on Islam. Bringing up past Christian behaviors was just to point out that killing gay people isn't limited to Muslims. And criminalizing homosexuality is definitely not limited to Muslims.

 

[rjs330]

This whole chain of discussion started with post #84 and your attempts to pin this on Islam. Bringing up past Christian behaviors was just to point out that killing gay people isn't limited to Muslims. And criminalizing homosexuality is definitely not limited to Muslims.

So you guys did bring it up. And the reference I made was Islam TODAY, not what happened centuries ago in the Dark Ages and other governments afterward.

We are talking TODAY. Please catch up.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

We are talking TODAY. Please catch up.

Today, Christian missionaries are preaching hatred and intolerance towards gays in Uganda and other African countries. This has led to a resurgence in anti-gay legislation over the past 10-15 years, culminating in the Ugandan law that is the subject of this thread. The missionaries are Christians, not Muslims. The citizens and politicians championing the legislation are Christians, not Muslims.

 

[JosephZ]

Which includes the killing of homosexuals. Cutting off people's limbs and stoning.

Fortunately these examples of excessive punishment are not a common occurrence and there are a lot of conditions that have to be met before they can be applied.

 

[Pommer]

No I wasn't. It was your team that decided to dredge up what happened centuries ago.

That is happening, right now, in Uganda, a predominantly Christian nation, but somehow, they get a mulligan because they have a larger percentage of those non-Christian people who, what? forced these poor Christian believers into this barbarity?