U of T profs alarmed by Jordan Peterson's plan to target classes he calls 'indoctrination cults'

*Starlight*

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I didn't see the word "commonly" anywhere -- probably because you added it to promote your own ideology. As a man myself, I can honestly say that if I'm "staring" at a woman, my interests are more often than not lecherous. I see from your profile that you, too, are a man -- I happen to have a few friends of the homosexual persuasion who would volunteer (as a thought experiment)to stare at you (or by proxy, a recent photo of you, if you would kindly post one) and we can compare the responses from both them and yourself.

I added "commonly" to make my interpretation actually more charitable. The source material suggests that the only reason why a man might stare at a woman is because he wants to claim social dominance. The statement is "when men stare at women, they are claiming social dominance and defining women as sexual objects". Not "they might be claiming social dominance". It seems rather clear cut, enough that me adding "commonly" might have been even too charitable.

Unfortunately, I don't really want to post my photos here, but I'm not sure how it would prove anything. How do you even claim social dominance over another person by staring at their photo on the internet? I know that personally I've never stared at anyone that way even in real life.
 
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Ana the Ist

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The irony is that Peterson's own field has been pilloried by various mindsets. Some have decried psychology as corrupt, as indoctrination, or belittled it as ultra-liberal touchy-feely, anti-religious, yada, yada, yada. When I told my brother about having been invited to present research at the APA Conference in DC in August, he and his friends (all of whom were STEM majors) sort of went like o_O. One friend said he hoped that didn't mean I was planning on declaring as a psych major because it's one of the "fuzziest of the fuzzies", and the others were basically in agreement. My brother did enthusiastically congratulate me, after I told him that no, I'm not switching to Psychology.

It really depends on which field of psychology one studies. Neuro-psychology is very much rooted in biology and really just dips into speculation.
 
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pat34lee

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In the article he says English Lit is corrupt. So classes on Shakespeare, Milton, Dryden, Keats, Dickens, and T.S. Eliot are post-modern, neo-Marxist indoctrination cults?

What makes you sure they read those authors in college now?
What if they consider "Harry Potter" to be literature?
 
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TLK Valentine

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I added "commonly" to make my interpretation actually more charitable. The source material suggests that the only reason why a man might stare at a woman is because he wants to claim social dominance. The statement is "when men stare at women, they are claiming social dominance and defining women as sexual objects". Not "they might be claiming social dominance". It seems rather clear cut, enough that me adding "commonly" might have been even too charitable.

Well, that's certainly your opinion, but I'd be happy to discuss any of the other reasons men stare at women... Can you give an example?

Unfortunately, I don't really want to post my photos here, but I'm not sure how it would prove anything. How do you even claim social dominance over another person by staring at their photo on the internet?

Who said anything about another person? Im talking about an object.

I know that personally I've never stared at anyone that way even in real life.

Well, unless you want to discuss the various other ways you stared at someone, you'll understand if I suggest you might not exactly be the "go-to" guy for discussing this particular topic.
 
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TLK Valentine

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What makes you sure they read those authors in college now?
What if they consider "Harry Potter" to be literature?

What makes it not literature?
 
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*Starlight*

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Well, that's certainly your opinion, but I'd be happy to discuss any of the other reasons men stare at women... Can you give an example?
Men might often stare at women because they find them attractive. And, of course, women might often stare at men for exactly the same reason.

Who said anything about another person? Im talking about an object.
How can you claim social dominance over an object?
 
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TLK Valentine

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Men might often stare at women because they find them attractive.

How can you find someone attractive without speaking to them?

And, of course, women might often stare at men for exactly the same reason.

But of course -- but that's outside of the s open of the article, isn't it?

How can you claim social dominance over an object?

Post a pic, I'll pass it around my gay friends, and we'll see if it's possible.
 
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*Starlight*

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How can you find someone attractive without speaking to them?
I was talking about physical attractiveness.

But of course -- but that's outside of the s open of the article, isn't it?
Not exactly, the article said that staring is something specific to men, while in reality both men and women do it. So it's an argument that the article is wrong.

Post a pic, I'll pass it around my gay friends, and we'll see if it's possible.
I wouldn't want my pics to be passed around by random people, regardless of their gender and sexuality.
 
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TLK Valentine

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I was talking about physical attractiveness.

There are several things that make people attractive... Why focus on just one, particularly the most superficial?

Not exactly, the article said that staring is something specific to men, while in reality both men and women do it. So it's an argument that the article is wrong.

Wrong or incomplete? Perhaps you could suggest an edit to include how women sexually objectify men through staring?

I wouldn't want my pics to be passed around by random people, regardless of their gender and sexuality.

Why? All they're going to do is stare; what's wrong with that?
 
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*Starlight*

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There are several things that make people attractive... Why focus on just one, particularly the most superficial?
We're talking about reasons why a person might stare at someone for a few seconds, not why a person might marry someone.

Wrong or incomplete? Perhaps you could suggest an edit to include how women sexually objectify men through staring?
I think it's wrong, because it mentions that staring is a male-specific thing. It's not like they forgot to mention that women do it too. It specifically says "when men stare at women" instead of "when people stare at others".

Why? All they're going to do is stare; what's wrong with that?
I'd be happy if someone stared at me because they genuinely find me attractive, but passing photos around is a different thing. I value my privacy.
 
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TLK Valentine

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We're talking about reasons why a person might stare at someone for a few seconds, not why a person might marry someone.
A few seconds is staring? Amateur.


I think it's wrong, because it mentions that staring is a male-specific thing. It's not like they forgot to mention that women do it too. It specifically says "when men stare at women" instead of "when people stare at others".

And women stare at men to objectify men and establish dominance? I missed your study...


I'd be happy if someone stared at me because they genuinely find me attractive, but passing photos around is a different thing. I value my privacy.

You go out in public, don't you? Do you have a social media profile? Now you want privacy?
 
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*Starlight*

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A few seconds is staring? Amateur.
Well, I haven't had much practice :p
And women stare at men to objectify men and establish dominance? I missed your study...
Both men and women stare at people because they find them attractive to look at. Or if there's something else interesting about a person.
You go out in public, don't you? Do you have a social media profile? Now you want privacy?
Basically everyone goes out in public, and I think most people have some kind of social media profile. I just don't want people to pass photos of me around, unless it's out of genuine attraction (for example, someone looking at my profile somewhere and showing my photo to their friend saying "that guy looks really nice, doesn't he") :p
 
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jayem

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What makes you sure they read those authors in college now?
What if they consider "Harry Potter" to be literature?

If you're interested, you can go to the Univ. of Toronto web site. There will be a link to the English Dept., where you can find a list of course offerings. I'm sure these will include Shakespeare and the Elizabethans, the Romantics, the Victorians, along with (obviously) Canadian and American writers, and modern lit, too.
 
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The irony is that Peterson's own field has been pilloried by various mindsets. Some have decried psychology as corrupt, as indoctrination, or belittled it as ultra-liberal touchy-feely, anti-religious, yada, yada, yada. When I told my brother about having been invited to present research at the APA Conference in DC in August, he and his friends (all of whom were STEM majors) sort of went like o_O. One friend said he hoped that didn't mean I was planning on declaring as a psych major because it's one of the "fuzziest of the fuzzies", and the others were basically in agreement. My brother did enthusiastically congratulate me, after I told him that no, I'm not switching to Psychology.

Fuzziest of the fuzzies? Is that Cali slang or something? I haven't heard it around these parts.

Congratulations on presenting research at that conference. That's pretty dang impressive. You're an undergrad, right? What, 18, 19? Sure your bro was real proud, but it was his job to rib ya first.
 
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TLK Valentine

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Well, I haven't had much practice :p

My point exactly.

Both men and women stare at people because they find them attractive to look at. Or if there's something else interesting about a person.

You've never been leered at, have you? the "something" becomes pretty obvious.

Basically everyone goes out in public, and I think most people have some kind of social media profile. I just don't want people to pass photos of me around, unless it's out of genuine attraction (for example, someone looking at my profile somewhere and showing my photo to their friend saying "that guy looks really nice, doesn't he") :p

You're not suggesting that it would make you uncomfortable, would it? Why not, then, open yourself up to the same treatment from my gay friends? I'm sure they'd find you genuinely attractive, and would relay to me (who could then in turn relay to you) what they would happily do if given the opportunity (consent being assumed)... there's certainly nothing wrong with that, now is there?

On a semi-related note, you're probably old enough to remember the controversy about gays in the military -- I recall a lot of people arguing against it based on what might happen if they trained, bunked, showered, etc... with their heterosexual counterparts. A similar argument was made concerning openly gay athletes in professional team sports.

...what do you suppose all the panic was about?
 
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IOW, the people Peterson is targeting, and rightfully so, are unhappy about it. Good. The leftist, marxist contingent of academia has done deep harm to our society and culture. It is a crime that people go tens of thousands into debt to get degrees that aren't worth the paper they're printed on, and only come out of "Higher Learning" even more moronic than they were when they went in.
 
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