Two Wittnesses

[Inlove]

You'll need to back up a verse are need start with the first verse in Rev.11
Seek G-d when talking about this, who knows a mans heart but a mans spirit
there is something much more to it in the first two verses

 

[ImAHebrew]

Shalom Inlove,

Were you speaking with me? If you were, what exactly were you trying to say? I'm not sure I followed you. Did you understand what I wrote?

Blessings in The Name,
ImAHebrew

 

[Inlove]

No i wasn't really talking to you but to everyone. This isn't really about the two wittnesses but about Rev.11. Ending of last year G-d show this to me and it was cool stuff so i thought I would share it with you'll since its about this chapter in Revelation.

I was given a reed like a measureing rod and was told,"Go and measure the temple of G-d and the altar, and count the worshipers there. Rev.11:1
(The first two verse in this chapter is talking about worship. I was given a reed like a measureing rod. What is the only thing that we can measure are self by, Jesus. See not just are life should be measure but are worship to G-d should also be measure. And G-d is calling for a deeper worship in this verse. whats cool about this verse is how John is being called to measure its just like Ezekiel being called to preach against the Israelites cause of there rebellious nature. See we are the temple that is to be measure and the worshiper that are to be counted.)

But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. Rev.11:2
(we might be Gentiles by birth but if you are saved then you are a Jew by the covent of Christ. And when this happens there will be this people that are lost that will be leading worship, and they will trample on the holy city.)

Now in these verse G-d has show two thing. One the lost will be given the outer courts and the holy city will be trample on by them. Two that G-d is rasing up leaders of deeper worship maybe in music or maybe in the way we live are lifes. That this lost leaders want be able to get to the inner court but the worshiper G-d is raising up will be leaders to the inner courts (a deeper worship). I hope that makes sence.

 

[Rafael]

I know this doesn't completely explain, but it does make one think that the scenes we are seeing on TV may be associated to groups of people instead of individuals. Two witnesses - Christians and Jews are the only two groups of people that follow after the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Events in Israel have accelerated since the Six Day War of 1967, which I believe may have marked the end of the time of the Gentiles that Jesus mentioned, and Paul referred to as the fulness of Gentiles to come in.

2. But the court, and everything outside the Temple is not to be measured, for it is given to the Gentiles to tread under foot forty, and two months. (Three and a half years)
​

I interpret this as days = years, and the time of the Gentiles which was fulfilled after the 1967 Six Day War.

Numbers 14:34 After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise.

Ezekiel 4:5 For I have laid upon thee the years of their iniquity, according to the number of the days, three hundred and ninety days: so shalt thou bear the iniquity of the house of Israel.
6 And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.

688AD is the date the building of the Dome of the Rock started and spans 42 months = 1278.34 days. 1967AD - 1278.34 days = 688.66AD.
1967AD is the time of the fullness of Gentiles ended or when the Six Day war resulted in the first time the Jews had control of Jerusalem in 2,573 yrs.

Luke 21:21-24 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.​

 

[israelthebride]

Raphe says,
"Two witnesses - Christians and Jews are the only two groups of people that follow after the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob."

Please read this post concerning the TRUE Jews and the TRUE Christians.

http://www.christianforums.com/t78479

LOVE, RICOEL

 

[Flavius]

And there was givin me a reed like unto a rod and the angel stood saying rise,
and measure the temple of G-d and the alster,and them that worship therein.
But the court wich is without the temple leave out, and measure it not,for it is givin to the gentiles and the Holy city shall they tread underfoot forty and 2 months.



It said don't count the people in the outer court,don't measure it.


verse 3- and I will give power unto my two witnesses{Holy place,Holy of Holies} and they shall prophecy 1260 days.these are the two olive trees..

If the temple represents your walk with Hashem then the people who spiritually reside in the temple proper are the two witnesses and those without are gentiles.Like the people in Revelation who are without the Holy city and considered Gentiles because the gentile court stands outside the Temple proper.But these didn't die and the leaves of the trees were for healing the nations.

 

[blessed2]

 

[blessed2]

I think the thoery or the witnesses being 2 spacific people comes from the verse in Hebrews that say:
And as it is appointed unto men once to die...

But there were only 2 men who we know, that never died.

Elijah: was taken up in a chariot of fire.

God said He would send Elijah to prepare the way of the Messiah.

and the 2 witnesses do prepare the way for the second comming I suppose.

And Enoch: who walked with G-d and was no more upon the earth.

 

[Flavius]

Raphe says,
"Two witnesses - Christians and Jews are the only two groups of people that follow after the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob."

There are 2 kingdoms Northern and Southern.A man had 2 sons,one stayed home with Torah and one called torah a starnge thing and mingled with swine and became as a dead man.This man decided to return only to be one of his fathers slaves so that he could be called by his fathers name.

Joshuah of Ephraim son of none and Caleb a prince of Judah.

Moses sons. Gershom{stranger} , Eliezer-son of my house.

Both gentiles and jews must enter into the court of gentiles to reach the holy place. The two witnesses are those gentiles and Jews who reside in the
temple proper and know who Hashem is.

 

[Flavius]

 

[TasManOfGod]

the two witnesses are NOT TWO MEN.
however, they are TWO TYPES OF MEN(collectively)

Yes I believe this too
I have done much study on this issue (and others concerning end time events)
I believe each branch of the lampstand (menorah) represent seven covenants made with God (light shining on the world)
That means that the two witnesses actually mean 2 covenant peoples
I have come to the conclusion (by other passages) that the two covenants are the ones made with Isaac and Jacob. These are two that lay dead in Jerusalem for 3 1/2 days (or 3500 years)
I can elaborate further if any interested

 

[ShirChadash]

Yes I believe this too
I have done much study on this issue (and others concerning end time events)
I believe each branch of the lampstand (menorah) represent seven covenants made with God (light shining on the world)
That means that the two witnesses actually mean 2 covenant peoples
I have come to the conclusion (by other passages) that the two covenants are the ones made with Isaac and Jacob. These are two that lay dead in Jerusalem for 3 1/2 days (or 3500 years)
I can elaborate further if any interested

Please do, TasMan. Also, why 3 1/2 = 3500 ? That's new to me... I'd love to hear more of your views.

 

[visionary]

I have been following this interesting thread....I love the fact that more and more the study into this portion of Revelation is holding the attention of God's children. What is also so wonderful is that there is more and more light shed on this time peiod as the curtain rises. What we see before us........the calendar is telling us that we are fast approaching the end of time.....the nation, Israel, by its very existence, tells us that we are fast approaching the end of time. By the nations forming alliances, in manners that resemble prophecy we are see there has to be something a foot that the Lord wants us to understand. By the Islamic Jhad, a religious war, that will soon gulf the world into a war of strife, like it has never seen.. European nations giving in, thinking that this will apease the terrorists??? When a god goes on the war path and wants the territory of another, which in this case is where our God said is His, I believe that we will see more things happen in rapid order.

SIDE NOTE It is interesting that I heard on the radio the other day, the concern over the wailing wall crumbling....is this another event of prophecy.

The events in the sky that you mentioned were very interesting, as in signs of the times?

We have yet as you pointed out, no two witnesses, which I think one Messianic Jew (by blood) and one Gentile believer in the Messiah will indeed unit the believers while at the same time cause everything to a head. At this point we do not have a great imitation of Jesus Christ either. So we have a few more players to get on stage before the curtain opens for the grand finally.

The fact that great imitation of Jesus Christ (the one who wants the throne of God) is the executor of the two witnesses sounds about right. That should about divide the wheat from the chaff forever. Talk about a center stage event....we have an imitation of earth and we have two witnesses pointing to the true in heaven, and at the day of atonement that is where the two goats that look identical are ceremonial prophectically brought into the picture. Makes sense to me.

I believe that in order to see Revelation clearly we need to see the ceremonial feasts, Jubilee, and the events, players all on stage. I do believe we are not far from it.....Is that not the orchestra warming up???.

 

[TasManOfGod]

Just a few points
The 3 1/2 days is a "guarded " way of revealing a time frame of 3500 years based on 2Pet_ 3:8, Ps_90:4
I have spoken about this on different threads. My fundamental understanding is that ALL of Revelation reveals God's plan to "tie up all the loose ends" of ALL the covenants that He has made - I say seven in all (made with: Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David) Hence all the sevens ie an angel, lamp, assembly( aka churches), trumpet, seal, bowl etc are assigned to each one.
The plan is that God will receive each to Himself (by resurrection) -the last (new) being first and the first (Adam) last.
There is so much there that fits in perfectly particularly as far as OT is concerned (ie the 7 feasts)

 

[theseed]

Enoch is another popular opinion for one of the witnesses.

I doubt it is a literal reincarnation of two of the old prophets. God said He would send Elijah to prepare the way of the Messiah. When John the Baptist was asked "Are you Elijah?" he said "No." As far as he knew, he was John. But Jesus said John was the Elijah that was to come... So I take that to mean that the original prophecy was designating a "type" of Elijah, not actually a reincarnated Elijah coming... The same is probably true for the 2 witnesses.

Elijah and Enoch never died, so they don't have to be reincarnated.

 

[visionary]

I would not want to return to earth in its last stages of history...when the tribulations are the worse this world has even seen, and God has to shorten it or their would be no one saved, not even the elect. GOd would not sent two that have spent so much time with Him in heaven back until this place is cleaned up. Therefore I prayerfully submit that the spirit in which those two preached, will again be given unto two who will give the last call for salvation to this old world.

 

[visionary]

 

[blessed2]

If I was Enoch or Elijah



I would not want to return to earth in its last stages of history...when the tribulations are the worse this world has even seen, and God has to shorten it or their would be no one saved, not even the elect. GOd would not sent two that have spent so much time with Him in heaven back until this place is cleaned up. Therefore I prayerfully submit that the spirit in which those two preached, will again be given unto two who will give the last call for salvation to this old world.

Why not? Did he not send His own son to die as he did for us?
And wouldn't you, for the glory of G-d and for the sakes of others?
This life and all that is suffered here is temporary....heaven everlasting.

 

[visionary]

Why not... because I understand it differently....
Prophesy states as does Yeshua that it is the spirit of Elijah, like it was in John the Baptist for "the great" which is the first time and "dreadful" which is the second coming.
Is 61:1,2....read by Yeshua in Luke 4:18-19
Malachi 4:5
Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

Yeshua goes on to explain in Luke 4:24-27. and what Yeshua thinks of John, the Baptist....Matthew 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Matthew 17:12,13 And Yeshua answered and said unto them....Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist. Luke 11:14

Yeshua has answered the question regarding the Elijah of prophecy. By the same spirit, prophecy was fulfilled by a man in the first coming of Elijah for the "great" so also will it be that the "dreadful" that we have a man in the spirit of Elijah speaking to the world denouncing the gods of this world and giving the world its last chance to worship the true God of Israel. By that same token, it follows that these two witnesses have the same task before them. They have to denounce the gods of this world, and call for repentence and worship of the true God of Israel, the true God who created us all

 

[Henaynei]

then in what way will this person be recognizable as "like Eliyahu?"