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Two Questions about Orthodox view

Discussion in 'The Ancient Way - Eastern Orthodox' started by PreProtestant, Sep 27, 2020.

  1. PreProtestant

    PreProtestant New Member

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    Let me first thank you for taking the time to read my post. I am here to ask some sincere questions and hope I can get some sincere answers (please do not sugar coat). I have come to really like many aspects of the culture in Eastern Europe and the orthodox lands (Russia, Greece, etc.). It looks like a much better place to raise a family than a lot of the western nations. I am very very conservative and love that many orthodox are morally similar in their stances. This mutual respect has really made wonder if I fit in with orthodoxy. I personally do not like Catholicism but do not quite consider myself a protestant as my faith is not based on a protest against Catholicism but based on Christ. I have read a few books that seem to suggest before 1066 and the Norman invasion with William the Conqueror that the British Church was an orthodox church until William put Catholic Bishops in charge. This British Orthodox church was apparently a church that did not keep Easter in the manner of the Catholic Church but were Quartodecimans. This has interested me in Orthodoxy as well. One of the major issues I have with becoming orthodox is the devotion to Mary and saints. I hope this does not offend you, but this something I am not accustomed to. The other issue would be the icons and images. I guess ultimately I am not interested in changing orthodoxy, and I would like to accept it on its terms. Can one be orthodox and not offer prayers or devotions to Mary and saints and not part take in iconography? Thank you for your responses.
     
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  2. Platina

    Platina Active Member

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    Well, it's normal for newcomers to take it slow on such issues. No one is going to force you to kiss an icon when you start showing up to an Orthodox Church. But if you reject the theological foundations for why we do those things, then that would be a hindrance to conversion, and I think most priests would expect you to come around on such issues before they would receive you into the Church.
     
  3. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    in addition, and in my experience, usually when one realizes why we honor saints and why we venerate icons, they have no problem starting to do those things.
     
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  4. SeraphimSarov

    SeraphimSarov A prodigal

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    In a word, no. We invoke Mary and the saints at every liturgy and even every litany: at least at my parish, we sing "most holy Theotokos, save us!" It doesn't have to be a part of your private devotion, of course, but I question the Orthodoxy of anyone who does not ask the intercessions of our Mother and the saints. Also icons are a major part of our worship -- you cannot be Orthodox if you refuse to venerate the icons. I think any respectable priest would hold off on bringing you into the fold until these things become more natural for you. This isn't to pressure you -- it's something to give a lot of thought and prayer to. Some people spend years as inquirers, and there's nothing wrong with that. There is a lifetime of learning to be had within Holy Orthodoxy.

    Forgive me,
    Seraphim
     
  5. Hermit76

    Hermit76 You can call me Paisios Supporter

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    Orthodoxy really is difficult to break up into small pieces. The life of Orthodoxy really lies in its completeness. Take your time and as others have suggested look at the reason behind these teachings.
     
  6. Lukaris

    Lukaris Orthodox Christian Supporter

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    I think much our Orthodox life is intended to be lived as the Lord teaches in Matthew 6:1-18 ( alms giving, prayer, fasting). Our Sunday worship is the Divine Liturgy & confession & the Eucharist are our primary ongoing sacraments. The Nicene Creed:
    The Nicene Creed - Personal and Devotional Prayers - Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America is our theology & we need to try to live by the Lord’s commandments ( Matthew 22:36-40, Matthew 19:16-19, Romans 13:8-10, Matthew 7:12 etc. ). Our icons & incense stress the Lord’s incarnation ( nativity, preaching, cross, resurrection, & ascension etc.) aspect of our worship.
     
  7. Xenophon

    Xenophon Well-Known Member

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    I will force you, mwahahaha! (Maniacal laughter!)
     
  8. rusmeister

    rusmeister A Russified American Orthodox Chestertonian

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    What the others have said.

    Coming in is often gradual and usually not all of a sudden.

    You can't be baptized/chrismated until you're ready to accept the who;e kit and kaboodle. There is no "menu a la carte" of what we may or may not accept when it comes to established dogma (as opposed to pious beliefs, like tollhouses, which are not mandatory). Trusting that there is an Institution wiser than you or me is critical. Imagine if what you or I think were the pinnacle of Christian wisdom! That would be an incredibly low and hardly divine thing.

    Discovering that those things are actually super-mega-Biblical is the fun part...
     
  9. Goodhuman

    Goodhuman Active Member

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    I don't think you are interested in orthodoxy, probably in evangelical churches. Because we have this things and if you avoid them you avoid faith which God given us.
     
  10. Hermit76

    Hermit76 You can call me Paisios Supporter

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    Please dont
     
  11. Goodhuman

    Goodhuman Active Member

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    Deleted.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2020
  12. Anhelyna

    Anhelyna Handmaid of God CF Senior Ambassador Supporter

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    Goodhuman - everyone comes to Orthodoxy in their own good time - it's a process that cannot be hurried. It takes some people a long time to be comfortable with some aspects such as veneration of icons.

    Please do not be so quick to offer judgements.


    Please note - this was posted BEFORE Goodhuman deleted his post #11
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2020
  13. Goodhuman

    Goodhuman Active Member

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    I am not judging no one, they are free to enter every church.
     
  14. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    then you shouldn't tell someone else about his interest in Orthodoxy.
     
  15. Goodhuman

    Goodhuman Active Member

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    Giving advice is done for good reasons.
     
  16. All4Christ

    All4Christ ✙ The Handmaid of God Laura ✙ CF Senior Ambassador Supporter

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    As someone who used to be uncomfortable and disagree with veneration of Mary, the saints and icons, I get where you are coming from. I was Pentecostal, so it was a big difference. As the others mentioned, Orthodoxy is inclusive of all of that, and it isn’t a take it or leave it belief.

    That said, I encourage you to do a few things.

    1. Visit an Orthodox Church. You can do this without understanding or wanting to venerate the saints or icons. I did this for a long time before deciding to become a catechumen.
    2. Learn about the reasons for these beliefs. I was surprised once I started really researching it. Consider joining an adult education class to learn about the faith (or sit in on catechism classes, even if you are just inquiring).
    3. Pray (this should be first :))
    4. Take your time. This isn’t a sprint and isn’t a light decision.

    Prayers for you!
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2020
  17. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    that's not what was done. you didn't actually give advice.

    and giving advice can also be done for bad reasons.
     
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  18. Hermit76

    Hermit76 You can call me Paisios Supporter

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    From an older thread on another board...
    This account seems to be as much troll as anything. I don't want to redirect this thread but this is becoming an issue.

    To the OP... don't take these mis-directions to heart. As it has been suggested keep on studying and take your time at this. It took me 6 years of seeking to find Orthodoxy and it was a process that produced a great result.
     
  19. Goodhuman

    Goodhuman Active Member

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    Deleted.
     
  20. “Paisios”

    “Paisios” Sinner Supporter

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    Venerating the Theotokos and the Saints, and the use of icons was a hurdle for me at first, and one of the bigger things I overcame before converting to Orthodoxy.
    I would second the advice given by others: pray first, visit an Orthodox service and talk to the priest (expect things to be very different than Western church services and much stranger), read about Orthodoxy, and search through the St. Basil’s subforum here on Christian Forums - I think you will find many answers to your questions, which may help you decide if Orthodoxy is what you are seeking.

    St. Basil the Great's Hall

    There are also many posters here who were very helpful in helping me to understand the Orthodox faith, and eventually helped bring me from “what’s this all about and why do I not know anything about this side of Christianity?” to the point of becoming a catechumen and eventually to being baptized into the Orthodox Church almost two years ago.

    But there were many discussions here, and with he who is now my Orthodox priest, my former clergy, my father (who was a Presbyterian minister and seminary professor), many trusted laity, and lots of reading and prayer, over the course of over a year before that. It is a big decision, and one not to be hurried.
     
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