Two NYPD executed

[brewmama]

Not at all. Police acting racist is made no more racist by people talking about it.

Except that the police weren't acting racist. As Giuliani said:

"First of all, there’s no racism in this case. If this man were a white man resisting arrest at that same size, the same thing would happen. There was an African American sergeant on the scene observing, in charge of the situation, never did anything to stop it…As far as I know…she did nothing to interrupt it. To suggest that racism is involved, just because it’s a white man and a black man, and then also to talk about families worried about their children, there are a handful of police shootings of blacks. Ninety-six of the time, it’s a black child being killed by a black. If he wants to train young black men in how to avoid being killed in the city, you can talk about police. Police should never kill anybody unjustifiably. I’ve put them in jail when that happens. But you should spend 90 percent of your time talking about the way they’re actually probably going to get killed, which is by another black. To avoid that fact, I think, is racist."

 

[variant]

How can you say he wasn't a protester? He made it quite clear he was. There are protesters in many more places than NYC. And of course, you are ignoring all the other violence done by the protesters.

If you consider shooting people a form of protest akin to the people holding up signs...

I'll say it one more time and then I'm giving up. Yes, a PROTESTER committed murder, other protesters have called for it, other violence had been perpetrated against the police by protesters. NO, not EVERY SINGLE protester, but those calling for peace don't seem to be making much headway. As I have said over and over, yet you keep trying to twist it into something else.

At the same time, as I have also shown over and over, the hostility has been fed and incited by those in charge, such as Obama, Holder, and De Blasio.

You haven't shown a single thing by anyone of those people inciting hostility.

None of these people called for violence and in fact spoke out against it.

You continue over and over to blame violence on people who did not call for it.

No. Calling for violence has NOTHING to do with it. (Again) What matters is how those in power continue to feed the anger and encourage protesters with statements like how racist whites, the police, America, whoever else is over and over, without trying to defuse it.

Huh? They did plenty to try to diffuse it, like say, speak out against violence in the protest...

I posted Di Blasio calling for peace directly

You're just rambling along your own little narrative and you won't have it upset by the facts.

That has been rebutted before, but here it is again.

"Instead of just asking people to fill out a form, the Census Bureau also visits 3000 families and asks them to answer about 45 minutes worth of more detailed questions, including some version of this: Do you smoke pot?

They found black and white people admit to smoking marijuana in about the same amount. That’s it. No testing. Just talking.

They assembled their answers in a report called the National Household Survey on Drug Abuse and Health. Soon the talking heads figured black people were arrested four times more often for apparently committing the same amount of crime: Smoking dope.

And that is how the big ‘everyone commits crime in the same amount but only black people are arrested’ hoax was born.

That is it. That’s all there is. And it is not even close to being true."

Read more: Articles: Racial Fairy Tales from the NAACP

Ah yes, of course, Black people must be 4X more likely to lie to researchers about Marijuana use....

Strained credulity...

The DPA analysis also found that the rate of marijuana arrests in a certain neighborhood was determined more by race than by class. Poor neighborhoods with a majority of white residents consistently saw fewer possession arrests than wealthier neighborhoods of color.

So, I am to believe that Black people lie more about marijuana use, AND they use it more in richer neighborhoods than in poorer white neighborhoods even though the reporting is basically the same.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/nicolasmedi...arrested-for-pot-possession-in-new#.jaDq7JRrR

Black people must REALLY love both pot and very consistently fibbing about it at exactly the same rate to be on parity with white people about it.

You mean like you keep doing with Clive Bundy?
My posts on the other hand were directly applicable to either the OP or something you said.

Maybe when you address the example of racial differences in enforcement...

He exacerbated it.

Given you wear your prejudices on your sleeve I don't honestly care what you think.

 

[SuperCloud]

And that comment is why the NYPD turned their backs on him. They view his comments as throwing them all under the bus.

I didn't see anything particularly "bad" with the comments attributed to him in that link given to his son as advice.

The police do not really exist to protect people anyways. They are here to enforce the law. Like the IRS which more white American ought celebrate as the heroes protecting them. Though, I won't hold my breath on white Americans in any large numbers doing that any time soon.

The NYPD like the IRS special agents do not make the laws. They simply are hired (meaning, it's a job/career) to carry out the job they are assigned too. And like in most jobs if you're boss (police chief or whoever) feels you are under performing he or she might suspend you, demote you, or fire you. But the police--many of whom are Republicans and back by Republicans--are strongly pro-organized labor for themselves. And as comical as it is... Republicans are lovers of the police unions (probably because they view the police and police unions as militia forces keeping blacks and Latinos in check). So, given the police are usually unionized, it's incredibly hard to fire a cop.

Then you have the high crime in black and Latino neighborhoods. Admittedly, the NYPD approach of stopping and frisking has helped reduce the crime and homicide rate in NYC. And NYC used to be "off the chain" in the 1970s. Gentrification in certain neighborhoods probably helped too.

Although I'm making no enemy of the "left" on this one. Kind of due to the old maxim "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" and the whole wicked "there are no permanent friends or enemies in politics" thing which even Christians looooooooooove to play. I'd be a fool to make an enemy out of the left on this issue--even though I think the left is looking at the sociological dynamics of this thing far less than accurately. I think the sociological dynamics are not so black and white but more complex. So complex that I have no solution to offer. Between the "thugs" and the stop-and-frisk cops, the black or Latino young guy just trying to be a decent young man in the Hip Hop culture not bothering anyone, is caught between a rock and a hard spot.

The drug war plays a large roll in how the politicians use the police to interact and go after the public.

Cops are just as human as anyone else. Many white cops harbor racist feelings, as most white Americans do. So, they bring that on the job.

The NYPD has had a loooooooong reputation of being heavy handed long before this current mayor was in office. The NYPD had that reputation--towards black men in particular--even when I was a kid in the 1980s. And I believe it. Just like I believe it about the LAPD. If anything... the Midwestern Milwaukee police force is more "progressive" and more gentle on black men than the NYPD or LAPD.

 

[whatbogsends]

Right now the anti-cop argument has no valid points, unless you count "kill pigs" as a valid point.

The argument that cops aren't currently accountable for their actions, but should be is a valid argument, whether you recognize it or not. You have expressed black and white logic this entire time (and no, that was not a reference to race).

Killing cops is not an acceptable way of voicing displeasure with the system, and that action and mentality is correctly being condemned.

You complain because people are judging all cops based on the actions of a small subset of cops who abuse their power. You are doing the exact same, judging all police protesters based on the actions of a small subset of protesters who believe that violence is the answer.

You can't have it both ways. You can't on one hand say to ignore this subset of group A, because the rest of group A is good, while saying this subset of group B is bad, and therefore everyone in group B is bad.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

The argument that cops aren't currently accountable for their actions, but should be is a valid argument, whether you recognize it or not. You have expressed black and white logic this entire time (and no, that was not a reference to race).

It is a very valid argument.

It is not the argument of the anti-cop protestors.

Killing cops is not an acceptable way of voicing displeasure with the system, and that action and mentality is correctly being condemned.

It is not being condemned strongly enough when an instagram post by the killer of those two cops gets millions of likes.

You complain because people are judging all cops based on the actions of a small subset of cops who abuse their power. You are doing the exact same, judging all police protesters based on the actions of a small subset of protesters who believe that violence is the answer.

I've maintained SEVERAL TIMES NOW that I am speaking of the protestors who are specifically calling for the death of police officers. I am judging THOSE protestors.

I have pointed out that THOSE protestors are drowning out any legitimate protests.

You can't have it both ways. You can't on one hand say to ignore this subset of group A, because the rest of group A is good, while saying this subset of group B is bad, and therefore everyone in group B is bad.

Nor have I said that.

 

[Bedford]

It is not the argument of the anti-cop protestors.

The protests are against bad cops getting away with murder and other crimes.

Your description of the protests is off base.

 

[Smidlee]

The protests are against bad cops getting away with murder and other crimes.

Your description of the protests is off base.

So are they protesting against cops or people getting away with murder which involves lawyers, judges and politicians? The cops are sandwiched between corrupt citizens and corrupt government yet somehow not to become corrupted themselves.

 

[Bedford]

So are they protesting against cops or people getting away with murder which involves lawyers, judges and politicians?

poisoning the well much?

 

[Smidlee]

poisoning the well much?

I'm trying make a very serious point to get to the root of the problem.

 

[Bedford]

I'm trying make a very serious point to get to the root of the problem.

No, your point has nothing to do with the protests.

Why not carry your rant further and include military, government, and any other group where people get away with murder. Try to focus on this discussion.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

The protests are against bad cops getting away with murder and other crimes.

Your description of the protests is off base.

When there are protests with people chanting that they want dead cops, I'm fairly certain I'm describing the protest correctly.

 

[Bedford]

When there are protests with people chanting that they want dead cops, I'm fairly certain I'm describing the protest correctly.

I question if there was such a call from protesters. We already have a Fox News station who admitted doctoring audio to fit their agenda, so it is not a far stretch to think the same happened here.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

I question if there was such a call from protesters. We already have a Fox News station who admitted doctoring audio to fit their agenda, so it is not a far stretch to think the same happened here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj4ARsxrZh8

 

[Bedford]

Sounds so clear from such a distance, doesn't it? Amazing....

My comment stands.

NYC protesters chant for dead cops - YouTube

 

[whatbogsends]

No, your point has nothing to do with the protests.

Why not carry your rant further and include military, government, and any other group where people get away with murder. Try to focus on this discussion.

While i don't agree with everything Smidlee has been posting here, he's spot on in that the problem with police being "above the law" is a systemic problem, and directly reflected with lawyers, politicians, and judges being above the law in many ways as well. It may not be what the protests are about, but it's what the protests should be about. There are figures on both sides poisoning the well, and making sure the divide stays divided.

If we had a system which did not brazenly favor police officers, even in the face of overwhelming evidence which contradicts their statements, we would be taking the bad police off the streets, empowering good police to report bad police behavior, and improving the situation.

The problem isn't "cops are bad". The problem is "some cops are bad, and the system, comprised of police, lawyers, judges, and politicians, protects these bad cops, and accepts bad behavior from law enforcement officials, as well as their own".

Moreover, when anyone from those groups express anything other than complete and utter support of the system, they get attacked by their own (i.e. Mayor de Blasio). There very much seems to be the mentality "If you're not with us, you're against us." (i.e. black and white, with no allowance for grey area or room for debate).

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Sounds so clear from such a distance, doesn't it? Amazing.... My comment stands.

And will this be your reply to every video proof that is posted?? If so...then I'm not going to waste my time. I think someone could be right in front of you calling for the death of cops and you would be blind to it. Oh, wait...that already happened here didn't it?

 

[Bedford]

While i don't agree with everything Smidlee has been posting here, he's spot on in that the problem with police being "above the law" is a systemic problem, and directly reflected with lawyers, politicians, and judges being above the law in many ways as well. It may not be what the protests are about, but it's what the protests should be about. There are figures on both sides poisoning the well, and making sure the divide stays divided.

If we had a system which did not brazenly favor police officers, even in the face of overwhelming evidence which contradicts their statements, we would be taking the bad police off the streets, empowering good police to report bad police behavior, and improving the situation.

The problem isn't "cops are bad". The problem is "some cops are bad, and the system, comprised of police, lawyers, judges, and politicians, protects these bad cops, and accepts bad behavior from law enforcement officials, as well as their own".

Moreover, when anyone from those groups express anything other than complete and utter support of the system, they get attacked by their own (i.e. Mayor de Blasio). There very much seems to be the mentality "If you're not with us, you're against us." (i.e. black and white, with no allowance for grey area or room for debate).

Then I will leave the thread by saying that everything is Obama's fault, since he is in charge. When somebody is murdered, it is not only the murderers fault, but the fault of the entire system.

I guess Rudy was correct....

 

[seven2014]

Every black newspaper and web site in America is full of one fairy tale after another of white privilege, white violence, white hatred. Open season on black people, anyone?

Aren't you exaggerating here? If not, where is your empirical evidence to support?

White Privilege Isn’t a Myth…and Here’s Undeniable Proof
White Privilege Isn’t a Myth…and Here’s Undeniable Proof | Americans Against the Tea Party

White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack

As a white person, I realized I had been taught about racism as something that puts others at a disadvantage, but had been taught not to see one of its corollary aspects, white privilege, which puts me at an advantage.

I began to understand why we are just seen as oppressive, even when we don't see ourselves that way. I began to count the ways in which I enjoy unearned skin privilege and have been conditioned into oblivion about its existence.

White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack by Peggy McIntosh


EXPLAINING WHITE PRIVILEGE TO A BROKE WHITE PERSON

So when that feminist told me I had "white privilege," I told her that my white skin didn't do ------ to prevent me from experiencing poverty. Then, like any good, educated feminist would, she directed me to Peggy McIntosh's 1988 now-famous piece, "White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack."

After one reads McIntosh's powerful essay, it's impossible to deny that being born with white skin in America affords people certain unearned privileges in life that people of another skin color simple are not afforded.

Explaining White Privilege to a Broke White Person... | OCCUPY WALL STREET

Meanwhile in the real world, in places like Baltimore, black mayors tell black police departments not to arrest black people. Then they say crime is down. And in the court room, black juries are loathe to convict black defendants. They call it a Bronx jury.

You mean like they did in NYC, and Ferguson? No white was arrested, and neither white went to jail. In Ferguson, the jury was intentional given outdate instruction that allowed Wilson to walk.

Subsequent to a previous report from Lawrence O'Donnell, the Missouri Attorney General has confirmed with "Last Word" that instructions given the Michael Brown grand jury describing the police "use of force" laws was incorrect and misleading.

Missouri AG confirms Michael Brown grand jury misled by St. Louis DA

And in the case of NY, the choke hold was banned in 1993, so why did the police dept. allow them to continue using it?

The Chokehold Is Banned By NYPD, But Complaints About Its Use Persist

According to the medical examiner who performed his autopsy, Eric Garner’s death could be partially attributed to the chokehold in which he was placed by Officer Daniel Pantaleo, as well as to the pressure applied to Garner's chest. Chokeholds were banned by the New York City Police Department in 1993, although the tactic is not prohibited by New York City law -- or at least not yet (a bill has been introduced in the New York City Council that would make chokeholds illegal).

The Chokehold Is Banned By NYPD, But Complaints About Its Use Persist

We can call it black privilege.

If you juxtapose these two over the last 200 years, who do you think would have had more privileges?

The mayor of New York brags about giving his son The Talk: White racism is everywhere. White racism is permanent. White racism explains everything. He counsels his son to care for his life when dealing with what an NAACP leader calls the police: Klan members without sheets."

You forgot, his son is bi-racial. who is the most likely to be attacked by a klan member, you, or him. Did you see anything wrong when your parents did their job in warning you about certain people, communities, type of men, etc?

Are you telling me that you were told that all people are good, and will not harm you?

 

[Bedford]

And will this be your reply to every video proof that is posted?? If so...then I'm not going to waste my time. I think someone could be right in front of you calling for the death of cops and you would be blind to it. Oh, wait...that already happened here didn't it?

Sorry, I did not question the video, I question the audio.


Please learn how to read.

 

[seven2014]

Except that the police weren't acting racist. As Giuliani said:

"First of all, there’s no racism in this case. If this man were a white man resisting arrest at that same size, the same thing would happen.

You make it too easy.


http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROpUpKs3l6k&index=2&list=PL5y0uA-XbTYpIweQ4d7P1-TJdLiU9C2xu