two covenants

[Mercy74]

I think it best if you don’t add to the text or make assumptions.

I did not add anything. You added by suggesting human sacrifice. Human sacrifice is an abomination.

 

[Gup20]

I did not add anything. You added by suggesting human sacrifice. Human sacrifice is an abomination.

It was rhetorical. When you base your theology on added assumptions - such as the assumption that Abraham offered sacrifices on the altar he built - you had better expect anything... if your assumptions are proof, then they can be equally countered by someone else’s assumptions.

 

[Mercy74]

It was rhetorical. When you base your theology on added assumptions - such as the assumption that Abraham offered sacrifices on the altar he built - you had better expect anything... if your assumptions are proof, then they can be equally countered by someone else’s assumptions.

What are you talking about? Abraham offered his son on the altar is a fact, he replaced his son with a ram (another fact). You accuse me of the things you do.

 

[JLB777]

The point is he did this work before and after he believed.

I disagree.

Genesis 12:1 is where he first believed.


Now the Lord had said to Abram:
“Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.
I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”
So Abram departed as the Lord had spoken to him...
Genesis 12:1-4



JLB

 

[JLB777]

"word of faith"? Abram obeyed the word of faith? Please find this catch phrase in Scripture.

But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach):
Romans 10:8

The word by which we receive faith.

We receive faith when God speaks to us, whether directly or through a prophet or one who He sends.


By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. Hebrews 11:8



So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17



JLB

 

[Mercy74]

I disagree.

Genesis 12:1 is where he first believed.


Now the Lord had said to Abram:
“Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.
I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”
So Abram departed as the Lord had spoken to him...
Genesis 12:1-4



JLB

Genesis 12:1 doesn't say Abraham believed.

 

[Mercy74]

But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach):
Romans 10:8

The word by which we receive faith.

We receive faith when God speaks to us, whether directly or through a prophet or one who He sends.


By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. Hebrews 11:8



So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17



JLB

Does Romans 10:8 say what you say? Does
Romans 10:8 say "Abraham OBEYED the word of faith"?

 

[Mercy74]

But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach):
Romans 10:8

The word by which we receive faith.

We receive faith when God speaks to us, whether directly or through a prophet or one who He sends.


By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. Hebrews 11:8



So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17



JLB

Faith comes by "hearing" not speaking. You must have ears to hear, (Matthew 11:15) again faith comes by "hearing". Just because G-d speaks to us , doesn't necessarily mean that we have faith. Faith comes by us hearing the word of the L-rd. Let us not be hearers only fooling ourselves but let us all be doers of the word (James 1:22). Abraham believed G-d (Genesis 15:6). I am not sure you have ears to hear because you keep saying things that have never been written.

 

[JLB777]

Genesis 12:1 doesn't say Abraham believed.

If Abraham didn’t believe then he wouldn’t have obeyed.


Believe carries the idea of trust and commit to obey.


Abraham obeyed the Gospel, and foreshadowed how God would justify us through obedience to the Gospel.


And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” Galatians 3:8



Faith without the action of obedience is dead.


Abraham believed God would keep His promise to:

• I will make you a great nation;
• I will bless you
• And make your name great;
• And you shall be a blessing.
• I will bless those who bless you,
• And I will curse him who curses you;
• And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.

JLB

 

[JLB777]

Does Romans 10:8 say what you say? Does
Romans 10:8 say "Abraham OBEYED the word of faith"?

You asked where the catch phrase “word of faith” was in the Bible.


Here is where it says Abraham obeyed referring to Genesis 12.


By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. Hebrews 11:8


By faith means, God spoke to a person to do something, in which they received faith, the word of faith, and the person obeyed the word from God, By which they received faith.




JLB

 

[JLB777]

Faith comes by "hearing" not speaking. You must have ears to hear, (Matthew 11:15) again faith comes by "hearing". Just because G-d speaks to us , doesn't necessarily mean that we have faith. Faith comes by us hearing the word of the L-rd. Let us not be hearers only fooling ourselves but let us all be doers of the word (James 1:22). Abraham believed G-d (Genesis 15:6). I am not sure you have ears to hear because you keep saying things that have never been written.

It’s becoming clear you have no idea what your talking about, nor do you understand even the most elementary principles of faith.


I guess you have focused on trying to keep the law of Moses which has been abolished, rather than studying God’s word to show yourself approved.


Faith come by hearing God speak to us, whether directly or through a person who is sent by Him.


By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. Hebrews 11:7



God spoke to Noah to build an Ark.

Noah obeyed the word from God By which he received faith.


He is an heir of the righteousness of faith.



JLB

 

[Mercy74]

If Abraham didn’t believe then he wouldn’t have obeyed.


Believe carries the idea of trust and commit to obey.


Abraham obeyed the Gospel, and foreshadowed how God would justify us through obedience to the Gospel.


And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” Galatians 3:8



Faith without the action of obedience is dead.


Abraham believed God would keep His promise to:

• I will make you a great nation;
• I will bless you
• And make your name great;
• And you shall be a blessing.
• I will bless those who bless you,
• And I will curse him who curses you;
• And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.

JLB

You are conflating two different ideas. You are teaching "faith alone" without works of the law; then trying to promote "word of faith" or obedient faith which is unknowingly convoluted into your understanding. Do you not know that the "word of faith" phrase that you are quoting from Paul the Pharisee is actually part of the law of Moses that you think is abolished? Let us carefully read Romans 10:8 in context;

But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," [4] that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming:

The number "4" means Paul the Pharisee is directly referencing Deuteronomy 30:14:

No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.

Paul the Pharisee is a son of a Pharisee; he is always teaching the law of Moses even when you think he is not teaching the law of Moses. That is the "word of faith" which is the law that Moses received that is near Israel as they walked by faith in the wilderness.

 

[JLB777]

You are conflating two different ideas. You are teaching "faith alone" without works of the law;

There is no such thing as “faith alone”.


Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. James 2:17


Faith alone; Faith by itself is dead.




JLB

 

[Mercy74]

You asked where the catch phrase “word of faith” was in the Bible.


Here is where it says Abraham obeyed referring to Genesis 12.


By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. Hebrews 11:8


By faith means, God spoke to a person to do something, in which they received faith, the word of faith, and the person obeyed the word from God, By which they received faith.




JLB

I asked where it is written that "ABRAHAM obeyed the word of faith" (post#307)? The "word of faith" is referring to Moses whom you do not follow (John 5:46). That is why your doctrine is so confusing to me. It is clear that Abraham believed G-d and it was credited to him as righteousness this is not Hebrews 11:8. On the contrary, Noah received righteousness that comes by faith; why? Noah did work, Noah built the ark! Faith is dead without works.

Hebrews 11:7

It was by faith that Noah built a large boat to save his family from the flood. He obeyed God, who warned him about things that had never happened before. By his faith Noah condemned the rest of the world, and he received the righteousness that comes by faith.

Abraham was not "credited" with the righteousness that comes by faith until Genesis 15:6.

 

[Mercy74]

It’s becoming clear you have no idea what your talking about, nor do you understand even the most elementary principles of faith.


I guess you have focused on trying to keep the law of Moses which has been abolished, rather than studying God’s word to show yourself approved.


Faith come by hearing God speak to us, whether directly or through a person who is sent by Him.


By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. Hebrews 11:7



God spoke to Noah to build an Ark.

Noah obeyed the word from God By which he received faith.


He is an heir of the righteousness of faith.



JLB

Noah did work! Noah built the ark; Moses servant built the "ark of the covenant". Yet you seem to think the law of Moses has been abolished? Moses and Noah did work, they built arks, (Abram, Noah, Moses) built the altar. Faith is dead without works. The "work" you call the law of Moses was passed down from Abraham. Of course righteous Abel and Noah offered sacrifices, they were both before Abram.

 

[JLB777]

I asked where it is written that "ABRAHAM obeyed the word of faith"

I gave you the scripture where Abraham obeyed the word of faith.


Here are three scriptures that all pertain to the same event from Genesis 12, where Abraham obeyed the word of faith, which means;
The word spoken to him from God By which he received faith.


By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. Hebrews 11:8


Now the Lord had said to Abram:
“Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.
I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”
So Abram departed as the Lord had spoken to him,
Genesis 12:1-4


And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” Galatians 3:8


Hopefully now you understand what the “word of faith” means.





JLB

 

[JLB777]

Noah did work! Noah built the ark; Moses servant built the "ark of the covenant". Yet you seem to think the law of Moses has been abolished?

The law of Moses has been abolished.

The word of faith continues to this day.


You don’t seem to understand the difference between the two.


The law is not of faith.


Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.” Galatians 3:12



Are you sacrificing animals when you sin?

Do you live in the land of Israel?

Do you travel to Jerusalem to keep the Passover, every year?

Are you physically circumcised?

Do you keep the Sabbath as required by the law of Moses?




JLB

 

[Mercy74]

I gave you the scripture where Abraham obeyed the word of faith.


Here are three scriptures that all pertain to the same event from Genesis 12, where Abraham obeyed the word of faith, which means;
The word spoken to him from God By which he received faith.


By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. Hebrews 11:8


Now the Lord had said to Abram:
“Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.
I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”
So Abram departed as the Lord had spoken to him,
Genesis 12:1-4


And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” Galatians 3:8


Hopefully now you understand what the “word of faith” means.





JLB

Please read post #312. I showed you the phrase "word of faith" according to Scripture. Paul the Pharisee was referencing Moses the lawgiver not Abraham. Of course this fact keeps getting ignored by you.

 

[Mercy74]

The law of Moses has been abolished.

The word of faith continues to this day.


You don’t seem to understand the difference between the two.


The law is not of faith.


Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.” Galatians 3:12



Are you sacrificing animals when you sin?

Do you live in the land of Israel?

Do you travel to Jerusalem to keep the Passover, every year?

Are you physically circumcised?

Do you keep the Sabbath as required by the law of Moses?




JLB

Please read post #312 (Deuteronomy 30:14 & Romans 10:8)

 

[JLB777]

Please read post #312. I showed you the phrase "word of faith" according to Scripture. Paul the Pharisee was referencing Moses the lawgiver not Abraham. Of course this fact keeps getting ignored by you.

Please make your point and use scripture.




JLB