two covenants

[ralliann]

"Seed" can be plural when referring to progeny; the seed of Abraham is all his progeny; and Christ would be a seed among many. Paul does specify Christ, but I don't know what Paul is talking about; I imagine the people Paul was speaking to would have understood or could have understood. Paul is making arguments in a debate which require the subject of the debate (which appears to not be revealed) as a context for his statements to be meaningful.

Taking verse 3:16 out of context, it appears to be a statement that I would disagree with. Lets have a look at some of the other verses out of the context of the debate Paul is engaged in:

Galatians 3:15 (NKJV)
15 Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man's covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it.


This is interesting; Paul defines a covenant as once confirmed a covenant cannot be annulled or added to. He also states he speaks in the manner of men, not as a spokesperson for God. So too does he state that the covenant he is discussing is a man's covenant not a God's covenant.

The conclusion that I reach from this verse, without acknowledging Paul as an authority but being in agreement with him, The new covenant does not annul or add to the old; The covenant is the same in both cases; the difference is in the new and the old; the old is Moses as mediator and the Levites as Priests; the new is Jesus as mediator, and King of the coming Kingdom and then a new Priesthood.


Galatians 3:13-14 (NKJV)
13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree"),
14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

What Christ is able to do is redeem us from the bondage of sin; I do not understand Paul's semantics of "curse of the Law" I do understand Christ was cursed when crusified, and when people fail to repent are cursed by the Law.

The covenants are made with Israel, Gentiles have to be folded in, so as to become Israel also.

Yes the two covenants made with Abraham and his seed. One covenant concerned princes the other concerned kings. Isaac was as Christ of the Royal seed (kings are anointed ones) Ishmael was not spoken of as the royal line, only Isaac.

 

[ralliann]

Yes.....they were, but Isaac's line bore the "seed" that was promised (Christ Jesus) thus becoming a Kingdom with authority on earth and in heaven (an eternal kingdom that cannot be shaken):

Galatians 3:16 ~ The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say, “and to seeds,” meaning many, but “and to your seed,” meaning One, who is Christ.

Genesis 21:12 ~ But God said to Abraham, "Do not be distressed because of the lad and your maid; whatever Sarah tells you, listen to her, for through Isaac your descendants shall be named.​

Yep I think so.
Jacob knew there was no altering of the promise concerning the "last days"....the blessing of the twelve sons of Jacob..

Gen 49:1 And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days.

The royal seed
8 Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy father’s children shall bow down before thee.
9 Judah is a lion’s whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up?
10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
11 Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass’s colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes:
12 His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk.

 

[ralliann]

"Seed" can be plural when referring to progeny; the seed of Abraham is all his progeny; and Christ would be a seed among many. Paul does specify Christ, but I don't know what Paul is talking about; I imagine the people Paul was speaking to would have understood or could have understood. Paul is making arguments in a debate which require the subject of the debate (which appears to not be revealed) as a context for his statements to be meaningful.

Taking verse 3:16 out of context, it appears to be a statement that I would disagree with. Lets have a look at some of the other verses out of the context of the debate Paul is engaged in:

Galatians 3:15 (NKJV)
15 Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man's covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it.


This is interesting; Paul defines a covenant as once confirmed a covenant cannot be annulled or added to. He also states he speaks in the manner of men, not as a spokesperson for God. So too does he state that the covenant he is discussing is a man's covenant not a God's covenant.

The conclusion that I reach from this verse, without acknowledging Paul as an authority but being in agreement with him, The new covenant does not annul or add to the old; The covenant is the same in both cases; the difference is in the new and the old; the old is Moses as mediator and the Levites as Priests; the new is Jesus as mediator, and King of the coming Kingdom and then a new Priesthood.


Galatians 3:13-14 (NKJV)
13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree"),
14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

What Christ is able to do is redeem us from the bondage of sin; I do not understand Paul's semantics of "curse of the Law" I do understand Christ was cursed when crusified, and when people fail to repent are cursed by the Law.

The covenants are made with Israel, Gentiles have to be folded in, so as to become Israel also.

Paul is speaking about the Abrahamic covenants made 430 years before the law cannot be altered by the Sinai covenant ( with it's curses).
Passover, unleavened bread etc. are memorial feasts to the fulfillment of the promises made in covenant 430 prior to Moses. Shadows of the reality of the fulfillment of the promises made to Abraham to be a father to many nations. Thts our Christian Passover celebration we have in Christ Jesus.

 

[sparow]

Yes the two covenants made with Abraham and his seed. One covenant concerned princes the other concerned kings. Isaac was as Christ of the Royal seed (kings are anointed ones) Ishmael was not spoken of as the royal line, only Isaac.

I have miss understood somewhere; I assumed old and new covenant; the word covenant is used in many different ways; sometimes promises or prophesies, are called covenants. I conclude God has only one covenant and all those specifically mentioned are subsets of the one and two blood covenants.

 

[sparow]

Paul is speaking about the Abrahamic covenants made 430 years before the law cannot be altered by the Sinai covenant ( with it's curses).
Passover, unleavened bread etc. are memorial feasts to the fulfillment of the promises made in covenant 430 prior to Moses. Shadows of the reality of the fulfillment of the promises made to Abraham to be a father to many nations. Thts our Christian Passover celebration we have in Christ Jesus.

I sense a strong presence of dispensationalism in your reply, which I do not subscribe to.

Words like covenant and curses bother me; they are more to do with old English semantics and do not accurately reveal the Biblical meaning .

That there are 430 covenants prior to Moses amazes me; I have never heard of them counted before. The Passover was a type, lasting seven days, that could represent the 2000 + year antitype of Christ culminating id the resurrection of the righteous; or it could represent the seven thousand years, including the millennium, of the creation of the Kingdom of God.

 

[ralliann]

I have miss understood somewhere; I assumed old and new covenant; the word covenant is used in many different ways; sometimes promises or prophesies, are called covenants. I conclude God has only one covenant and all those specifically mentioned are subsets of the one and two blood covenants.

God made two covenants with Abraham. One in Genesis 15 the other in Genesis 17. The covenant made with Israel cannot add to or take away from those covenants. That is what Paul is talking about.
The covenant made with Israel is distinct from the Covenants made earlier with their fathers.
The covenant made with Israel at Sinai aka Horeb....was not made with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob....

Deut 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them. {keep … : Heb. keep to do them }
2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

 

[ralliann]

I sense a strong presence of dispensationalism in your reply, which I do not subscribe to.

How so? I am not a dispensationalist.

Words like covenant and curses bother me; they are more to do with old English semantics and do not accurately reveal the Biblical meaning .

Well a curse is the opposite of a blessing, a term which is associated with wrath and anger. So I do not know exactly what trouble you have with curse being a term.

That there are 430 covenants prior to Moses amazes me; I have never heard of them counted before.

That was a typo Sorry. I was speaking of 430 years as in this verse....
Ga 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

The Passover was a type, lasting seven days, that could represent the 2000 + year antitype of Christ culminating id the resurrection of the righteous; or it could represent the seven thousand years, including the millennium, of the creation of the Kingdom of God.

All I know is... the Passover is a sacrifice, and unleavened bread is a feast to Memorialize the fulfillment of the covenant promises made 430 earlier to their Fathers. The new covenant also remembers the Passover established in covenant with Abraham as well. Passover and unleavened bread are not feasts originating from the Sinai covenant made with the Nation of Israel. They are feasts originating from the covenants made with the fathers and celebrate the fulfillment of those covenant promises. All in Christ Jesus are Children of promise to our Father Abraham. We celebrate the memorial of the promise of our Passover sacrifice in Jesus.

 

[Mercy74]

God made two covenants with Abraham. One in Genesis 15 the other in Genesis 17. The covenant made with Israel cannot add to or take away from those covenants. That is what Paul is talking about.
The covenant made with Israel is distinct from the Covenants made earlier with their fathers.
The covenant made with Israel at Sinai aka Horeb....was not made with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob....

Deut 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them. {keep … : Heb. keep to do them }
2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

Moses was leading the children of Israel to take possession of the promise land;
But God gave him no inheritance here, not even one square foot of land. God did promise, however, that eventually the whole land would belong to Abraham and his descendents-even though he had no children yet (Acts 7:5).

 

[sparow]

How so? I am not a dispensationalist.

Well a curse is the opposite of a blessing, a term which is associated with wrath and anger. So I do not know exactly what trouble you have with curse being a term.

That was a typo Sorry. I was speaking of 430 years as in this verse....
Ga 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

All I know is... the Passover is a sacrifice, and unleavened bread is a feast to Memorialize the fulfillment of the covenant promises made 430 earlier to their Fathers. The new covenant also remembers the Passover established in covenant with Abraham as well. Passover and unleavened bread are not feasts originating from the Sinai covenant made with the Nation of Israel. They are feasts originating from the covenants made with the fathers and celebrate the fulfillment of those covenant promises. All in Christ Jesus are Children of promise to our Father Abraham. We celebrate the memorial of the promise of our Passover sacrifice in Jesus.

I think it was the typo you mention that caused me to think Dispensationalism

Galatians 3:13-14 (NKJV)
13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree"),
14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith..

I have a lot of trouble with this and the issue for me is probably semantics. Does the Law have a curse; the penalty of sin is death (the second death) if we fail to repent. People who are crucified die the first death. Christ does not redeem us from the first death, we all die, He redeems us from the consequences of sin, but only in the sense or on the condition that we keep His commandments.

That was a typo Sorry. I was speaking of 430 years as in this verse....
Ga 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

I cannot disagree with what Paul has said here, but he has made an unnecessary division. Christ's presence also confirms the Sinai covenant as well the Sinai covenant confirms earlier covenants..

The Passover was an event; to say the Passover is a sacrifice is to refer only to an aspect of the event.

One way of looking at this is to ask, what was passed over, and what passed over the what?

What was passed over was a house, any house that had the blood of a sacrificed lamb on it's door jamb. What passed over the house was the spirit of God, and if the Blood was not on the door jamb the first born in the house died, There was also a feast in that the lamb sacrificed was eaten by the household. The Passover feast which is part of the Sinai covenant Remembers that event and also projects it into the future where the Messiah is the Passover Lamb as well as the spirit flying over.

 

[ralliann]

I think it was the typo you mention that caused me to think Dispensationalism

Galatians 3:13-14 (NKJV)
13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree"),
14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith..

I have a lot of trouble with this and the issue for me is probably semantics.

I quess I do not get why you do? That is not clear to me from your posts.

Does the Law have a curse;

Quite clearly it does.
De 11:26 Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;

Ga 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

I cannot disagree with what Paul has said here, but he has made an unnecessary division.

But it seems you are in disagreement. For you say he has made an unnecessary division. Since I try to look at scripture through the teachings of Paul I would expect you would therefore disagree with what I think as well

Christ's presence also confirms the Sinai covenant as well the Sinai covenant confirms earlier covenants..

Don't know what you mean here.

The Passover was an event; to say the Passover is a sacrifice is to refer only to an aspect of the event.

One way of looking at this is to ask, what was passed over, and what passed over the what?

What was passed over was a house, any house that had the blood of a sacrificed lamb on it's door jamb. What passed over the house was the spirit of God, and if the Blood was not on the door jamb the first born in the house died, There was also a feast in that the lamb sacrificed was eaten by the household. The Passover feast which is part of the Sinai covenant Remembers that event and also projects it into the future where the Messiah is the Passover Lamb as well as the spirit flying over.

You missed my point. The events were by and through the covenant made with their fathers. Sinai was not made with their fathers. Therefore none of the Abrahamic promised blessings originate from the covenant made at Sinai. Although those that curse Abraham will be cursed might.

 

[ralliann]

Moses was leading the children of Israel to take possession of the promise land;
But God gave him no inheritance here, not even one square foot of land. God did promise, however, that eventually the whole land would belong to Abraham and his descendents-even though he had no children yet (Acts 7:5).

Abrahams inheritance was eternal, not temporal.
In the next life, not this life.
Genesis 15: The covenant made with the fourth generation of his seed

13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.
16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.

18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

The above covenant concerned the fourth generation after Abraham was dead

Isaac would be dead

Jacob would be dead

The patriarchs would be dead by the time this covenant came into force (as the book of Hebrews tells us)

Joseph knew he would be dead

Ex 1:6 And Joseph died, and all his brethren, and all that generation.
Ge 50:25 And Joseph took an oath of the children of Israel, saying, God will surely visit you, and ye shall carry up my bones from hence.
Ex 13:19 And Moses took the bones of Joseph with him: for he had straitly sworn the children of Israel, saying, God will surely visit you; and ye shall carry up my bones away hence with you.

This is why Abraham's faith in the resurrection of the dead was tried by God......
Heb 11:19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

 

[ralliann]

Both Ishmael and Isaac were earthly kingdoms

No Isaac never had a kingdom on the earth.

Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

 

[sparow]

I quess I do not get why you do? That is not clear to me from your posts.

Quite clearly it does.
De 11:26 Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;



But it seems you are in disagreement. For you say he has made an unnecessary division. Since I try to look at scripture through the teachings of Paul I would expect you would therefore disagree with what I think as well

Don't know what you mean here.

You missed my point. The events were by and through the covenant made with their fathers. Sinai was not made with their fathers. Therefore none of the Abrahamic promised blessings originate from the covenant made at Sinai. Although those that curse Abraham will be cursed might.

.


This link gives some meaning to the concept of curse used in Duet11:26.

7 Facts Everyone Should Know About Mount Gerizim and Mount Ebal

The reason I thought you were Dispensationalist is you take the words literally instead of seeking what the user of the words means.

Christ coming primarily was the confirming of the Sinai covenant, as told by daniel, Christ's crucifixion was because the Sinai covenant was broken; had the covenant not been broken there would be no need for shed blood. The Babylonian captivity was because the covenant was broken and the captivity was an expression of the curse we are discussing. The covenants God makes accrue, like Paul said, subsequent covenants do not annul earlier covenants.

 

[ralliann]

.


This link gives some meaning to the concept of curse used in Duet11:26.

7 Facts Everyone Should Know About Mount Gerizim and Mount Ebal

The reason I thought you were Dispensationalist is you take the words literally instead of seeking what the user of the words means.

Christ coming primarily was the confirming of the Sinai covenant, as told by daniel, Christ's crucifixion was because the Sinai covenant was broken; had the covenant not been broken there would be no need for shed blood. The Babylonian captivity was because the covenant was broken and the captivity was an expression of the curse we are discussing. The covenants God makes accrue, like Paul said, subsequent covenants do not annul earlier covenants.

The Sinai covenant repeats this truth....
Gods goal has always been to fulfill the promises made to Abraham.
Passover and unleavened bread have their origin in the Abrahamic covenant.

Ex 2:24 And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.
3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
4 And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers.
5 And I have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel, whom the Egyptians keep in bondage; and I have remembered my covenant.

*Wrath and anger by the law, Gods mercy in the former covenant made with their fathers

Le 26:42 Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.
Le 26:44 And yet for all that, when they be in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break my covenant with them: for I am the LORD their God.
Le 26:45 But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their God: I am the LORD.

*The Abrahamic covenant is a covenant of mercy

De 4:31 (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.

*Sinai covenant not made with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob..

De 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
De 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

*Abrahamic covenant a covenant of Mercy, the law brings wrath..

De 7:9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
De 7:12 Wherefore it shall come to pass, if ye hearken to these judgments, and keep, and do them, that the LORD thy God shall keep unto thee the covenant and the mercy which he sware unto thy fathers: {if: Heb. because }
De 8:18 But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.

De 29:21 And the LORD shall separate him unto evil out of all the tribes of Israel, according to all the curses of the covenant that are written in this book of the law:
*Prophetic utterance concerning the end of the law.
God already knew their end....

Deut 31:16 And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them. {sleep: Heb. lie down }
17 Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us? {befall: Heb. find }
18 And I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evils which they shall have wrought, in that they are turned unto other gods.

* Before they even entered the land God prophetically spoke the result of Sinai
19 Now therefore write ye this song for you, and teach it the children of Israel: put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for me against the children of Israel.
20 For when I shall have brought them into the land which I sware unto their fathers, that floweth with milk and honey; and they shall have eaten and filled themselves, and waxen fat; then will they turn unto other gods, and serve them, and provoke me, and break my covenant.
21 And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are befallen them, that this song shall testify against them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they go about, even now, before I have brought them into the land which I sware. {against: Heb. before } {go … : Heb.

None of the things above harm the righteous faithful. The promised blessings of mercy in the covenant made with Abraham cannot be disannulled. God keeps his oath, he is faithful and sure.

I do not know what you think is so important about a covenant not even made with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. It is puzzling. Christ Jesus is the fulfillment of the promise made to Abraham.

 

[Mercy74]

Abrahams inheritance was eternal, not temporal.
In the next life, not this life.
Genesis 15: The covenant made with the fourth generation of his seed

13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.
16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.

18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

The above covenant concerned the fourth generation after Abraham was dead

Isaac would be dead

Jacob would be dead

The patriarchs would be dead by the time this covenant came into force (as the book of Hebrews tells us)

Joseph knew he would be dead

Ex 1:6 And Joseph died, and all his brethren, and all that generation.
Ge 50:25 And Joseph took an oath of the children of Israel, saying, God will surely visit you, and ye shall carry up my bones from hence.
Ex 13:19 And Moses took the bones of Joseph with him: for he had straitly sworn the children of Israel, saying, God will surely visit you; and ye shall carry up my bones away hence with you.

This is why Abraham's faith in the resurrection of the dead was tried by God......
Heb 11:19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

However Abraham lived in the land and was buried; even Joseph's bones were carried away by Moses. Your understanding of Scripture is not cogent. The pharoah forgot about Joseph's dreams and his wisdom. For this cause he sought to persecute Israel; the firstborn of YHWH. A prophet named Moses was born after Joseph died in Egypt. Moses lead Israel to a holy city whose Maker is YHWH. Abraham desired a holy city. Yeshua says he desired the Father's will or the kingdom of heaven on earth. Although property rights are normally transferred from the father to his son by legal reason of death; the prodigal son and his elder brother received their portion while alive. Faith teaches us that a prince can exercise his royal authority while his father liveth. Abraham was called a "prince" by the inhabitants of the promise land (Genesis 23:6). We know a prince has royal authority to govern a city.

 

[Mercy74]

The Sinai covenant repeats this truth....
Gods goal has always been to fulfill the promises made to Abraham.
Passover and unleavened bread have their origin in the Abrahamic covenant.

Ex 2:24 And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.
3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
4 And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers.
5 And I have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel, whom the Egyptians keep in bondage; and I have remembered my covenant.

*Wrath and anger by the law, Gods mercy in the former covenant made with their fathers

Le 26:42 Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.
Le 26:44 And yet for all that, when they be in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break my covenant with them: for I am the LORD their God.
Le 26:45 But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their God: I am the LORD.

*The Abrahamic covenant is a covenant of mercy

De 4:31 (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.

*Sinai covenant not made with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob..

De 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
De 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

*Abrahamic covenant a covenant of Mercy, the law brings wrath..

De 7:9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
De 7:12 Wherefore it shall come to pass, if ye hearken to these judgments, and keep, and do them, that the LORD thy God shall keep unto thee the covenant and the mercy which he sware unto thy fathers: {if: Heb. because }
De 8:18 But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.

De 29:21 And the LORD shall separate him unto evil out of all the tribes of Israel, according to all the curses of the covenant that are written in this book of the law:
*Prophetic utterance concerning the end of the law.
God already knew their end....

Deut 31:16 And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them. {sleep: Heb. lie down }
17 Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us? {befall: Heb. find }
18 And I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evils which they shall have wrought, in that they are turned unto other gods.

* Before they even entered the land God prophetically spoke the result of Sinai
19 Now therefore write ye this song for you, and teach it the children of Israel: put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for me against the children of Israel.
20 For when I shall have brought them into the land which I sware unto their fathers, that floweth with milk and honey; and they shall have eaten and filled themselves, and waxen fat; then will they turn unto other gods, and serve them, and provoke me, and break my covenant.
21 And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are befallen them, that this song shall testify against them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they go about, even now, before I have brought them into the land which I sware. {against: Heb. before } {go … : Heb.

None of the things above harm the righteous faithful. The promised blessings of mercy in the covenant made with Abraham cannot be disannulled. God keeps his oath, he is faithful and sure.

I do not know what you think is so important about a covenant not even made with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. It is puzzling. Christ Jesus is the fulfillment of the promise made to Abraham.

The covenant is reestablished in every generation as they honor Torah. A promise was made to Noah then the covenant is established or confirmed with Noah. The covenant reassures or confirm what has already been promised to our fathers.

 

[ralliann]

The covenant is reestablished in every generation as they honor Torah. A promise was made to Noah then the covenant is established or confirmed with Noah. The covenant reassures or confirm what has already been promised to our fathers.

Again Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were not party to the Sinai covenant. Their inheritance concerns the eternal heavenly citizenship in the next world and next life. We in Christ Jesus are all heirs of the promise. Abraham the father of many nations. Not just one.

 

[sparow]

The Sinai covenant repeats this truth....
Gods goal has always been to fulfill the promises made to Abraham.
Passover and unleavened bread have their origin in the Abrahamic covenant.

Ex 2:24 And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.
3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
4 And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers.
5 And I have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel, whom the Egyptians keep in bondage; and I have remembered my covenant.

*Wrath and anger by the law, Gods mercy in the former covenant made with their fathers

Le 26:42 Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.
Le 26:44 And yet for all that, when they be in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break my covenant with them: for I am the LORD their God.
Le 26:45 But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their God: I am the LORD.

*The Abrahamic covenant is a covenant of mercy

De 4:31 (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.

*Sinai covenant not made with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob..

De 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
De 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

*Abrahamic covenant a covenant of Mercy, the law brings wrath..

De 7:9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
De 7:12 Wherefore it shall come to pass, if ye hearken to these judgments, and keep, and do them, that the LORD thy God shall keep unto thee the covenant and the mercy which he sware unto thy fathers: {if: Heb. because }
De 8:18 But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.

De 29:21 And the LORD shall separate him unto evil out of all the tribes of Israel, according to all the curses of the covenant that are written in this book of the law:
*Prophetic utterance concerning the end of the law.
God already knew their end....

Deut 31:16 And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them. {sleep: Heb. lie down }
17 Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us? {befall: Heb. find }
18 And I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evils which they shall have wrought, in that they are turned unto other gods.

* Before they even entered the land God prophetically spoke the result of Sinai
19 Now therefore write ye this song for you, and teach it the children of Israel: put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for me against the children of Israel.
20 For when I shall have brought them into the land which I sware unto their fathers, that floweth with milk and honey; and they shall have eaten and filled themselves, and waxen fat; then will they turn unto other gods, and serve them, and provoke me, and break my covenant.
21 And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are befallen them, that this song shall testify against them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they go about, even now, before I have brought them into the land which I sware. {against: Heb. before } {go … : Heb.

None of the things above harm the righteous faithful. The promised blessings of mercy in the covenant made with Abraham cannot be disannulled. God keeps his oath, he is faithful and sure.

I do not know what you think is so important about a covenant not even made with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. It is puzzling. Christ Jesus is the fulfillment of the promise made to Abraham.

We seem to be on different pages, now I am not sure what we are discussing. The Law does not harm the righteous, (to some minds faithful means righteous). Christ is prophesied in all the scriptures, beginning with Genesis; He is also the God who created heaven and earth and who made the covenants. If there was a promise of Christ to Abraham it would have been mentioned by Moses when he discusses Abraham and I am not aware of that; not that it would matter.

“”Christ Jesus is the fulfillment of the promise made to Abraham. “” Does this mean that Christ is not the fulfilment of any other promise or covenant?

Regarding the covenant with Abraham that cannot be annulled; Which covenant; as I remember there are two, the first God promises a large area fro Egypt to the Euphrates, and the second covenant regarding the land of Israel which is within the first land mass; but this second covenant is dependant on circumcision.

Genesis 17:14 (NKJV)
14 And the uncircumcised male child, who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that person shall be cut off from his people; he has broken My covenant."


I am not suggesting the covenant, any covenant, can be annulled, on the contrary, the covenant cannot be annulled and circumcision is still required.
God new every thing that would and has happened before creation; still the algorithm continues to run from Adam thru to the Kingdom of God.

“”according to all the curses of the covenant that are written in this book of the law: “”

The difference between a blessing and a curse is largely to do with grammar;

Matthew 19:17 (NKJV)
17 So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. “But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."

According to Jewish sources, that being positive, was a blessing; “But if you do not want to enter into life, do not keep the commandments."; this being negative is a curse. The covenant also called the Law is a mix of blessings and curses.

 

[ralliann]

We seem to be on different pages, now I am not sure what we are discussing. The Law does not harm the righteous, (to some minds faithful means righteous). Christ is prophesied in all the scriptures, beginning with Genesis; He is also the God who created heaven and earth and who made the covenants. If there was a promise of Christ to Abraham it would have been mentioned by Moses when he discusses Abraham and I am not aware of that; not that it would matter.

Did Moses give us the scripture account Paul speaks of here?

Gal 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

“”Christ Jesus is the fulfillment of the promise made to Abraham. “” Does this mean that Christ is not the fulfilment of any other promise or covenant?

Not in the fulness of his work and power.

Regarding the covenant with Abraham that cannot be annulled; Which covenant; as I remember there are two, the first God promises a large area fro Egypt to the Euphrates, and the second covenant regarding the land of Israel which is within the first land mass; but this second covenant is dependant on circumcision.

Genesis 17:14 (NKJV)
14 And the uncircumcised male child, who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that person shall be cut off from his people; he has broken My covenant."

Actually both covenants are dependent upon circumcision. The difference is one is carnal of the foreskin of the flesh. The other is spiritual in the foreskin of the heart. But the Sinai covenant gives no inheritance in Abraham to the nations. The new covenant includes all the Children promised to Abraham. One covenant concerns heirs which are princes, the other kings.
The Sinai covenant does not establish kings.

I am not suggesting the covenant, any covenant, can be annulled, on the contrary, the covenant cannot be annulled and circumcision is still required.
God new every thing that would and has happened before creation; still the algorithm continues to run from Adam thru to the Kingdom of God.

“”according to all the curses of the covenant that are written in this book of the law: “”

The difference between a blessing and a curse is largely to do with grammar;

Matthew 19:17 (NKJV)
17 So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. “But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."

According to Jewish sources, that being positive, was a blessing; “But if you do not want to enter into life, do not keep the commandments."; this being negative is a curse. The covenant also called the Law is a mix of blessings and curses.

The blessings of the covenant made with the fathers cannot be disannulled, by the Sinai covenant. Those blessings remain into the Sinai covenant. But...also means the blessings are before and apart from the Sinai covenant.

 

[Gup20]

Did Moses give us the scripture account Paul speaks of here?

Gal 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
Not in the fulness of his work and power.

Actually both covenants are dependent upon circumcision. The difference is one is carnal of the foreskin of the flesh. The other is spiritual in the foreskin of the heart. But the Sinai covenant gives no inheritance in Abraham to the nations. The new covenant includes all the Children promised to Abraham. One covenant concerns heirs which are princes, the other kings.
The Sinai covenant does not establish kings.

The blessings of the covenant made with the fathers cannot be disannulled, by the Sinai covenant. Those blessings remain into the Sinai covenant. But...also means the blessings are before and apart from the Sinai covenant.

Indeed. The Sinai covenant has "earned righteousness" while the covenant of faith with Abraham is an "inherited righteousness."

[Rom 4:1-6 NASB] 1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? "ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." 4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. 5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: