Two Cabins

[Chesterton]

Given religion's failure to settle on a coherent and consistent moral philosophy that does not simply revert to conflicting variations on "God said it!," it seems that you too need to come up with one as well.

Alternatives have been discussed and discarded since the ancient Greeks at least. But human history is a democracy, and it's voted consistently in favor of God. You may think the great mass of humanity are and always have been complete fools but I don't.

 

[lupusFati]

Alternatives have been discussed and discarded since the ancient Greeks at least. But human history is a democracy, and it's voted consistently in favor of God. You may think the great mass of humanity are and always have been complete fools but I don't.

...Human history has been anything but a democracy.

 

[Chesterton]

...Human history has been anything but a democracy.

When it comes to ideas it is.

 

[Eight Foot Manchild]

Everyone would choose the Christian and they know it. No one will admit this, though.

Well, now that you're done playing 'apologetic fact make-believe', here is an actual, non-imaginary fact - you have no access to my thoughts, and thus no business pretending to know what I would choose, or why.

To answer the OP - there is zero indication whatsoever that religious people are more moral than atheists, so that is not a factor in my choice. It would ultimately depend on what kind of company I'm in the mood for.

I generally enjoy talking to religiously-minded people more than people who agree with me, so I'd tend to lean toward the Christian. On the other hand, sometimes it's good to just sit down and commiserate with fellow atheists.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Alternatives have been discussed and discarded since the ancient Greeks at least. But human history is a democracy, and it's voted consistently in favor of God. You may think the great mass of humanity are and always have been complete fools but I don't.

Human history is a democracy of ideas? Lol what?

I hate to break it to you...but when you consider that in most places the idea that you can say god doesn't exist and not get punished or executed for it is relatively new. Maybe if you think really carefully you'll remember one of those ancient Greeks who got executed for saying as much. If that's your idea of "democracy" I'd be really curious about what you call a dictatorship.

Give it time. Like most truths that people don't like hearing...it takes a little while to get a foothold. Once it does though...the old lies tend to die out or fester in obscurity.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Alternatives have been discussed and discarded since the ancient Greeks at least. But human history is a democracy, and it's voted consistently in favor of God. You may think the great mass of humanity are and always have been complete fools but I don't.

Actually, it has voted inconsistently over centuries for a variety of gods. Supposing you had an argument here, it would be an appeal to the majority.

 

[Nithavela]

But human history is a democracy, and it's voted consistently in favor of God.

Was that why god flooded the entire world and killed everyone?

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

But human history is a democracy, and it's voted consistently in favor of God.

Human history has not been characterized by democratic processes either politically or ideologically.

And human history has not consistently voted in favour of one specific God. Even today, there are competing votes for different gods.

You may think the great mass of humanity are and always have been complete fools but I don't.

Not fools, but perhaps ill-informed.

 

[Chesterton]

Human history is a democracy of ideas? Lol what?

Yes, or if you want you can look at it as Dawkins' idea of memes. Ideas get passed around and some survive and are passed on. Survival of the fittest.

I hate to break it to you...but when you consider that in most places the idea that you can say god doesn't exist and not get punished or executed for it is relatively new. Maybe if you think really carefully you'll remember one of those ancient Greeks who got executed for saying as much. If that's your idea of "democracy" I'd be really curious about what you call a dictatorship.

Socrates, or someone else? I don't think he qualifies as an atheist martyr since the charges against him may have included introducing new gods.

Give it time. Like most truths that people don't like hearing...it takes a little while to get a foothold. Once it does though...the old lies tend to die out or fester in obscurity.

I guess it does take a little while, like all of human history so far.

 

[Aureus]

Option 3. Cowboy camping. Dig a hole for the gold.

 

[keith99]

Option 3. Cowboy camping. Dig a hole for the gold.

Good point.

It also reminded me of something I thought of earlier. So what if you have some gold on you? How is the potential 'innkeeper' going to know unless you are foolish enough to tell him?

Perhaps that points to a rather weak reason to favor the atheist. The Christian's god may decide it it time for a test and let the Christian learn of the gold in a dream. Less chance of that for the atheist.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Good point.

It also reminded me of something I thought of earlier. So what if you have some gold on you? How is the potential 'innkeeper' going to know unless you are foolish enough to tell him?

Perhaps that points to a rather weak reason to favor the atheist. The Christian's god may decide it it time for a test and let the Christian learn of the gold in a dream. Less chance of that for the atheist.

I took the bag of gold as being necessarily too large to hide. This is why the bag is introduced into the question to begin with. If you simply had a bill-fold of thousands...you could probably conceal it easily.

 

[Chesterton]

Option 3. Cowboy camping. Dig a hole for the gold.

Good point.

It also reminded me of something I thought of earlier. So what if you have some gold on you? How is the potential 'innkeeper' going to know unless you are foolish enough to tell him?

Perhaps that points to a rather weak reason to favor the atheist. The Christian's god may decide it it time for a test and let the Christian learn of the gold in a dream. Less chance of that for the atheist.

You realize I'd have to make a much longer post to cover all potential details, right? This isn't a game of Space Invaders; no evasive side-stepping allowed, unless you are a certified Doctor of Jurisprudence.

I took the bag of gold as being necessarily too large to hide. This is why the bag is introduced into the question to begin with. If you simply had a bill-fold of thousands...you could probably conceal it easily.

Very perceptive, Ana.

 

[Davian]

Alternatives have been discussed and discarded since the ancient Greeks at least. But human history is a democracy, and it's voted consistently in favor of God.

Not necessarily your god, for sure.

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You may think the great mass of humanity are and always have been complete fools but I don't.

I do not think them to be fools. My hypothesis is that with the emergence of self-awareness, an evolutionary trait selected for because of its benefit to survival over the less-aware competition, what followed was existential angst, for which our ancestors, ever the inventive type, created memes to address the resultant fears. That evolved into religion.

It is normal, particularly when we are young, to believe on faith. Children that failed to quickly heed their elders stories about the dangers of a rather hostile world did not get the chance to be our ancestors. We are descendants of storytellers, and story believers. (Successful) religions are tailor-fitted to fit our story telling (and story believing) nature.

Evolutionary origin of religions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As for being a 'democracy', I think the voting procedure of the past left lots to be desired.

Yes, or if you want you can look at it as Dawkins' idea of memes. Ideas get passed around and some survive and are passed on. Survival of the fittest.

And like many religions, Christianity was created to fit our evolved nature. That does not exempt the claims of this or any religion from the requirement of its claims being demonstrated as accurately reflecting reality.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Yes, or if you want you can look at it as Dawkins' idea of memes. Ideas get passed around and some survive and are passed on. Survival of the fittest.



Socrates, or someone else? I don't think he qualifies as an atheist martyr since the charges against him may have included introducing new gods.



I guess it does take a little while, like all of human history so far.

I never looked into Dawkins on anything...never read any of his work...never watched him speak. In the context you're speaking of though...fittest doesn't necessarily translate to truth.

When we talk about a "democracy of ideas" you have to basically exclude the entire category of theology from the discussion. There's nothing democratic about the way religions (particularly christianity) handle the exchange of ideas. Doctrine has to be indoctrinated then defended against any ideas which might contradict it. Whether or not the idea being defended against is true has nothing to do with how a religion regards it. The only consideration religion has is whether or not the idea supports or contradicts doctrine.

I don't really have to pull example upon example of this, do I? Certainly you're aware of how christianity has dealt with competing ideas (religions) and scientific facts throughout its history. Would you call this a democracy?

Only in the last few hundred years...only in certain places...has religion lost the ability to use violence and the threat of violence to stop the consideration of competing ideas. If democracy were run this way, we'd have one political party to which everyone belonged whether they agreed with it or not and no elections at all.

 

[JGG]

Practically the atheist equivalent of four Popes.



I don't know what 3 I'm living up to. I answered the OP and gave my reason for my answer. I didn't do any of the other things you said. My answer is probably similar to the reason politicians don't come out and say they're atheists. That's on you. You need to come up with a moral philosophy which is as compelling as the supernatural compulsion we all feel.

I do? Why?

But you are claiming, and have claimed that Christians are morally superior to atheists at least. One of your stereotypes is that Christians believe themselves morally superior to others. Yet you sit here claiming that you don't live up to those stereotypes?

I could point out the others, but other posters already have and you choose to ignore them.

Instead let me ask this: Are you a good Christian? If you take all of the professed Christians, all of the Cafeteria Christians, the CINO's, the fairweather Christians, the True Christians, the weirdos, and all of the Real Christians, where do you stack up on the Good Christian scale? Do you inspire others to be better? Are you a Christian others would look up to? If you were to rank yourself are you among the good Christians?

I'll go with whatever your answer is.

 

[ThinkForYourself]

This is inspired by Tree Of Life's "Persuasiveness of the Christian Community" thread. I didn't want to hijack that one.

It's a hypothetical scenario I think I read in a book a long time ago - you're traveling to a town, but you're having to walk a long way through the woods to get there. It's snowing, temperature's below freezing, and you have to stop for the night. A man you came across earlier told you there are two cabins up ahead with warm fire and food. You asked him about who lived in them, and he replied that he didn't know either of the occupants, except it was known that one man was an atheist (cabin A), and the other man was a Christian (cabin B). That's all you know. Another thing, you're carrying a bag with your life savings in gold coins, so if you're going to sleep you'd like to be able to trust the person who's offering you hospitality not to murder you and/or steal your money. Which cabin would you go to?

Well, the USA has a lot of Christians, and a lot of crime.

Japan has hardly any Christians, and far less crime.

I think the best bet is to go to the atheist's cabin.

 

[lupusFati]

I get what you're trying to say but that's not really a fair comparison, and you know it.

 

[durangodawood]

I get what you're trying to say but that's not really a fair comparison, and you know it.

Yes.

Because Christianity is a moral philosophy (among other things).

While atheism is not.

 

[Chesterton]

Not necessarily your god, for sure.

I didn't claim necessarily my God.

I do not think them to be fools. My hypothesis is that with the emergence of self-awareness,... [snip]

Get back to me when you've proven your hypothesis. You demand proof of every Christian claim a Christian makes on here, I should be entitled to do the same.

And like many religions, Christianity was created to fit our evolved nature. That does not exempt the claims of this or any religion from the requirement of its claims being demonstrated as accurately reflecting reality.

Another unproven belief.