Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
They would have equated all Jews to being lost sheep. That's why He told them that the reason they didn't believe was because they were not His sheep.
and I've shown it to you. WHOEVER is not ALL. I can't help you if you don't understand this simple phrase.
Where does it say that ALL lost sheep enter through Jesus?
Your lack of accepting it does not mean I didn't do so.
That's right, but He did NOT say they were not lost sheep. His sheep are NOT lost.
I'm not sure why this is so hard to see for some?
When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. (John 10:4 NASB)
Nowhere will you find Jesus talking about sheep that aren't His, or sheep that don't hear Him, or sheep that don't follow.
Well that's because you're trying to read it as one homogenous chronological teaching, when it is separate thoughts.
He does talk about sheep that aren't his, and he calls them LOST sheep.
I understand that RT has no defense for its claims, so this is all that there is in "rebuttal".There's nothing about sheep without a shepherd in John 10. Trying to have this discussion with you when you just jump all around and show no consistency is proving to be quite daunting.
The obvious point is that when Jesus saw multitudes of people, He described them as sheep without a shepherd. If you want to argue that these entire crowds were believers, please be my guest.Jesus was going through all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every kind of disease and every kind of sickness. Seeing the people, He felt compassion for them, because they were distressed and dispirited like sheep without a shepherd. Then He said to His disciples, "The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Therefore beseech the Lord of the harvest to send out workers into His harvest." (Matthew 9:35-38 NASB)
There's the passage. How are you getting all of humanity from this? And, do you know the difference between a simile and a metaphor?
Seems there's a lot of misunderstanding going on. There is wrath for the believer who sins as well. But maybe your definition of wrath needs adjusting.The world experiences the wrath of God. Sins for them have no propitiation, no appeasement purchased for them by Christ because the world is not in Christ.
http://www.theopedia.com/Propitiation
The wrath of God remains upon unbelievers.
So then there is no turning away of God's wrath abiding on the world of unbelievers.
It is a strange thing to claim God's wrath has been turned away by the propitiation of Christ for unbelievers.
Correct! The sheep that enter the "door" BECOME His sheep. Not before.You're putting the cart before the horse.
John 10 says nothing about entering by him because they hear his voice.
Once they are his sheep then they know and hear his voice, NOT before.
Regarding John 10, totally irrelevant.Let's pretend you're right. Sheep are still sheep, and goats are still goats, regardless whether or not they look alike (which is a strange claim, indeed.
No, only the one's who have entered by the "door" are saved. Haven't you read John 10 yet?I'm not the shepherd. I don't need to discern. But the fact still remains, which you are actually affirming, that sheep are sheep. And the sheep are saved.
Please guide me to the verse that indicates the order you have assumed.I read verse 9 in context. And yes, once sheep enter through the door (because they heard the shepherd) are saved.
But they were Jews, right? So how can "lost sheep" not be HIS sheep, then? Please explain that one.They would have equated all Jews to being lost sheep. That's why He told them that the reason they didn't believe was because they were not His sheep.
No, He doesn't. But please provide the scripture reference.
A truly ASTOUNDING statement, given that Jesus actually said this:Nowhere will you find Jesus talking about sheep that aren't His
If Jesus had described them as goats, or rams, or something else, you would possible have a point.or sheep that don't hear Him, or sheep that don't follow.
Kinda funny, but it seems he views "lost sheep" as saved ones. Go figure.Matthew 10:6
Go instead to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Matthew 15:24
So he answered, I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?