Turn the other cheek

Tellyontellyon

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Jesus seems to consistently put forth the instruction to be peaceful and not respond in kind to violence or domination...
But then we have the thing at the temple where he is whipping people.

How should a Christian conduct themselves in the face of a threat?

Can they defend themselves? Or can violence only be used to defend the 'temple', the church, God's word etc.?
 

JosephZ

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Jesus seems to consistently put forth the instruction to be peaceful and not respond in kind to violence or domination...
But then we have the thing at the temple where he is whipping people.
Below are a few popular translations of the incident at the market place you are referring to as it is recorded in John 2:13-16:

(He) found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables; And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise. (KJV)

In the temple courts he found people selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. To those who sold doves he said, “Get these out of here! Stop turning my Father’s house into a market!” (NIV)

He found in the temple those who were selling oxen and sheep and doves, and the money changers seated at their tables. And He made a scourge of cords, and drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen; and He poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables; and to those who were selling the doves He said, “Take these things away; stop making My Father’s house a place of business.” (NASB)

He found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: and he made a scourge of cords, and cast all out of the temple, both the sheep and the oxen; and he poured out the changers’ money, and overthrew their tables; and to them that sold the doves he said, Take these things hence; make not my Father’s house a house of merchandise. (ASV)

In the temple he found those who were selling oxen and sheep and pigeons, and the money-changers sitting there. And making a whip of cords, he drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and oxen. And he poured out the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables. And he told those who sold the pigeons, “Take these things away; do not make my Father's house a house of trade.” (ESV)

In the Temple area he saw merchants selling cattle, sheep, and doves for sacrifices; he also saw dealers at tables exchanging foreign money. Jesus made a whip from some ropes and chased them all out of the Temple. He drove out the sheep and cattle, scattered the money changers’ coins over the floor, and turned over their tables. Then, going over to the people who sold doves, he told them, “Get these things out of here. Stop turning my Father’s house into a marketplace!” (NLT)

Here is the the Interlinear text for John 2:15 that can be found on BibleHub:

mneychangers greek.jpg


In reading these various translations, is there really any evidence that Jesus used a whip on people or that He ever intended to?

This same story is told in Matthew 21:12; Mark 11:15; Luke 19:45, and there is no mention of a whip anywhere.

Based on the teachings of Jesus found in the Sermon on the Mount and those that can be found through out the remainder of the New Testament; does violently using a whip on people even sound like something Jesus would do?

Which makes more sense? Jesus whipping people to drive people out of the temple, or Jesus using a whip in the same way a cattle or sheep herder would use it to herd animals out of the temple?
 
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Tellyontellyon

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Below are a few popular translations of the incident at the market place you are referring to as it is recorded in John 2:13-16:

(He) found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables; And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise. (KJV)

In the temple courts he found people selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. To those who sold doves he said, “Get these out of here! Stop turning my Father’s house into a market!” (NIV)

He found in the temple those who were selling oxen and sheep and doves, and the money changers seated at their tables. And He made a scourge of cords, and drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen; and He poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables; and to those who were selling the doves He said, “Take these things away; stop making My Father’s house a place of business.” (NASB)

He found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: and he made a scourge of cords, and cast all out of the temple, both the sheep and the oxen; and he poured out the changers’ money, and overthrew their tables; and to them that sold the doves he said, Take these things hence; make not my Father’s house a house of merchandise. (ASV)

In the temple he found those who were selling oxen and sheep and pigeons, and the money-changers sitting there. And making a whip of cords, he drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and oxen. And he poured out the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables. And he told those who sold the pigeons, “Take these things away; do not make my Father's house a house of trade.” (ESV)

In the Temple area he saw merchants selling cattle, sheep, and doves for sacrifices; he also saw dealers at tables exchanging foreign money. Jesus made a whip from some ropes and chased them all out of the Temple. He drove out the sheep and cattle, scattered the money changers’ coins over the floor, and turned over their tables. Then, going over to the people who sold doves, he told them, “Get these things out of here. Stop turning my Father’s house into a marketplace!” (NLT)

Here is the the Interlinear text for John 2:15 that can be found on BibleHub:

View attachment 343698

In reading these various translations, is there really any evidence that Jesus used a whip on people or that He ever intended to?

This same story is told in Matthew 21:12; Mark 11:15; Luke 19:45, and there is no mention of a whip anywhere.

Based on the teachings of Jesus found in the Sermon on the Mount and those that can be found through out the remainder of the New Testament; does violently using a whip on people even sound like something Jesus would do?

Which makes more sense? Jesus whipping people to drive people out of the temple, or Jesus using a whip in the same way a cattle or sheep herder would use it to herd animals out of the temple?
It does say he drove the 'ALL' out...
And when you drive cattle, they are sometimes whipped...? He has a whip in his hand.. so it sounds like he was using it on both people and animals...

If we are going down the route of saying that it only appears in one of the gospels... Well if you take that approach, then the very basis of Trinitarian theology may unravel!
 
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eleos1954

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Jesus seems to consistently put forth the instruction to be peaceful and not respond in kind to violence or domination...
But then we have the thing at the temple where he is whipping people.

How should a Christian conduct themselves in the face of a threat?

Can they defend themselves? Or can violence only be used to defend the 'temple', the church, God's word etc.?
No where does it state Jesus whipped people ... nor animals for that matter.

The Bible never forbids self-defense, and believers are allowed to defend themselves and their families. But the fact that we are permitted to defend ourselves does not necessarily mean we must do so in every situation.

Romans 12:18​

If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men.

Hard to be at peace is somebody is attacking you.
 
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Aussie Pete

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Jesus seems to consistently put forth the instruction to be peaceful and not respond in kind to violence or domination...
But then we have the thing at the temple where he is whipping people.

How should a Christian conduct themselves in the face of a threat?

Can they defend themselves? Or can violence only be used to defend the 'temple', the church, God's word etc.?
"Turn the other cheek" is not to do with violence. You've likely heard the the expression, "A slap in the face". It is an insult. In those days, a slap in the face was considered the ultimate insult. Slaves were known to commit suicide because their master slapped them. Jesus was saying not to react to insults. I had a dispute with a neighbour over her dog. She allowed it to bark day and night. Early one morning, I went to confront her and told her to shut the dog up. And not especially politely. Eventually, the local council intervened and things settled down.

I saw the woman in a pet supplies shop. She told me that I would die soon. I did not react, although I was tempted to say that her dog would die first. I've been threatened with violence only once in my Christian life. I was able to talk my way out of it, by the grace of God. He ended up in prison for assault. This was while I was in the Navy.
 
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Tellyontellyon

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"Turn the other cheek" is not to do with violence. You've likely heard the the expression, "A slap in the face". It is an insult. In those days, a slap in the face was considered the ultimate insult. Slaves were known to commit suicide because their master slapped them. Jesus was saying not to react to insults. I had a dispute with a neighbour over her dog. She allowed it to bark day and night. Early one morning, I went to confront her and told her to shut the dog up. And not especially politely. Eventually, the local council intervened and things settled down.

I saw the woman in a pet supplies shop. She told me that I would die soon. I did not react, although I was tempted to say that her dog would die first. I've been threatened with violence only once in my Christian life. I was able to talk my way out of it, by the grace of God. He ended up in prison for assault. This was while I was in the Navy.
I would say it is not only to do with violence, but seems to me, to include violence. A physical slap seems to be within the definition you gave.
God knows everything and nothing happens without him allowing it to happen (though that doesn't mean approval). Your eternal soul is clearly the important thing.
The early Christians didn't seek death and tried to avoid it, for sure....
But they didn't seem too scared of it either. Even though many faced a grusome end.
 
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DragonFox91

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In Jewish custom, in a court of law, the accuser would strike the accused's cheek when making an accusation. As a symbolic gesture.

'Turn the other cheek' means when you are being accused of something, you accept you're being accused, you don't bring blind accusations against your accusor, you admit any guilt, & you trust God to the outcome.

It's not the same as sitting on your hands when a direct injustice is being done.
 
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