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Turkey is part of Europe. Fear keeps it out of the EU
- Thread starter Yusuf Evans
- Start date
fear is not a bad feeling. fear is what make us be alert.
have a look at the following article regarding the assimilation of Turks in Austria. it seems that muslim Turks have great difficulty in the assimilation of European culture.
by assimilation we don't mean "extinction" but acceptance of the country's culture, law etc.
link
MONDAY, JANUARY 25, 2010
Majority of Turks in Austria wants Sharia
Translation
Fully integrated democrats, they are indeed, allegedly: A study commissioned by the Austrian Interior Ministry is now revealed that for nearly three quarters of Turks living in Austria, the precepts of Islam are more important than democracy. Over half of respondents want the introduction of Sharia law.
The Bayernkurier writes:
Also in the neighboring country of Austria created the integration of Turkish immigrants difficult. A new study shows alarming: More than half of Austrian Turks like to see the introduction of the cruel Sharia law.
If under discussion in Austria on the theme of integration, Turkish immigrants often find themselves in a victim role. "The racism manifests itself day by day," citing the Vienna daily Die Presse that day a self-styled experts on migration. The question of whether the majority society of immigrants can expect to learn the language, the Constitution and the culture if not already play, then at least to accept, is opposed for many Turks in Austria, hardly. It is enough for them to have a bogeyman that the we can offload all the deficits.
(...)
More than half of the approximately 220,000 Turkish-descended immigrants - 2.65 percent of Austria's population of 8.3 million - required by the Austrian judicial system in all seriousness, the introduction of Islamic law, ie the Shariah. For almost three quarters (72 percent), the observance of the commandments of the religion is more important than democracy. Laws and regulations of the religion for 57 percent of Turks are more important than that of Austria. And almost half of the Turkish immigrants say that crime in Austria is caused by democracy.
This also leads to the study: young Turks developed a strong tendency to sub-culture, they feel more committed to Islam as the society in which they live - and this despite the fact they were born, in most cases carried out in Austria and grew up there. Thus 45 percent of Turks profess a lack of understanding with the Austrian society, their way of life and dominant values. And about half of the Turkish people feel more committed to the old country than Austria. 55 percent are opposed to a son or daughter of a non-Turkish marriage partner.
Of particular interest - and these are allegations the Turkish-speakers are refuting - is the fact that other immigrants living in Austria, 1.4 million foreigners - have much less problems with integration. While the Turks feel integrated in only 26 percent, the figure for Poland, for example, 53 percent. This may be related also with the media consumption: 76 percent of Turks see almost daily Turkish television, only 30 percent to zap the ORF.
... In fact, in Austria there are no "foreigner problem", but it did have a problem with Turkish immigrants.
To complement this picture of the Turkish mentality by a survey that was conducted with the support of the EU regarding a Jewish community, not in Austria but in Turkey. Then reject it four out of ten Turks who live next to a Jew, about one third would have no Christian neighbors. More than half of the Muslim Turks opposes the employment of non-Muslims in the Turkish judiciary, the army, the police or the Secret Service from. And more than 40 percent were against it, that Jews and Christians in science or health care are represented in important positions.
Not enough yet: 57% of Turks would not want an atheist as a neighbor, 20% reject in principle foreigners as neighbors. Even Deputy Prime Minister Bulent Arinc, described the poll results are appalling, not least in view of the desired EU membership. From the man who is often called a "moderate" Premier Erdogan he did not appear to have been listening.
have a look at the following article regarding the assimilation of Turks in Austria. it seems that muslim Turks have great difficulty in the assimilation of European culture.
by assimilation we don't mean "extinction" but acceptance of the country's culture, law etc.
link
MONDAY, JANUARY 25, 2010
Majority of Turks in Austria wants Sharia
Translation
Fully integrated democrats, they are indeed, allegedly: A study commissioned by the Austrian Interior Ministry is now revealed that for nearly three quarters of Turks living in Austria, the precepts of Islam are more important than democracy. Over half of respondents want the introduction of Sharia law.
The Bayernkurier writes:
Also in the neighboring country of Austria created the integration of Turkish immigrants difficult. A new study shows alarming: More than half of Austrian Turks like to see the introduction of the cruel Sharia law.
If under discussion in Austria on the theme of integration, Turkish immigrants often find themselves in a victim role. "The racism manifests itself day by day," citing the Vienna daily Die Presse that day a self-styled experts on migration. The question of whether the majority society of immigrants can expect to learn the language, the Constitution and the culture if not already play, then at least to accept, is opposed for many Turks in Austria, hardly. It is enough for them to have a bogeyman that the we can offload all the deficits.
(...)
More than half of the approximately 220,000 Turkish-descended immigrants - 2.65 percent of Austria's population of 8.3 million - required by the Austrian judicial system in all seriousness, the introduction of Islamic law, ie the Shariah. For almost three quarters (72 percent), the observance of the commandments of the religion is more important than democracy. Laws and regulations of the religion for 57 percent of Turks are more important than that of Austria. And almost half of the Turkish immigrants say that crime in Austria is caused by democracy.
This also leads to the study: young Turks developed a strong tendency to sub-culture, they feel more committed to Islam as the society in which they live - and this despite the fact they were born, in most cases carried out in Austria and grew up there. Thus 45 percent of Turks profess a lack of understanding with the Austrian society, their way of life and dominant values. And about half of the Turkish people feel more committed to the old country than Austria. 55 percent are opposed to a son or daughter of a non-Turkish marriage partner.
Of particular interest - and these are allegations the Turkish-speakers are refuting - is the fact that other immigrants living in Austria, 1.4 million foreigners - have much less problems with integration. While the Turks feel integrated in only 26 percent, the figure for Poland, for example, 53 percent. This may be related also with the media consumption: 76 percent of Turks see almost daily Turkish television, only 30 percent to zap the ORF.
... In fact, in Austria there are no "foreigner problem", but it did have a problem with Turkish immigrants.
To complement this picture of the Turkish mentality by a survey that was conducted with the support of the EU regarding a Jewish community, not in Austria but in Turkey. Then reject it four out of ten Turks who live next to a Jew, about one third would have no Christian neighbors. More than half of the Muslim Turks opposes the employment of non-Muslims in the Turkish judiciary, the army, the police or the Secret Service from. And more than 40 percent were against it, that Jews and Christians in science or health care are represented in important positions.
Not enough yet: 57% of Turks would not want an atheist as a neighbor, 20% reject in principle foreigners as neighbors. Even Deputy Prime Minister Bulent Arinc, described the poll results are appalling, not least in view of the desired EU membership. From the man who is often called a "moderate" Premier Erdogan he did not appear to have been listening.
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Kalevalatar
Supisuomalainen sisupussi
The actual study, sans spin, can be found here.
Whereas the majority of Turks see Religion and Democracy as Compatible.
Fifty-seven percent (57%) of Turks say that Shari'a should not be a source of legislation, 23% say Shari'a must be a source of legislation, but not the only source, while only 9% say Shari'a must be the only source of legislation.
As a point of comparison, almost half of Americans (46%) say the Bible must be one of the sources of legislation, and 9% believe it must be the only source. Interestingly, Turks (74%) are also more likely than Americans (65%) to say that religious leaders should have no direct role in the writing of national legislation.
It appears to be a quite common misperception among the "general" "majority" European public that Muslims/Muslim immigrants, being more religious than the avarage "Christian" in Europe, would be less patriotic-whatever.
Whereas the majority of Turks see Religion and Democracy as Compatible.
Fifty-seven percent (57%) of Turks say that Shari'a should not be a source of legislation, 23% say Shari'a must be a source of legislation, but not the only source, while only 9% say Shari'a must be the only source of legislation.
As a point of comparison, almost half of Americans (46%) say the Bible must be one of the sources of legislation, and 9% believe it must be the only source. Interestingly, Turks (74%) are also more likely than Americans (65%) to say that religious leaders should have no direct role in the writing of national legislation.
It appears to be a quite common misperception among the "general" "majority" European public that Muslims/Muslim immigrants, being more religious than the avarage "Christian" in Europe, would be less patriotic-whatever.
In other news, Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu of Turkey was invited to join EU foreign high chief Catherine Ashton and FMs Bernard Kouchner, France, Franco Frattini, Italy, Urmas Paet, Estonia, Miguel Moratinos, Spain, Carl Bildt, Sweden and Alexander Stubb, Finland, in the three-day informal European neighbourhood policy talks in Saariselkä last weekend, so it's not like the 70 million-strong important EU neighbour Turkey is being left out or "kept out". Norway was.
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T
tanzanos
Guest
You have obviously not attended some of the mosques in Europe where fundamentalism is the order of the day. How many Churches in Muslim countries call for a Holly war?
Yes the vast majority of Muslims in Europe are not fundamentalists nor wish to harm anyone but all it takes is a cartoon of Muhammad and a reporter is slain in Europe for his sacrilege! The mosques that are used to foment hatred should be closed. Otherwise I see no reason why they cannot live in peace with us!
Turkey on the other hand should not join the EU; Not because of the Muslim faith but because of the Turkish Governments policies! I do not need to remind you what those are do I?
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Kalevalatar
Supisuomalainen sisupussi
No, I have not. Have you?
I have, however, had the most unfortunate experience of attending a Christian church (well, "Christian" in name at least; this was in the Balkans) that preached and stoked open hatred toward their Muslim neighbours. Pretty much the most disgusting experience ever for me as a Christian. So not what my Lord Jesus Christ stands for.
Well, don't keep guessing. How many exactly, in hard numbers? As opposed to how many mosques in Muslim countries that do not? Rather than apply the broad brush, I would also want to know the definition of "holy war" as too often jihad gets misunderstood.
Neither the current Turkish government nor their current policies are 'carved in stone' anymore than ours are. As I already said, Turkey abolished death penalty to meet EU membership standards, which is a positive step forward. However, as long as Turkey refuses to recognize Cyprus, Turkey cannot join EU. Thus, I don't categorically reject Turkey's membership a la "Turkey can never join EU!" Sure Turkey can -- if the Turks are willing to meet our requirements.
For me, it's not just a question of what Turkey can do for us (70 million strong young market and growing), but what the EU can do for Turkey. EU -- our "European values" -- to my mind, is a force of good here. A carrot, if you will. As in: now, I don't think anyone would call Romania the poster democracy. However, Romania, in order to join EU, had to reform and tackle human rights issues, corruption, and such. Ditto Croatia, Serbia etc. Turkey is in the same boat -- or rather, quay, if you will excuse this cheap analogy
. Clean up your acts to meet our standards, and you are welcome aboard, so to speak.
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Turkey carried out genocide against Armenian Christians, and should not be allowed into the EU.
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ArnautDaniel
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Right, because with members like Germany the EU is all about excluding nations guilty of genocide from its membership.
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Turkey's welcome to join the EU as far as I'm concerned.
Wish we in Ireland could leave it.
Wish we in Ireland could leave it.
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Kalevalatar
Supisuomalainen sisupussi
Unlike, for instance, in the case of EU aspirant Serbia, when Belgrade is expected to prosecute those responsible for war crimes in order to meet the EU standards, the Armenian genocide is "history" in that it happened almost 100 years ago and those responsible are long dead. For EU's point of view, it is far more relevant how the present-day state of Turkey re-engages with her neighbours, Armenia included.
And, as ArnautDaniel points out, if genocide were a membership impediment, there would be no European Union, as genocide used to be a major European export item.
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TheNewWorldMan
phased plasma rifle in 40-watt range
The difference here is that Germany fully owns up to its past. The same cannot be said of Turkey.
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ArnautDaniel
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That's something coming from a citizen of a country which arguable doesn't fully own up to its past.
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Kalevalatar
Supisuomalainen sisupussi
I agree that we should not whitewash our past. I do also believe that today and future must take precedence over history that happened before our time. At the time when Turkey and Armenia are in the process of normalizing their relations, politizication of the issue does not advance reconciliation. I'm not saying that Turkey and Armenia should forget the issue, just that the timing is wrong. First things first.
Armenia and Turkey normalise ties
10 October 2009
Turkey and Armenia have signed a historic accord normalising relations after a century of hostility.
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Archaeopteryx
Wanderer
Unless NewWorldMan is unwilling to own up to his nation's past then that is irrelevant. You can't judge NewWorldMan as an individual on the basis of what his country does or does not fully own up to.
And his point still holds. Germany is willing to admit its past criminality. Is Turkey willing to acknowledge its own?
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