Trying to live forever is the worst thing you can do

[Tjufsen]

Lets`s say, that your theory, that the universe will just end dark and cold. If you actually managed to make yourself live forever, be invincible, wouldn`t you just be trapped in a dark universe forever, with nothing to do but explore dead planets? You might say there`s a heaven, but if not, you could end up in an eternal nightmare?

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

Lets`s say, that your theory, that the universe will just end dark and cold. If you actually managed to make yourself live forever, be invincible, wouldn`t you just be trapped in a dark universe forever, with nothing to do but explore dead planets? You might say there`s a heaven, but if not, you could end up in an eternal nightmare?

Umm, yeah. Terrifying thought experiment.

 

[Tjufsen]

Umm, yeah. Terrifying thought experiment.

Exactly^^

 

[friend of]

God will recreate the Universe before all the stars burn out. So no worries.

 

[dwb001]

From an atheist standpoint I would believe you to be correct in your idea.

Glad I ain't in that camp.

 

[AV1611VET]

From an atheist standpoint I would believe you to be correct in your idea.

Glad I ain't in that camp.

It'll be OK.

0°K, that is.

 

[partinobodycular]

You might say there`s a heaven, but if not, you could end up in an eternal nightmare?

The instant that you say eternal... I think nightmare. I don't care what you call it. Doing anything over and over again FOREVER would either have to involve an endless reset button or the brain capacity of a slug.

My guess... eternal doesn't mean unending, in fact I think the endings are exactly what makes eternity tolerable.

 

[jayem]

Why would anyone think s/he can live eternally? It's a preposterous notion, based on wishful thinking.

The old Bon Jovi song has it right:

"It's my life
And it's now or never
I ain't gonna live forever
I just want to live while I'm alive
(It's my life)"
My heart is like an open highway
Like Frankie said, "I did it my way"
I just want to live while I'm alive
'Cause it's my life..."

 

[Daniel9v9]

The Scriptures describe the new creation as a place without sorrow, pain, suffering, and death, but with eternal joy, love, and peace. Damnation, on the other hand, can be likened to an eternal nightmare. These realities are too difficult for our minds to fully comprehend, because the life that we know and experience is a mixed bag of good and evil, and it's difficult for us to grasp the concept of eternity or a timeless environment. But even though we can't fully understand it, we can understand it sufficiently and find whatever's good in our time as a foretaste of what is to come. And this good and perfect life God gives to us for free, through His Son Jesus Christ, according to His love and grace. He promises us that whoever believes in Him and is baptised will be saved, but that whoever does not believe will be condemned.

 

[d taylor]

Lets`s say, that your theory, that the universe will just end dark and cold. If you actually managed to make yourself live forever, be invincible, wouldn`t you just be trapped in a dark universe forever, with nothing to do but explore dead planets? You might say there`s a heaven, but if not, you could end up in an eternal nightmare?

Oh you do not have to try a live for ever, all people God created will live forever. It just depends on the location where you will spend eternity. Either the lake of fire with satan or on the new earth with God.

 

[d taylor]

-
​

Just like now in this life, we are permanently separated from our present earthly physical body at death.

The unbeliever will be permanently separated from the life of God at the great white throne judgment when they are not found to be in the book of life. This is known as the second death.

*actually the unbeliever is permanently separated from the life of God at the very moment of their physical earthly death. The great white throne is basically for establishing their place in the lake of fire. As an unbeliever who live a good life, will not experience what an unbeliever who lived an evil life does.

 

[partinobodycular]

Oh you do not have to try a live for ever, all people God created will live forever. It just depends on the location where you will spend eternity. Either the lake of fire with satan or on the new earth with God.

When I was younger I had no problem imagining hell... the classic description of eternal fire and brimstone got the point across quite nicely, but imagining heaven was a completely different story. I still can't envision heaven and ascribing it to a beatific vision only makes it sound like God is some kind of psychotropic drug. Great... so I'm supposed to be looking forward to spending eternity doped up... no thank you... I think I'd rather take my chances with hell.

Now that I'm older hell doesn't scare me so much. Life has taught me not to mind the trials and tribulations, and I'd much rather have those than a life of mindless eternal bliss. Give me a challenge in the afterlife. A mountain to be climbed, an obstacle to be overcome, and a foe to be vanquished. Give me a quest, one in which death is a very real possibility, and if someone or something should bring me back, let me do it again.

To me stories of heaven and hell are simply tales told to constrain the unruly and mollify the weary. And whether they're born of the hand of God or of man doesn't matter. If I die... then I die, but if I should live again, let me rise and fight on, and kindly leave the mindless bliss to others. If they find peace there... so be it. I wish them well... meanwhile I shall be charging headlong into hell.

 

[Halbhh]

Lets`s say, that your theory, that the universe will just end dark and cold. If you actually managed to make yourself live forever, be invincible, wouldn`t you just be trapped in a dark universe forever, with nothing to do but explore dead planets? You might say there`s a heaven, but if not, you could end up in an eternal nightmare?

Certainly in this world (this physics, this universe), wanting to here live tens or hundreds of billions of years or forever indeed would not be a good idea for us as we are here in this universe (this particular one, this particular physics here).

We are not the originator/designer Who can create a new physics, create a truly new 'heaven and earth' that is unlike this universe...

(to help if someone isn't sure what I meant, I'm referring to an entirely new universe, not this one... that means a differing physics also, not identical in every way to this one, we could guess is likely also; this is one reasonable guess at what the "new heavens and new Earth" of scripture might involve)

Also, when trying to think on a life after this one, think different. Different conscious state (you could read up on "peak experiences" to get some hint of how many different states of mind are possible (we have very many here already even in this short life)
I'm writing another post about this just below -- different states of consciousness are quite real we already know, and wonderful... more below in that new post.

 

[trophy33]

Lets`s say, that your theory, that the universe will just end dark and cold. If you actually managed to make yourself live forever, be invincible, wouldn`t you just be trapped in a dark universe forever, with nothing to do but explore dead planets? You might say there`s a heaven, but if not, you could end up in an eternal nightmare?

You can, with enough of knowledge and advanced technology, move to different dimensions, time or universes. At some point, you would probably need to transform/get rid of your physical body.

 

[Halbhh]

The instant that you say eternal... I think nightmare. I don't care what you call it. Doing anything over and over again FOREVER would either have to involve an endless reset button or the brain capacity of a slug.

My guess... eternal doesn't mean unending, in fact I think the endings are exactly what makes eternity tolerable.

Think different consciousness -- you can read about about different states of consciousness even if you haven't experienced any of those -- which can include timelessness, transcendence, europhia, altered consciousness -- just as reported in accounts from diverse cultures/viewpoints/individuals (from around the world).

So, it's only factual that different states of mind that aren't like those we all normally have do exist.

For me, that's not only a theory, as I've personally experienced some different states of mind that are unusual due to things like Transcendental Meditation, and other ways. So, it's only factual that altered states of consciousness exist. (it's not a hypothesis, but a fact)


Ergo, logically then, timelessness, and very many new and higher experiences (states of mind, new types of music, arts, interactions, and so on) are the least to expect in a better and longer life. Based even on what I've already experienced, I can see that far more is possible for consciousness. Ergo, multiply that by hundreds of millions or even billions of unique individuals contributing, and the possibilities become practically endless in that having experienced thousands of good experiences, I very likely would like to come back to some and do them again, and so we could expect combinations and permutations even of already known things, in addition to new things. (Another interesting consideration is a very literal translation of wording in the bible refers to an "age to come" which suggests (my speculation) perhaps something of very long but finite duration, like say the duration of a given universe within certain conditions that are advantageous (until that universe needs replacing), and then there would be a change (perhaps to another new subsequent 'age to come' after that one, one might wonder).

 

[d taylor]

When I was younger I had no problem imagining hell... the classic description of eternal fire and brimstone got the point across quite nicely, but imagining heaven was a completely different story. I still can't envision heaven and ascribing it to a beatific vision only makes it sound like God is some kind of psychotropic drug. Great... so I'm supposed to be looking forward to spending eternity doped up... no thank you... I think I'd rather take my chances with hell.

Now that I'm older hell doesn't scare me so much. Life has taught me not to mind the trials and tribulations, and I'd much rather have those than a life of mindless eternal bliss. Give me a challenge in the afterlife. A mountain to be climbed, an obstacle to be overcome, and a foe to be vanquished. Give me a quest, one in which death is a very real possibility, and if someone or something should bring me back, let me do it again.

To me stories of heaven and hell are simply tales told to constrain the unruly and mollify the weary. And whether they're born of the hand of God or of man doesn't matter. If I die... then I die, but if I should live again, let me rise and fight on, and kindly leave the mindless bliss to others. If they find peace there... so be it. I wish them well... meanwhile I shall be charging headlong into hell.

Never said any thing about heaven, believers will live on the earth. Which will be recreated for humans to live on, just like they are doing now, except for there will be no death or sin.

 

[partinobodycular]

Think different consciousness -- you can read about about different states of consciousness even if you haven't experienced any of those -- which can include timelessness, transcendence, europhia, altered consciousness -- just as reported in accounts from diverse cultures/viewpoints/individuals (from around the world).

So, it's only factual that different states of mind that aren't like those we all normally have do exist.

For me, that's not only a theory, as I've personally experienced some different states of mind that are unusual due to things like Transcendental Meditation, and other ways. So, it's only factual that altered states of consciousness exist. (it's not a hypothesis, but a fact)

Sorry, but that's exactly the kind of euphoria that I don't want. No greater love has any man but that he lay down his life for a friend, and no greater debt has he but that a friend lay his life down for him. That's what I would want from eternity... a life with purpose... not a life with euphoria. I want compassion born of struggle, empathy born of sorrow, and mercy born of forgiveness. Don't give me bliss... I want far greater things than bliss.

If you're happy with euphoria... great. I just can't help but wonder what you'll be missing out on.

 

[partinobodycular]

Which will be recreated for humans to live on, just like they are doing now, except for there will be no death or sin.

I have no fear of death or sin, they only serve to teach me the value of life, and friendship, and compassion, and forgiveness... you see something to be shunned, I see something to be borne, like a tattered old coat or a half hidden scar... not the prettiest of things, but oh the stories they can tell, about where I've come from, and where I've yet to go.

Don't give me a perfect world... give me some scars and tattered old coats. I'll be much the better for having had them.

 

[Halbhh]

Sorry, but that's exactly the kind of euphoria that I don't want. No greater love has any man but that he lay down his life for a friend, and no greater debt has he but that a friend lay his life down for him. That's what I would want from eternity... a life with purpose... not a life with euphoria. I want compassion born of struggle, empathy born of sorrow, and mercy born of forgiveness. Don't give me bliss... I want far greater things than bliss.

If you're happy with euphoria... great. It just can't help but wonder what you'll be missing out on.

?

(just in case it matters, let's get the standard definition of euphoria: "a feeling or state of intense excitement and happiness.")

Now....what did I say about it?

Did I say that I want only euphoria and nothing of God? No purpose, etc., like you wrote: ""If you're happy with euphoria... great. It just can't help but wonder what you'll be missing out on."

No.

I was illustrating that we know that other states of consciousness that are unusual exist in considerable variety -- that are rare for us to experience, but nevertheless exist! -- demonstrating a good reason why the idea that an eternity would become monotonous or boring is not very reasonable a conjecture . Why not? Because there exist other states of consciousness, some rare and exceptionally enjoyable in wide variety even...perhaps in unlimited number....

So, every idea that suggests heaven would become old makes no sense then, rationally, since God is able to create new things, and we already factually know many various different states of consciousness exist we don't even individually know about.....



Ok, I hope that makes you read more carefully now and not jump to conclusions about what I say without more careful reading.... blame it on me: I write as if people have read my last 2 or 3 posts too often and/or will draw inferences that I long ago began to take for granted.

 

[Halbhh]

I want compassion born of struggle, empathy born of sorrow, and mercy born of forgiveness. Don't give me bliss... I want far greater things than bliss.

That's not an either/or.
(e.g. -- if you eat a meal, you can still listen to great music also; one doesn't diminish the other, but instead they can (and often do) complement each other)


Just to be sure you aren't thinking of some entirely other thing other than what 'bliss' actually refers to, let me give the definition on it:

Bliss: "perfect happiness; great joy."

Having " compassion born of struggle, empathy born of sorrow, and mercy born of forgiveness." is a very good desire!

Kudos on that.

That's why we might eventually be so full of joy -- to have 'bliss': perfect happiness; great joy -- because we are letting go of our own wrongs, and choosing the goodness of Christ, who showed the greatest compassion of all....