Truth and Deceptions

Jess347 said:

Where in scripture does it say that God has stopped speaking to people?

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God does speak to people through the Bible. I do not believe God is speaking to people with an actual audible voice, like How He spoke to Moses for an example. Or how Jesus walked among humanity for 30 some odd years. Is there a verse that says this no. so go believe what you want. I will stick with learning about God through His given word (revelations, Genesis-Revelation)

d taylor said:

God does speak to people through the Bible. I do not believe God is speaking to people with an actual audible voice, like How He spoke to Moses for an example. Or how Jesus walked among humanity for 30 some odd years. Is there a verse that says this no. so go believe what you want. I will stick with learning about God through His given word (revelations, Genesis-Revelation)

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Point 1: I have heard God's voice directly on two occasions. It wasn't an actual audible voice but a knowledge that someone spoke to me. Think about what happens when your hear someone: when the sound goes away in an instant you still have the knowledge of what was said.

Point 2: Do you really think that Jesus didn't "walk among humanity for 30 some odd years"? Do you think that the four gospels are all fiction? (Or more literally: how He walked? Probably upright on two feet *^)

pescador said:

Point 1: I have heard God's voice directly on two occasions. It wasn't an actual audible voice but a knowledge that someone spoke to me. Think about what happens when your hear someone: when the sound goes away in an instant you still have the knowledge of what was said.

Point 2: Do you really think that Jesus didn't "walk among humanity for 30 some odd years"? Do you think that the four gospels are all fiction? (Or more literally: how He walked? Probably upright on two feet *^)

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No i do not believe Jesus is appearing and walking around somewhere on earth. Like He did for 30 years, some 2000 years ago.

He did one time appear to Paul (Acts 23) but again that is part of the Bible and can be believed.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in HIM should not perish, but have everlasting life.

A ‘loving’ Jesus? gentle meek and mild?
Read the Gospels again!
John 2:13-22
Matthew 21:12
Matthew 23:13
Matthew 23:16
Matthew 23:33

Jess347 said:

There was no mention of Jesus walking around in present day.
It was God communicating with people directly in the present that was mentioned/questioned.

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Jess347 said:

There was no mention of Jesus walking around in present day.
It was God communicating with people directly in the present that was mentioned/questioned.

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Well i just wanted to cover all areas, because the Bible states many false christ can be expected to be coming.

Jess347 said:

Where in scripture does it say that God has stopped speaking to people?

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I agree. We are in a relationship with God. Prayer really means relating to God. And in any good relationship there has to be a two-way communication. This doesn't have to be in actual words - just think of a relationship between deaf people for example - but both parties need to communicate the fact that they love and value the other "person". A book, even though God breathed, does not seem to me enough somehow.

Psalm 27 said:

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in HIM should not perish, but have everlasting life.

A ‘loving’ Jesus? gentle meek and mild?
Read the Gospels again!
John 2:13-22
Matthew 21:12
Matthew 23:13
Matthew 23:16
Matthew 23:33

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I don't see the connection here. What does the first part of your post have to do with the second part? John 3:16 is entirely separate (obviously) from the other (out of context) verses you cited.

pescador said:

I don't see the connection here. What does the first part of your post have to do with the second part? John 3:16 is entirely separate (obviously) from the other (out of context) verses you cited.

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God loves those who believe in Jesus. That’s it!
The few verses were aimed at the thread starter, who said that Jesus was different to the God of the O/T (even though Jesus is the image of the invisible God).

The verses relate to how abrupt Jesus was with non-believers. Warning them of their future fate-hell!
Not very lovey dovey.

Jesus’ love was demonstrated by His sacrifice, for HIS believers.

Psalm 27 said:

God loves those who believe in Jesus. That’s it!
The few verses were relating to how abrupt Jesus was with non-believers. Warning them of their future fate-hell!
Not very lovey dovey is it?

Jesus’ love was demonstrated by His sacrifice, for believers.

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Jesus' love was far greater. He paid for the sins of his enemies who hated him. So God could justly forgive them and give them new believing hearts that hate sin and love God. If they had anything worth dying for, they would rob God of his glory.

Dave L said:

Jesus' love was far greater. He paid for the sins of his enemies who hated him. So God could justly forgive them and give them new believing hearts that hate sin and love God. If they had anything worth dying for, they would rob God of his glory.

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Agreed, but they must believe in Him, yes? What about Judas?
Ps. I was His greatest enemy

Psalm 27 said:

Agreed, but they must believe in Him, yes? What about Judas?
Ps. I was His greatest enemy

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The truth is they cannot believe. They cannot discern the true Christ. But hate every mention of him just like today. God's love paid for our sins while we were yet sinners. Why aren't all saved? He died only for the church, his body.

Jess347 said:

There is a big difference between being abrupt and giving warning of the fate of hell and insturcuting humans to kill villages of people who don't believe or commit wrong doings... seem like orders and statements from different beings.

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Some could make the same argument about the villages of Sodom and Gomorrah or perhaps the villages around Noah while he was building the Ark before God destroyed the world, but truthfully only God knows what these people were doing to receive his judgements so you can't say these peoples were not doing anything wrong. Some of these peoples even use to sacrifice children to false God's, practice rape, sodomy, stealing and murder etc.. Is that the kind of society you would want to encourage and live in?

Mankind was originally made in the image of God. Sin is the cause of separation from God and the cause for all the suffering we have in the world today. The scriptures state these people were "exceedingly sinful" and God regretted that he had made man. Sin and suffering was never the purpose of God's plan for mankind. Keep in mind God also used his people in the Old Covenant also to administer His judgements to the nations who rejected God and were exceedingly sinful. The wages of sin is death to those who reject God as sin is the opposite of what God is. God is love. The origin of sin is selfishness and this is why we need God's salvation because all we are and all we can do without JESUS is sin because we are selfish.

God's salvation for mankind is from sin and selfishness and God is coming to put an end to it. God's judgements are over sin because this is the cause of all evil and suffering and brings death and was never the purpose of God's plan of creation. The old and the new testaments I see are in perfect harmony. God is a God of justice and judgement and also a God of love and mercy to those who call on him revealed in JESUS where God sent his only begotten son that whosoever believes on him should not perish but have everlasting life. No one can see God's love for mankind without first understanding God's justice and judgements and abhorrence for sin because of the suffering it brings. God loves the sinner but hates the sin because of all the suffering and misery it brings to His creation.

If there was no sin or judgement for sin, JESUS would not have to die and yet this is where we see the greatest love for all mankind. God did not have to die for our sins but was not willing that any should perish but came as our sinless creator to die the death that we deserve to die so that we might be reconciled to God and now all I see is God's love. Jesus came into the world to save sinners of who I am chief. Make no mistake God hates sin but loves the sinner. He never forces us to follow him. We are given the choice. All will choose who they believe and follow.

All sin and those who reject God will be destroyed come judgement day where God makes a new heaven and a new earth where there will be no more sin and suffering and mankind will be restored back into the image of God where he was originally created. There is a storm coming and it has started raining today. JESUS is coming and when they shall cry peace and safety, sudden destruction is coming to those who do not believe and follow God's Word. It is because God is love that he is a consuming fire to sin. It is sin and selfishness that is the cause of all the sufferings of mankind. Reading your thread it seem you are being influenced by the arguments of atheism that does not know God or the God of the bible. Is this true? That in itself is a whole other religion designed to turn people away from God and His Word.

God bless

Psalm 27 said:

God loves those who believe in Jesus. That’s it!
The few verses were aimed at the thread starter, who said that Jesus was different to the God of the O/T (even though Jesus is the image of the invisible God).

The verses relate to how abrupt Jesus was with non-believers. Warning them of their future fate-hell!
Not very lovey dovey.

Jesus’ love was demonstrated by His sacrifice, for HIS believers.

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May I remind you of John 3:16-17? "For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world should be saved through him. "

Jess347 said:

Hi All,

Any Christians on here think there may be truth and lies worked into the religion and the bible itself?
Or do you believe the bible to be all truth?

I look forward to hearing your thoughts...

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The Bible is the Word of God - it accurate depicts the lies Satan was telling in Gen 3 and the Truth God was telling in Genesis 1 and 2.

Jess347 said:

But the penalty and act of carrying out the punishment for sin changed dramatically between the New and Old.

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One is a theocracy ... (OT .. time from Moses to end of OT text)
One is not -- (All of the NT)

A theocracy is a government where God is King and the Laws are His, Sin is rebellion against the King and gross sin is treason. In a theocracy God protects the nation and defeats its enemies - and dictates its rules.

But outside the theocracy it is a different story. Not only is God not taking the helm but Christians are slandered, persecuted, martyred and God is not dictating the death penalty for blasphemy or Sabbath breaking or worship of false gods or coveting etc.

The Gospel however brings up the point that for the sin of coveting - one dies - in fact... the lake of fire.

Romans 6:23 - "For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Jess347 said:

⬆️the punishment for sin, is not receiving eternal life in the kingdom of heaven, not to be murdered by man.

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On the contrary - the punishment in Rom 6:23 is the second death mentioned in Rev 20 - roasted alive in fire and brimstone - lake of fire. And that means any sin -- including thought crimes like "coveting" see Romans 7.

All the wicked in both OT and NT (many billions) - are resurrected in Rev 20 and roasted alive in the lake of fire. Far more will be slain in executive judgment (many billions) in the NT than in all of the OT combined.

Jesus said in John 11 - (after Lazarus suffered a slow painful death of sickness ) that this does not even count at all. That the second death is so much worse that Lazarus's death is not considered real death in God's eyes.

In the lake of fire "both body and soul" are destroyed in fire and brimstone Matt 10:28 -- but each person suffers in proportion to their evil deeds.

Luke 12:47 And that slave who knew his master’s will and did not get ready or act in accordance with his will, will receive many blows, 48 but the one who did not know it, and committed acts deserving of a beating, will receive only a few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.

Jess347 said:

There is a big difference between being abrupt and giving warning of the fate of hell and insturcuting humans to kill villages of people who don't believe or commit wrong doings... seem like orders and statements from different beings.

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Unbelievers perished then, they still do

Dave L said:

The truth is they cannot believe. They cannot discern the true Christ. But hate every mention of him just like today. God's love paid for our sins while we were yet sinners. Why aren't all saved? He died only for the church, his body.

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Agreed, He didn’t come to save the righteous, but the lost-to set captives free