Truth and Deceptions

Loversofjesus_2018 · Nov 26, 2020

bèlla said:
Religion and politics have historically proven to be useful tools for controlling the masses. Do I put it pass anyone to diddle with the bible? Of course not. That’s the first thing they’d touch since none would suspect it.

Some would decry, God would never permit it. I’d remind them of the litany of horrors that exist and ask them to revisit that statement.

Does it change the reality of God and His majesty? No. Do I place my trust in human agents? Never.

Yours in His Service,

~bella

This is awesome!

Loversofjesus_2018 · Nov 26, 2020

Yarddog said:
I believe that the Bible is truth. It may or may not be literal fact but it is truth.

So your saying there may be things that scripture says happened that didn’t actually happen? That would make at least that part not truth right? Or no?

Sketcher · Nov 26, 2020

Jess347 said:
I just find that the old and new testament are extremely contradictory...
It seems like the Father that Christ taught about and the God of the old testament are very different beings...
Why do you think?

I don't.

Jess347 said:
But the penalty and act of carrying out the punishment for sin changed dramatically between the New and Old.

Romans 6:23 - "For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
the punishment for sin, is not receiving eternal life in the kingdom of heaven, not to be murdered by man.

New Testament
Psalms 145:20 - "The LORD preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy."
he will destroy.... not he will command man to destroy/kill and was done in the OT.

Matthew 25:46 - "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

Galatians 6:7 - "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."

2 Corinthians 5:10 - "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things [done] in [his] body, according to that he hath done, whether [it be] good or bad."

Luke 6:35-36
"But you must love your enemies and do good: and lend without expecting any return, and you will have a rich reward, you will be son of the most high, because he himself is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked."
there wasn't much kindness shown to the ungrateful and the wicked in the old testament...

Old Testament
Leviticus 26:14-46
“But if you will not listen to me and will not do all these commandments, if you spurn my statutes, and if your soul abhors my rules, so that you will not do all my commandments, but break my covenant, then I will do this to you: I will visit you with panic, with wasting disease and fever that consume the eyes and make the heart ache. And you shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it. I will set my face against you, and you shall be struck down before your enemies. Those who hate you shall rule over you, and you shall flee when none pursues you. And if in spite of this you will not listen to me, then I will discipline you again sevenfold for your sins, ..."

Chronicles 15:13-14
"and whoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman."

Deuteronomy 13:13-17
"And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock. You are to gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the Lord your God."

Isaiah 14:21
"Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities."

Deuteronomy 5:9
"You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,"
Huh???
Ezekiel 18:20
"The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself."

???

Psalms is in the Old Testament. This includes Psalm 103. But Acts 5 is in the New Testament. Same God in both Testaments, giving grace to some, and judgement to others.

Loversofjesus_2018 · Nov 26, 2020

ZagZig said:
I hold the bible to be the true and total inspired words of God.

However, I hold that all religions have errors and these are the seeds of dissension among those of different Christian faiths.

True and total inspired words but also with error? How can this be?

Psalm 27 · Nov 26, 2020

Jess347 said:
I just find that the old and new testament are extremely contradictory...
It seems like the Father that Christ taught about and the God of the old testament are very different beings...
Why do you think?

Read John’s gospel again. It’s always good to go back and re-read, you can see great differences in Jesus’ teaching the more often you read

For Eg. I’ve read John loads, but only recently saw that when Philip alerted Nathaniel about Jesus, they were already expecting ‘The One who Moses and the prophets spoke about’. The disciples were de-churched when Jesus arrived. That’s why He chose them-they had no ‘religious’ distractions
And they were already searching for Him

God bless

disciple Clint · Nov 26, 2020

Jess347 said:
Hi All,

Any Christians on here think there may be truth and lies worked into the religion and the bible itself?
Or do you believe the bible to be all truth?

I look forward to hearing your thoughts...

I do not think that the Holy Spirit lies but I do believe that there are translation errors in the Bible and obviously people interpret passages differently depending upon their Theology.

Psalm 27 · Nov 26, 2020

Jess347 said:
Hi All,

Any Christians on here think there may be truth and lies worked into the religion and the bible itself?
Or do you believe the bible to be all truth?

I look forward to hearing your thoughts...

Lies are wrought into religious doctrines (by humans).

The Lord used humans to write The Bible, but it was inspired by His H.S.

Jesus said that the H.S. Would bring everything which needed recording, into to the disciples minds.
Humankind is often errant.
The Bible is inerrant.

Dave L · Nov 26, 2020

Jess347 said:
Hi All,

Any Christians on here think there may be truth and lies worked into the religion and the bible itself?
Or do you believe the bible to be all truth?

I look forward to hearing your thoughts...

I believe the bible is true. But many take liberties with it trying to prove their lies.

bèlla · Nov 26, 2020

Loversofjesus_2018 said:
This is awesome!

Thank you.

The political threads are an excellent example of brainwashing in action. You can see the intersection of manipulation and belief. The ideologies are dependent on philosophies which must be true. If they’re wrong, the structure collapses.

People take great pains to defend their beliefs. The prospect of being wrong disturbs them. They’ve gone too far down the rabbit hole to turn around.

The bible had corrupt people. Some were men of faith. We live in a corrupt world. The bible was translated and maintained by human hands. The populace was illiterate. They relied on their leader’s honesty.

You can’t understand power through the eyes of the powerless. You must think like the puppet master. When you do, the if-then follows. The conflict and contradictions are laid bare. Then you grasp how many fall prey to movements and cults.

Susceptibility is the missing link. We rarely consider it in light of the things we champion. If you did, the possibility of error would be evident and you’d guard against it. But certainty prevents it.

Take the formula and replicate it and you have control.

Happy Thanksgiving.

Yours in His Service,

~bella

concretecamper · Nov 26, 2020

Aussie Pete said:
Lord Jesus confirmed that the Bible is the truth

Aussie Pete said:
Read the gospels. Lord Jesus said "It is written" many times. He also said that God's word is truth, John 17:17.

Humor me and quote me a single passage.

section9+1 · Nov 26, 2020

Isaiah 45:19

Cormack · Nov 26, 2020

Jess347 said:
It seems like the Father that Christ taught about and the God of the old testament are very different beings...

If you believe Christ is God in some sense, then I think it’s an easy fix between the Old Testament and the New Testament.

In the OT God’s on high, in power and judging often rowdy people. He’s seen from a distance in the OT, thunderbolts and lightning (very very frightening.)

In the NT God’s made Himself low, He’s in submission and judges nobody. We finally have insight into God by His son up close, beyond the veil, and seeing this we find out He’s not exactly the angry volcano God we feared.

God only keeps His distance to protect mankind, in the OT we originally asked for that distance out of fear. Christ comes and acts as our example of loving submission to one another, removing the fear and inviting us into Gods kingdom.

At the same time, there are many NT moments that appear to be very OT style. Jesus returning as a king to judge the entire world in Revelation is very old school Bible, His words of correction to the churches are harsh by our modern standards.

Some of Christ’s most loving material about accepting strangers is drawn from the OT book of Deuteronomy (of all places.)

tldr; my point is something like the NT is often more OT than we’d like to admit, and the OT is often more NT than we expected. Combined it’s a total story, being able to appreciate it as one long story is pretty cool.

PaulCyp1 · Nov 26, 2020

The Bible reveals truth when accurately and authoritatively interpreted. Which is why Jesus Christ founded just one Church, said it was to remain one, and promised that one Church the fullness of God's truth until the end of time. That one Church compiled the Bible under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and is the sold authoritative interpreter of its own book. Those who have attempted to interpret the Bible without the authority of His Church have fragmented into thousands of conflicting manmade denominations who can't agree with one another on the meaning of a single biblical passage, in just a few hundred years. Meanwhile, the one Church Jesus founded remains one in belief, one in teaching, one in worship, one in biblical understanding throughout the world after 2,000 years. You just can't beat God's plan.

Semper-Fi · Nov 26, 2020

concretecamper said:
Humor me and quote me a single passage.

It is written | YouVersion Search | The Bible App

Yarddog · Nov 26, 2020

Loversofjesus_2018 said:
So your saying there may be things that scripture says happened that didn’t actually happen?

Maybe.

Loversofjesus_2018 said:
That would make at least that part not truth right?

Nope. It depends on what message God was conveying.

zoidar · Nov 26, 2020

Loversofjesus_2018 said:
So your saying there may be things that scripture says happened that didn’t actually happen? That would make at least that part not truth right? Or no?

Yarddog said:
Maybe.

Nope. It depends on what message God was conveying.

I don't think the Bible always is literally true, but the message is always true. Are we to believe God walked around in the garden of Eden?

Gen 3:8
They heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day,

ZagZig · Nov 26, 2020

Loversofjesus_2018 said:
True and total inspired words but also with error? How can this be?

The bible has no errors. The man made religions that are founded on it... do.

Semper-Fi · Nov 26, 2020

the bible is truth

thy word is truth | YouVersion Search | The Bible App

Romans 3:4 (KJV)
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written,
That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome
when thou art judged.

concretecamper · Nov 26, 2020

Semper-Fi said:
the bible is truth

thy word is truth | YouVersion Search | The Bible App

Romans 3:4 (KJV)
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written,
That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome
when thou art judged.

bible isnt mentioned, sorry.

Let's not derail this.thread any further. Start a new post if you want to be taught about what the bible is and isnt.

ZagZig · Nov 26, 2020

[STAFF EDITED DELETED QUOTE]
In Jesus time there was no NT. However, Christ does quote what he called the "scriptures" and even defeated Satan with them and them alone. What he called the scriptures is what we call the OT Which is much of the bible.

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