Trump's trade agenda on the verge of imploding

[TLK Valentine]

Do taxes help people or make the situation worse? The fact is that every law, every tax, every bureaucratic proclamation hurts some people and helps other people.

Do the tariffs help the farmers or make their situation worse?

 

[Root of Jesse]

Is this supposed to be humor?

Fact. No government official creates jobs. As a government official, Donald Trump creates no jobs. As a business man, he created many jobs, employed many people. His policies now affect the business climate, which encourages or discourages business.

 

[TLK Valentine]

That's the best way to avoid paying the tariffs.

US companies don't go to China = China loses.
US companies don't return to America = America loses.

Where's the upside here?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Fact. No government official creates jobs. As a government official, Donald Trump creates no jobs. As a business man, he created many jobs, employed many people. His policies now affect the business climate, which encourages or discourages business.

Well, that just makes his current failures all the more embarrassing.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Fortunately (and of course, coincidentally), clothing items are exempt from the tariffs.

 

[Root of Jesse]

So where's the problem?

Government. The less I have to do with the government, the less effect they have on me. I consume as little as I can, so as not to contribute to the garbage problem, and the recycling problem. I save for my retirement. I buy clothes when I need them.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Well, that just makes his current failures all the more embarrassing.

I don't see many failures. But every man has failed at one time or another. In fact many times a day, more than likely.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Government. The less I have to do with the government, the less effect they have on me. I consume as little as I can, so as not to contribute to the garbage problem, and the recycling problem. I save for my retirement. I buy clothes when I need them.

And still our government hurts us with tariffs.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I don't see many failures. But every man has failed at one time or another. In fact many times a day, more than likely.

Well, nobody enjoys failure; least of all Donald.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Fact. No government official creates jobs. As a government official, Donald Trump creates no jobs. As a business man, he created many jobs, employed many people. His policies now affect the business climate, which encourages or discourages business.

Not only is that not a fact, it's an asinine right-wing talking point that's so easily falsifiable that all it takes to do so is to look at the government itself.

*points to DC*

Who are all those people working for the federal government? Do they get paid to be there? Yes? Who created those jobs?

*points to your state capitol*

Who are all those people working for your state government? Do they get paid to be there? Yes? Who created those jobs?

*points to your city hall*

Who are all those people working for your city government? Do they get paid to be there? Yes? Who created those jobs?

*points to afghanistan*

Who are all those people in uniforms carrying guns? Do they get paid to be there? Yes? Who created those jobs?

*points to airport*

Who are all those people in uniforms carrying guns? Do they get paid to be there? Yes? Who created those jobs?


All those jobs were created by government officials. On top of that, the federal government is a huge source of funding for scientific research, which also creates tons of jobs. On top of that, our comprehensive system of laws and justice enables the creation of millions more jobs.

 

[Root of Jesse]

And still our government hurts us with tariffs.

And taxes. And regulations.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Not only is that not a fact, it's an asinine right-wing talking point that's so easily falsifiable that all it takes to do so is to look at the government itself.

*points to DC*

Who are all those people working for the federal government? Do they get paid to be there? Yes? Who created those jobs?

*points to your state capitol*

Who are all those people working for your state government? Do they get paid to be there? Yes? Who created those jobs?

*points to your city hall*

Who are all those people working for your city government? Do they get paid to be there? Yes? Who created those jobs?

*points to afghanistan*

Who are all those people in uniforms carrying guns? Do they get paid to be there? Yes? Who created those jobs?

*points to airport*

Who are all those people in uniforms carrying guns? Do they get paid to be there? Yes? Who created those jobs?


All those jobs were created by government officials. On top of that, the federal government is a huge source of funding for scientific research, which also creates tons of jobs. On top of that, our comprehensive system of laws and justice enables the creation of millions more jobs.

Actually, the airlines create the jobs at the airport. I probably could have said 'productive' jobs. The point is that the government doesn't create productive jobs. Also, you and I pay for every one of those. Who pays for the cashier? Who creates the need for the cashier? Not the government. The government perceives a need and fills it. The government spends money. Doesn't make money.

 

[wing2000]

Speaking of the aircraft industry, the US Exports figures are about to take a huge hit due to the Boeing 737-MAX production stoppage. Boeing sells a lot of 737's to China....and with the current trade spat, the Chinese government could decide to order it's airlines to order from other non-US companies instead -- i.e. Airbus.

 

[essentialsaltes]

"I know the tariffs are hurting the ag industry," Gibbons said. "But at the same time, I know the president knows what he’s doing."

 

[iluvatar5150]

Actually, the airlines create the jobs at the airport.

They don't create the security jobs. Also, there's a case to be made that without the oversight provided by the FAA, the airlines would be creating far fewer jobs because air travel would be a lot more risky.

I probably could have said 'productive' jobs. The point is that the government doesn't create productive jobs.

That's also nonsense. The government is, if you will, in the business of providing services rather than goods. Services can be very productive. Doctors, lawyers, researchers, managers and administrators, businesses analysts, and a host of other professions provide services. Government mostly covers administration, regulation, and security, along with some health care. Those are all valuable and productive. If you don't think so, take a look at the economies of countries that don't have strong government institutions and strong legal systems - they're typically poor and very corrupt. The stability that enables us to be wealthy is a service that's provided directly and primarily by the government.

Also, you and I pay for every one of those. Who pays for the cashier?

We also pay for the cashier, unless you think Walmart installs them there as a courtesy.

Who creates the need for the cashier? Not the government.

Who funded the basic research needed to develop the materials and components in the product you just bought? Who built the highways on which the truck drove to deliver that product to the store? Who built the roads on which the cashier drove to get to that job? Who built the water line that feeds the plumbing in that store? Who developed the data communication systems that allow that store to communicate with the outside world? Who enforces the laws that lower the risk (and therefore the cost) of operating a store?

Not Walmart.

The government perceives a need and fills it.

Just like business.

The government spends money.

Just like business.

Doesn't make money.

Depends. No, it's not designed to turn a profit, but it even manages to do that on occasion. Regardless, the fact that it's not designed to turn a profit for itself doesn't mean that it doesn't create value. It just means that it doesn't retain the value for itself.

 

[Belk]

Fact. No government official creates jobs. As a government official, Donald Trump creates no jobs. As a business man, he created many jobs, employed many people. His policies now affect the business climate, which encourages or discourages business.

Apparently my job is not a job.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Apparently my job is not a job.

I've been hearing this talking point for decades and it's so ridiculous.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Speaking of the aircraft industry, the US Exports figures are about to take a huge hit due to the Boeing 737-MAX production stoppage. Boeing sells a lot of 737's to China....and with the current trade spat, the Chinese government could decide to order it's airlines to order from other non-US companies instead -- i.e. Airbus.

And yet the biggest user of the 737 MAX is still in the US. And if China wants to go that way, they would know that Airbus is second class to Boeing.

 

[FreeinChrist]

And taxes. And regulations.

Tariffs are a tax. They disproportionately tax lower and middle income folks.

When Walmart brings in items from China to sell, they pay the tariff - not China. Walmart then passes on the cost of the tariffs to the consumer - us.

That is one way the tariffs hurt.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Apparently my job is not a job.

There is a big difference between a government job and a private sector job. Government jobs are largely non-productive. That doesn't mean you don't do anything, just like non-profit doesn't mean you don't earn money. I've been on both sides. In a private sector job, if I'm not contributing to the growth of the company, I can lose my job. In a public sector job, it's practically impossible to lose your job.

Again, it's hilarious when people take something you said specifically, and try to apply it generally, or something you said generally, and try to apply it specifically.

There is no doubt that public sector employees provide services and take home a paycheck. And, having been one, I am grateful for that. But there's a difference between being an employer and being a bureaucrat.