Trump's trade agenda on the verge of imploding

[mark46]

Perhaps I wasn't clear.

I was not suggesting that we only buy American goods. I am simply suggesting that we have other choices than buying from China and paying Trump's new tax on Chinese goods. As you noted below, there are many other options, many from other countries in Asia.

of course not, but try to find American made products for everything you purchase

looking around husband's office here:
battery in phone-made in China
small sample purell from local college-made in China
Bose- made in China
Sony camera-made in China
little foam brush-made in China
portable heater-made in China
canon printer-made in Thailand
computer keyboard-made in China
child's easy bake oven sitting in office-food pkts made in US but all other components made in China & packaged in China
acurite humidity/temp-made in China
thinkfun CODE programming game-made in China
swivel chair-made in China
pure bristle paint brush-made in Indonesia
everbilt wire brads-made in Taiwan
pen refill in drawer-made in China
desk & cabinets- made in U.S (by husband)

 

[Desk trauma]

I doubt any liberal wants to admit that we need to bring back manufacturing jobs from china.

Bringing manufacturing back to the US will not result in many jobs returning with it. With the advancements in automation and AI in the near term even cheep labor will be unable to compete. Unless there are Luddite laws to go with the tariffs all forcing companies to manufacture in the US will accomplish is speeding automation.

 

[wing2000]

Perhaps I wasn't clear.

I was not suggesting that we only buy American goods. I am simply suggesting that we have other choices than buying from China and paying Trump's new tax on Chinese goods. As you noted below, there are many other options, many from other countries in Asia.

True....however, it takes a long time for companies to find new suppliers and update supply chains that are complex. In the interim, consumers will bear the cost of the tariff increases.

 

[wing2000]

I doubt any liberal wants to admit that we need to bring back manufacturing jobs from china.

You sound like a socialist that subscribes to the government interfering with the free market. For decades, the US directed other countries to open their markets - with some success --S. Korea and even China. Though of course the latter has some ways to go. In any case, it is not a "liberal" position to let the free market dictate trade.

 

[wing2000]

...meanwhile our glorious leader lauds our farmers:

On Tuesday, Trump wrote on Twitter that “our great Patriot Farmers will be one of the biggest beneficiaries” of his trade policies. He said that would come either from China buying more U.S. products or U.S. government making up the difference.

And Senate Republicans are pushing for government funded relief:

Trump already directed that the department pay out $12 billion to farmers last year who said they were rapidly losing funds because of new import penalties from China. But China signaled Monday that it plans to dramatically increase its restrictions in retaliation for tariffs that Trump has imposed on Beijing.

Sen. John Hoeven (R-N.D.), who chairs the agriculture appropriations subcommittee, said U.S. officials would use a type of “market facilitation payment” but also make direct purchases on behalf of the government from U.S. producers.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...989555e7766_story.html?utm_term=.6f493220a359

 

[FreeinChrist]

First, I do agree that tariffs are almost always economically harmful, no matter what their political effects.
========
But the situation is not as clear as you paint it. If the cost of a parts being imported by GM goes up by $200, ONE option is for GM to simply charge more to the consumer. Just as likely is that GM's profits would go down as GM is forced to absorb the cost, since the amount that the consumer is willing to pay for the product hasn't change. After all, if the consumer was willing to pay $500 more, GM would be charging $500 more and pocketing the additional profits.

A particular product is bought from China because it makes economic sense to do so. Sure, it is possible that with a 20% tax, China's product is the still the best choice. More likely is that it is not.
========
WHAT HAS HAPPENED SO FAR?
There have been lots of tariffs (taxes) put on Chinese goods by Trump, and retaliatory tariffs put on us by China. The result is that we are buying less from China, and they are buying less from us. The deficit with China is way down, just as Trump wanted. HOWEVER, the total trade deficit is up. Consumers are actually buying MORE imported goods, rather than less, just not from China.

I'm fine with this result. Sure, some of our industries are hurt. There will be a transition as our companies become less dependent on sales to China. Again, this is a good thing, and Trump, like politicians in the past, will subsidize the farmers who are unable to compete on the world market.
=======
AS AN ASIDE
I certainly believe that Trump needs to reduce or eliminate tariffs on aluminum and steel, or certainly give waivers to China, Mexico and some of the EU countries. We are in an economic war against China, who cheats in their economic dealings. So, we should be in such a "war". There is great support in Congress for our efforts against China. Trump needs to stop fighting with our economy allies.

Seems there are those who dislike the trade war:

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

President Donald Trump's latest tariff increase on Chinese goods will drive up the Federal Reserve's preferred measure of underlying inflation, and a further escalation of the trade war will have an even greater impact on prices as well as economic growth, according to Goldman Sachs Group Inc......


``The costs of the tariffs have fallen entirely on U.S. businesses and households,'' the Goldman economists said, contrasting with Trump's contention that China pays the levies. ``Further escalation of the trade war could result in a hit to GDP as large as 0.4%, and if trade tensions sparked a major sell-off in the equity market the growth impact could worsen considerably.''

​

Markets send clear signal to US and China on the trade war: You have 'blundered into a minefield'

Tuesday’s relief rally on Wall Street notwithstanding, several under-the-radar indicators are pointing to the danger that a prolonged conflict could put a serious dent into the economy of both nations, and reverberate through a global picture that at best looks tenuous.

Whether it’s increased expectations for interest rate cuts, decreasing expectations for inflation or queasy bond and stock market investors who are more aggressively pricing in slower growth, the message is being sent to the U.S. and China that danger lurks.
​

 

[cow451]

In the long term trade wars really don’t seem to accomplish much.

Chy-Na is a tough opponent and needs to be dealt with in a steady firm way. The Tariff of the month tactic isn’t inspiring confidence in the art of the steal approach to international markets.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Well, here's hoping it doesn't come to that.



Yes. That doesn't change how much they buy, or how much money we make off of it.



Oh! Macro-economics is your thing, is it? Hey, without going to Google, what do you think micro-economics is?



Not sure what to do with that...



Wonderful!



Breitbart! Wow! And not even remotely close to what I asked about!

Without going to a far-right website/cheat-sheet. How, in your view, based on your observations, and your knowledge, has China "played us"?

I'm not saying they haven't, I'm just curious how you think they have.

By stealing our technology and by not working toward a fair trade agreement. Of course, to the latter, that's partially our own politicians to blame. Repubs and Dems alike. (Elaine Chao and hubby, the Bidens, the Clintons, the Bushes). But stealing our military secrets is the biggest one (spying on us with their merchant fleets as a prime example). Also played us by creating military islands in the South China Sea.

 

[Root of Jesse]

How the trade war with China could hit you: Higher prices, lost jobs and falling stocks


so many U.S. companies have gone to China because people wanted lower & lower cost items (Walmart effect) one way to do that was to get products made overseas

now with tariffs raised, the costs will be passed on to consumers as higher priced goods

it will be interesting to see if U.S. companies will turn more to other countries instead of China to have products made to avoid tariffs

That's the best way to avoid paying the tariffs.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Unless you're an American farmer who's one bad harvest away from foreclosure...

And that's because of China/Tariffs? That's been the way of the ag business for 50 years.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Actually, it's not strictly because of unions. The cost of living is simply higher in the USA than most other countries. While a living wage may be $13-18/hr in the USA (depending on locale), it may be 75 cents in Vietnam or Laos or China. If a worker in Vietnam can do the job just as well as the worker here, why wouldn't you go to the Vietnamese worker?

In this regard we are the victim of our own wealth. Even without unions we would not be able to compete.

Did you miss the part where I said "SOME OF THE PROBLEM was unions"? But yeah, some of the problem is over-reaching government regulation here, too. When it's cheaper to cut logs in Washington, ship them to Japan to mill them, and ship them back to market (than it is to mill and market here), there's a lot of problems.
At any rate, I remember how years ago the left used to rail about sweat-shop labor in third-world countries. China is and was one of the worst.
As I stated before, let's have a fair and equitable trade agreement with China, one that protects our intellectual property as well as making marketing fair.

 

[Root of Jesse]

I'm sorry, what?

We started this trade war. Or Trump did.

No, China did, 50 years ago.

 

[Root of Jesse]

What! What was your portfolio looking like before Obama took office?

Going up modestly. I'm not blaming Obama or crediting Trump. President's don't cause the economy. Their policies make it fluctuate, though. The only president who has created any jobs is Donald Trump, and that was before he became president.

 

[TLK Valentine]

And that's because of China/Tariffs? That's been the way of the ag business for 50 years.

Do the tariffs help the farmers or make their situation worse?

 

[Root of Jesse]

Yeah! Americans should be clamoring to pay $40 for a t-shirt or $1700 for an iPhone.

Or be satisfied with what you have already until you need new ones. I have some Tshirts I bought in the early 90s. I have a phone I got free when I joined my carrier.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Going up modestly. I'm not blaming Obama or crediting Trump. President's don't cause the economy. Their policies make it fluctuate, though. The only president who has created any jobs is Donald Trump, and that was before he became president.

Is this supposed to be humor?

 

[Root of Jesse]

How about you don't buy their cheap junk and let the market correct itself that way? Or are we conceding that that doesn't work?

That's how I do it.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Or be satisfied with what you have already until you need new ones. I have some Tshirts I bought in the early 90s. I have a phone I got free when I joined my carrier.

You're expecting consumers not to consume?

 

[TLK Valentine]

That's how I do it.

So where's the problem?

 

[Root of Jesse]

Do the tariffs help the farmers or make their situation worse?

Do taxes help people or make the situation worse? The fact is that every law, every tax, every bureaucratic proclamation hurts some people and helps other people.