Trump: "release the J6 hostages"

[Bradskii]

No such thing as accidental retention...

I'm going to try this step by step. Yeah, I know. No need for any rainbow icons.

Do you agree that Trump refused to hand over the documents after he was asked to do so?

 

[Arcangl86]

No such thing as accidental retention,

Sure there is. Papers get misfiled all the time

try telling that to a cop when he finds 1lb of cocaine in your vehicle, smiles!

Simple possession as a federal crime requires the possession to be knowingly or intentionally. If there is reasonable doubt you know the drugs were in your possession, then no crime was committed. Criminal law in the US , with some specific and limited exceptions, requires two things. Those are the actus rea, or "guilty act" and the men rea, the "guilty mind" or mental state. You need to have both elements for a crime to be committed. The relevant section of the Espionage Act consists of the actus rea of communicating or retaining unauthorized defense information and the men's rea of doing so willfully. Unknowingly possessing the information itself is not a crime. That's why the warrant on Mar A Lago was only issued after several attempts to recover the documents voluntarily.

Honestly I have serious issues with the Espionage Act and think it's too broad in many ways, but it is still the law of the land.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

I covered this in detail, my eyes saw Jacob Chansley being escorted and at one time in the presence of 10 armed capitol police, my eyes saw 2 armed capitol police open a door for Chansley and allowed him to enter

Will you claim this didn't happen, it was a staged event and those 10 armed humans weren't capitol police in the presence of Chansley?

"Just remember, what you are seeing and what you are reading is not what's happening." Donald J. Trump

 

[Red Gold]

Well, I am not surprised.

meither am i

 

[wing2000]

The longest-serving district judge on the federal bench in Washington, D.C., warned Thursday that false rhetoric about the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol — including the sorts of lies hurled by former President Donald Trump and some of his congressional allies — poses an ongoing danger to the nation.

Judge Royce Lamberth, a Reagan appointee to the bench, said the “destructive” misinformation, spread by political leaders who have downplayed and misrepresented the attack, had become pervasive.

‘Preposterous’: Federal judge decries efforts to downplay Jan. 6 violence, label perpetrators ‘hostages’

Judge Royce Lamberth, who has handled dozens of Jan. 6 cases, lamented the false rhetoric spread by Donald Trump and his allies.

www.politico.com

From the judges ruling:

"The Court is accustomed to defendants who refuse to accept that they did anything wrong. But in my thirty-seven years on the bench, I cannot recall a time when such meritless justifications of criminal activity have gone mainstream. I have been dismayed to see distortions and outright falsehoods seep into the public consciousness. I have been shocked to watch some public figures try to rewrite history, claiming rioters behaved “in an orderly fashion” like ordinary tourists, or martyrizing convicted January 6 defendants as “political prisoners” or even, incredibly, “hostages.” That is all preposterous. But the Court fears that such destructive, misguided rhetoric could presage further danger to our country.

The Court cannot condone the shameless attempts by Mr. Little or anyone else to misinterpret or misrepresent what happened. It cannot condone the notion that those who broke the law on January 6 did nothing wrong, or that those duly convicted with all the safeguards of the United States Constitution, including a right to trial by jury in felony cases, are political prisoners or hostages.

So let me set the record straight, based on what I’ve learned presiding over many January 6 prosecutions, hearing from dozens of witnesses, watching hundreds of hours of video footage, and reading thousands of pages of evidence. On January 6, 2021, a mob of people invaded and occupied the United States Capitol, using force to interrupt the peaceful transfer of power mandated by the Constitution and our republican heritage. This was not a protest that got out of hand. It was a riot; in many respects a coordinated riot, as is clear from cases before me including Hostetter (21-cr-392) and Worrell (21-cr-292). “Protestors” would have simply shared their views on the election—as did thousands that day who did not approach the Capitol. But those who breached and occupied the Capitol building and grounds halted the counting of the Electoral College votes required by the Twelfth Amendment. The rioters interfered with a necessary step in the constitutional process, disrupted the lawful transfer of power, and thus jeopardized the American constitutional order. Although the rioters failed in their ultimate goal, their actions nonetheless resulted in the deaths of multiple people, injury to over 140 members of law enforcement, and lasting trauma for our entire nation. This was not patriotism; it was the antithesis of patriotism.

And the rioters achieved this result through force. Not everyone present that day was violent, but violence is what let them into the Capitol. At first, a police line protected the Capitol, but eventually law enforcement was subjected to such force by such a mass of people that rioters pushed through. Upon entering the Capitol, many rioters vandalized and looted, some hunted for members of Congress.

 

[wing2000]

Trump salutes the "J6 Hostages" at a campaign event over the weekend:

“Please rise,” booms the announcer, “for the horribly and unfairly treated January 6 hostages.” Then, as the speaker system plays a recorded mash-up of the national anthem sung by participants in the January 6th insurrection, Trump melodramatically salutes.

He salutes the insurrectionists.

Trump doubled down once he took the microphone. Those duly tried and convicted for rioting on January 6th, in prison for their violent effort to overturn a free and fair election, Trump described as “unbelievable patriots” and “hostages.” Once again, he indicated he’d pardon them.

-William Kristol of The Bulwark

Trump: J6 Convicts Are ’Unbelievable Patriots’

Plus: Unpacking the “bloodbath hoax“ sideshow.

plus.thebulwark.com

 

[JustOneWay]

Trump salutes the "J6 Hostages" at a campaign event over the weekend:

“Please rise,” booms the announcer, “for the horribly and unfairly treated January 6 hostages.” Then, as the speaker system plays a recorded mash-up of the national anthem sung by participants in the January 6th insurrection, Trump melodramatically salutes.

He salutes the insurrectionists.

Trump doubled down once he took the microphone. Those duly tried and convicted for rioting on January 6th, in prison for their violent effort to overturn a free and fair election, Trump described as “unbelievable patriots” and “hostages.” Once again, he indicated he’d pardon them.

-William Kristol of The Bulwark

Trump: J6 Convicts Are ’Unbelievable Patriots’

Plus: Unpacking the “bloodbath hoax“ sideshow.

plus.thebulwark.com

Each time the republicans or Trump calls them hostages, they do a huge disservice to America's police and the United States justice system.

 

[Bradskii]

The last straw that broke the camel's back? The concept simply doesn't exist any more. The camel is lying under a few tonnes of straw and had the life crushed out of it a very long time ago. It's now just a bachtrian smear on the American flag. Point that out to a lot of people and they'll say 'Dead? Nah, mate. It's not dead. It's just resting'.

 

[A2SG]

The last straw that broke the camel's back? The concept simply doesn't exist any more. The camel is lying under a few tonnes of straw and had the life crushed out of it a very long time ago. It's now just a bachtrian smear on the American flag. Point that out to a lot of people and they'll say 'Dead? Nah, mate. It's not dead. It's just resting'.

Pining for the fjords!

-- A2SG, lovely plumage, though...

 

[Valletta]

Trump salutes the "J6 Hostages" at a campaign event over the weekend:

“Please rise,” booms the announcer, “for the horribly and unfairly treated January 6 hostages.” Then, as the speaker system plays a recorded mash-up of the national anthem sung by participants in the January 6th insurrection, Trump melodramatically salutes.

He salutes the insurrectionists.

Trump doubled down once he took the microphone. Those duly tried and convicted for rioting on January 6th, in prison for their violent effort to overturn a free and fair election, Trump described as “unbelievable patriots” and “hostages.” Once again, he indicated he’d pardon them.

-William Kristol of The Bulwark

Trump: J6 Convicts Are ’Unbelievable Patriots’

Plus: Unpacking the “bloodbath hoax“ sideshow.

plus.thebulwark.com

Shame on Mr. Kristol.

 

[Truth7t7]

Trump salutes the "J6 Hostages" at a campaign event over the weekend:

“Please rise,” booms the announcer, “for the horribly and unfairly treated January 6 hostages.” Then, as the speaker system plays a recorded mash-up of the national anthem sung by participants in the January 6th insurrection, Trump melodramatically salutes.

He salutes the insurrectionists.

Trump doubled down once he took the microphone. Those duly tried and convicted for rioting on January 6th, in prison for their violent effort to overturn a free and fair election, Trump described as “unbelievable patriots” and “hostages.” Once again, he indicated he’d pardon them.

-William Kristol of The Bulwark

Trump: J6 Convicts Are ’Unbelievable Patriots’

Plus: Unpacking the “bloodbath hoax“ sideshow.

plus.thebulwark.com

The vast majority sentenced were mere attendees, and the US Supreme Court will soon rule on "Obstruction" that will effect hundreds of cases, sentencing was politically motivated​

​

Law & Crime​

Supreme Court set to hear Jan. 6 rioter’s appeal on obstruction charge that could upend Trump case, hundreds of others​

BRANDI BUCHMANFeb 19th, 2024

The applicability of a federal criminal charge shared by Donald Trump and hundreds of accused and convicted Jan. 6 rioters will soon be argued before the U.S. Supreme Court and no matter how justices fall on the issue, the decision will have far-reaching consequences.

In a release of the high court’s calendar reviewed by Law&Crime on Monday, the justices have agreed to hear arguments in Fischer v. United States on April 16.

 

[wing2000]

"January 6, 2021, marked a tragic day in American history. The peaceful transfer of power—one of our most important and sacred democratic processes—came under a full-fledged assault. While the immediate threat may have subsided, the damage from January 6 persists. Rioters interrupted the certification of the 2020 Electoral College vote count, injured more than one hundred law enforcement officers, and caused more than a million dollars of property damage to the U.S. Capitol. Some of the rioters—now defendants in criminal cases—directly contributed to this violence by assaulting members of law enforcement or by planning, preparing, and facilitating this violence. Others, like Little here, did not directly assault officers. But even Little and those who engaged in this “lesser” criminal conduct were an essential component to the harm. Law-enforcement officers were overwhelmed by the sheer swath of criminality. And those who engaged in violence that day were able to do so because they found safety in numbers."

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.230440/gov.uscourts.dcd.230440.73.0.pdf

 

[Hank77]

"January 6, 2021, marked a tragic day in American history. The peaceful transfer of power—one of our most important and sacred democratic processes—came under a full-fledged assault. While the immediate threat may have subsided, the damage from January 6 persists. Rioters interrupted the certification of the 2020 Electoral College vote count, injured more than one hundred law enforcement officers, and caused more than a million dollars of property damage to the U.S. Capitol. Some of the rioters—now defendants in criminal cases—directly contributed to this violence by assaulting members of law enforcement or by planning, preparing, and facilitating this violence. Others, like Little here, did not directly assault officers. But even Little and those who engaged in this “lesser” criminal conduct were an essential component to the harm. Law-enforcement officers were overwhelmed by the sheer swath of criminality. And those who engaged in violence that day were able to do so because they found safety in numbers."

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.230440/gov.uscourts.dcd.230440.73.0.pdf

This was not patriotism; it was the antithesis of patriotism

Page 5, para. 3

 

[essentialsaltes]

The vast majority sentenced were mere attendees​

True, and they got sentences to match. Half of the misdemeanor sentences involve no jail time.

 

[Valletta]

"January 6, 2021, marked a tragic day in American history. The peaceful transfer of power—one of our most important and sacred democratic processes—came under a full-fledged assault. While the immediate threat may have subsided, the damage from January 6 persists. Rioters interrupted the certification of the 2020 Electoral College vote count, injured more than one hundred law enforcement officers, and caused more than a million dollars of property damage to the U.S. Capitol. Some of the rioters—now defendants in criminal cases—directly contributed to this violence by assaulting members of law enforcement or by planning, preparing, and facilitating this violence. Others, like Little here, did not directly assault officers. But even Little and those who engaged in this “lesser” criminal conduct were an essential component to the harm. Law-enforcement officers were overwhelmed by the sheer swath of criminality. And those who engaged in violence that day were able to do so because they found safety in numbers."

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.230440/gov.uscourts.dcd.230440.73.0.pdf

The article is baloney. They actually interrupted the appeals of senators. Anyone who committed a violent act deserved prison time, including the police officer who gunned down an unarmed protestor. But to be there and walking by officers without them even saying you are not allowed to go in and then being put in prison is a travesty of justice. There should have been mo prison time for those who just technically trespassed.

 

[JustOneWay]

Anyone who committed a violent act deserved prison time, including the police officer who gunned down an unarmed protestor.

She was not a protestor. Once she illegally entered the Capitol, she became a person who was breaking and entering, and did a criminal act. The cop was defending the other cops and the politicians. The cop was a hero.

 

[Hans Blaster]

The vast majority sentenced were mere attendees, and the US Supreme Court will soon rule on "Obstruction" that will effect hundreds of cases, sentencing was politically motivated​

​

The bold text above is not from the article quoted below. It says nothing about politically motivated sentencing. In fact the case isn't about sentencing at all. It is about whether the statute applies to anti-government insurrectionists or just to interference in court proceedings.

Here is a link to her article:

Supreme Court set to hear Jan. 6 rioter's appeal on charge that could upend Trump case

Law & Crime​

Supreme Court set to hear Jan. 6 rioter’s appeal on obstruction charge that could upend Trump case, hundreds of others​

BRANDI BUCHMANFeb 19th, 2024

The applicability of a federal criminal charge shared by Donald Trump and hundreds of accused and convicted Jan. 6 rioters will soon be argued before the U.S. Supreme Court and no matter how justices fall on the issue, the decision will have far-reaching consequences.

In a release of the high court’s calendar reviewed by Law&Crime on Monday, the justices have agreed to hear arguments in Fischer v. United States on April 16.

 

[FreeinChrist]

The article is baloney. They actually interrupted the appeals of senators. Anyone who committed a violent act deserved prison time, including the police officer who gunned down an unarmed protestor. But to be there and walking by officers without them even saying you are not allowed to go in and then being put in prison is a travesty of justice. There should have been mo prison time for those who just technically trespassed.

The fantasy that most of the insurrectionists were welcomed in is just that - fantasy. I asked you once for proof about protesters being welcomed in, and all you could produce was a weak, edited video that for all we know, the cop gave up or was one that ended up fired.

This does not look like they were welcomed in or obeying the law:

0

 

[wing2000]

The article is baloney. They actually interrupted the appeals of senators. Anyone who committed a violent act deserved prison time, including the police officer who gunned down an unarmed protestor. But to be there and walking by officers without them even saying you are not allowed to go in and then being put in prison is a travesty of justice. There should have been mo prison time for those who just technically trespassed.

The "article" is an excerpt from a Judge's opinion.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Trump salutes the "J6 Hostages" at a campaign event over the weekend:

“Please rise,” booms the announcer, “for the horribly and unfairly treated January 6 hostages.” Then, as the speaker system plays a recorded mash-up of the national anthem sung by participants in the January 6th insurrection, Trump melodramatically salutes.

“They were unbelievable patriots,” Trump said as the recording ended.

Can't wait for that Biden campaign ad.