Trump Raid updates

[grasping the after wind]

As much as I dislike the FBI I grant them that they are able to read stamps on documents that state that they are considered secret.
Your reason to disbelieve the FBI's basic reading ability?

Until i see evidence to support a claim, I doubt (not disbelieve) any claim made by any government official. I have seen way too many false claims and purposeful disinformation disseminated by government sources over the years to simply take anything that comes from government sources on faith alone.

 

[Pommer]

Is it your contention that protests and strikes are inherently uncivil?

Disruption of “normal life” is not necessarily “uncivil”, but the thing we were discussing was protests in judges’ neighborhoods. (I generally support people voicing their opinions in the streets.)

 

[Pommer]

Right now we have a bunch of unknown stuff taken from Trumps residence.

I’m pretty sure that the agencies involved know what documents they have now.
We’re not privy to it, is that a “bad thing”?

 

[grasping the after wind]

Hopefully when Trump supporters attack Congress or the FBI building, they can do so in a civil manner.

I suggest that everyone my self included, would be wise to keep Matt 7:5 in mind.

"First get rid of the log in your own eye; then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend’s eye."

 

[rjs330]

That sounds like an unbelievable conspiracy.
Why aren't right leaning people getting into the media industry?
Do these schools not accept right leaning people? Do they not accept right leaning teachers?
It's all utter nonsense of course, but do go on.

That's your claim not mine you are just trolling now. Are perhaps trying to spew propeganda?

Studies show that over 80% of journalists are either left or moderate left. With over 50% being leftist. That's group think.

By asking the question on why don't more conservatives get into journalism you are admitting the truth. There aren't that many that are.

CBS News Chief: ‘Most Mainstream Journalists Are Now Democrat Activists’

Calling it a conspiracy allows you to dismiss the facts. Why? Because you don't want to believe the facts.

Nah, your conspiracy implies lots of unbelievable coordination.

Nope. What happens when you get a lot of people in the same field who all think alike?

assume people that get into media as a career are people that come from all walks of life, all ideologies (well, except for Armish of course), all political leanings.
What you are saying is unsupported nonsense, total conspiracy stuff, total paranoia.

Assume all you want but the studies prove otherwise.

As to why? Well there is this.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...-democrats-view-the-soviet-socialist-trenches

 

[rjs330]

I’m pretty sure that the agencies involved know what documents they have now.
We’re not privy to it, is that a “bad thing”?

No not a bad thing at all. But there is an awful lot of "speculatin' going on".

Why don't we wait instead of speculating things like Trump is selling secrets to our enemies?

 

[stevil]

They believed he was in wrong doing. They provided laws they believed he had broken. That's why you get a search warrant.

Yes, I agree, the law can't just force entry to a place without having some evidence of a crime and getting approval from a judge.

To gather evidence of the offense you are claiming they did.

But, that does not mean they are doing the raid to get more evidence. It might be possible that they had reason to suspect that Trump had confidential documents that he shouldn't have, and that the raid was in order to retrieve those classified documents.
Whether they pursue further criminal action is not yet known to the public.

BTW, I didn't claim anything. I'm just letting you know what I have read in the papers.
- The FBI had been having previous conversations with Trump and his lawyers and were previously given some classified documents but not all.
- One of Trump's lawyers signed a letter attesting to there being no classified documents left at Maralago
- Maraloago was raided by the FBI to collect classified documents
- The FBI retrieved 11 classified documents from Maralago.

You just proved my point on journalism. They suggested it was just to retrieve documents?

Who is they??
I said just one article stated that the raid doesn't mean that they are necessarily building a criminal case against Trump. That they might have gone in simply to retrieve the documents that they have spent months asking for.

The article didn't claim to know what the reason for the raid was, and didn't claim to know whether they were building a criminal case against Trump or not.

What right side they have to do that? You don't get a warrant to retrieve documents without cause of a crime.

Sure I agree, the judge seemed to agree that it was a crime for Trump to possess those documents, so now the FBI have gone in and forcibly taken those documents away.

If they were just trying to retrieve documents then they just abused the justice system which makes them even more untrustworthy.

What? No!, unfortunately you are not understanding something very simple here.
These documents are important and were in the possession of someone who had no legal right to have them. The FBI claimed them back and had every right to do so, so says the judge that signed off on the warrant.

The news made a suggestion. A propeganda statement, twisting what the warrant called for to make it appear less ominous.

I've never thought the raid was ominous, I have thought it very weird that Trump has the documents though and that he's been refusing to give them back and that his lawyer gave false testimony.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Disruption of “normal life” is not necessarily “uncivil”, but the thing we were discussing was protests in judges’ neighborhoods. (I generally support people voicing their opinions in the streets.)

I find that most protests in recent years lack any redeeming value. They do not seem to even attempt to engage in the art of persuasion but instead in resemble an extended version of Orwell's two-minute hate. With mindless sloganeering and a "Hooray for our side" and especially "down with them" attitude. It isn't the protesting, but the way people protest that determines whether it is civil or not. Is it peaceful and lawful protest following the laws and respecting private property? Are people respectfully, even if passionately, expressing their opinions about the matter they are protesting for or against? Does it become an opportunity to riot or vandalize or steal. Does it become an occasion to intimidate, or spew hate toward any and all that might disagree with the protesters POV? Is it a group protest or just a mob?

 

[rjs330]

Do they not accept right leaning teachers?

I don't know if they accept them or not. But it can't be denied that our schools are run by the left.

www.pacificresearch.org/why-are-teachers-mostly-liberal/

 

[Pommer]

No not a bad thing at all. But there is an awful lot of "speculatin' going on".

Why don't we wait instead of speculating things like Trump is selling secrets to our enemies?

I agree.
But that the Feds had to go this route to get these documents back is bad enough, in itself…this is “rule of law” not “I’ll do what I want, who’s going to stop me?”

 

[Pommer]

I find that most protests in recent years lack any redeeming value. They do not seem to even attempt to engage in the art of persuasion but instead in resemble an extended version of Orwell's two-minute hate. With mindless sloganeering and a "Hooray for our side" and especially "down with them" attitude. It isn't the protesting, but the way people protest that determines whether it is civil or not. Is it peaceful and lawful protest following the laws and respecting private property? Are people respectfully, even if passionately, expressing their opinions about the matter they are protesting for or against? Does it become an opportunity to riot or vandalize or steal. Does it become an occasion to intimidate, or spew hate toward any and all that might disagree with the protesters POV? Is it a group protest or just a mob?

Sometimes a protests are about people not being happy without a clear complaint or (indeed) solution in mind.
Overall it’s a good thing.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Sometimes a protests are about people not being happy without a clear complaint or (indeed) solution in mind.
Overall it’s a good thing.

If one doesn't know why one is unhappy one should become more self-aware rather than thinking that being a nuisance to others will solve one's personal unhappiness.

 

[BPPLEE]

Posting links from both sides of the fence (since both sides will have their own spin on the events):

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/08/09/trump-fbi-search-maralago/

Trump FBI raid: Agents seize Mar-a-Lago documents in unprecedented move


Apart from the predictable "One side says it's justified" vs. "Other side says it's an unprecedented overreach"

I'm more concerned about the future implications of such an endeavor.

This is one of those things where "the bell can't be un-rung" so to speak, and if the political/administrative composition of the country changes in 2024, I can totally see things devolving into a tit for tat situation.

Biden signed off on FBI review of Trump records, National Archives letter reveals

 

[Pommer]

Biden signed off on FBI review of Trump records, National Archives letter reveals

And what are we to conclude from this bombshell?

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

[URL='https://theweek.com/donald-trump/1016101/trump-envoy-releases-letter-from-national-archives-deemed-extraordinary']Trump envoy releases letter from National Archives deemed 'extraordinarily damning' for Trump[/URL]

 

[Hank77]

CBS News Chief: ‘Most Mainstream Journalists Are Now Democrat Activists’

CBC News chief foreign affairs reporter Lara Logan has admitted that most mainstream journalists have become Democrat activists.
...
She also admitted that journalists today are more or less lobbyists for liberal interests, adding that the weight of the liberal media machine overwhelms “the other side” unless people actively seek outlets such as Breitbart.

Breitbart, unbiased and truthful, Steve Bannon, yike!

 

[Hank77]

Biden signed off on FBI review of Trump records, National Archives letter reveals

Is that what "defer" to someone's "determination" means?

The way I read that is that the White House Counsel asked Biden about it and he said that it was their decision to make.
Biden hands off, staying out of it?

 

[Hank77]

They believed he was in wrong doing. They provided laws they believed he had broken. That's why you get a search warrant. To gather evidence of the offense you are claiming they did. You just proved my point on journalism. They suggested it was just to retrieve documents? What right side they have to do that? You don't get a warrant to retrieve documents without cause of a crime. If they were just trying to retrieve documents then they just abused the justice system which makes them even more untrustworthy.

In order to get the documents back, they had to get a search warrant. The search warrant had to show why the government had the authority to reclaim these documents. They did that by listing the laws that had been broken when the documents were taken. The law says that the documents belong to the government. Because they had shown cause the judge signed off on the warrant.
That doesn't mean that they will bring charges against Trump, in fact, I don't believe they will.
He'll be chided like Hillary was about being negligent and careless, yadda, yadda and that will be it.

 

[rjs330]

CBC News chief foreign affairs reporter Lara Logan has admitted that most mainstream journalists have become Democrat activists.
...
She also admitted that journalists today are more or less lobbyists for liberal interests, adding that the weight of the liberal media machine overwhelms “the other side” unless people actively seek outlets such as Breitbart.

Breitbart, unbiased and truthful, Steve Bannon, yike!

Yeah Bannon. But the key here is that the liberal media OVERWHELMS the other side. And you have to ACTIVELY seek it out. Conservative media has grown in response to the liberal media which still has the advantage.

 

[rjs330]

In order to get the documents back, they had to get a search warrant. The search warrant had to show why the government had the authority to reclaim these documents. They did that by listing the laws that had been broken when the documents were taken. The law says that the documents belong to the government. Because they had shown cause the judge signed off on the warrant.
That doesn't mean that they will bring charges against Trump, in fact, I don't believe they will.
He'll be chided like Hillary was about being negligent and careless, yadda, yadda and that will be it.

Right, they had to list crimes and probable cause to believe that he had things in his house that were evidence of those crimes. I don't think anything is going to come of it either. They knew he had those documents. I still thinks this smacks of political abuse. The chief opponent to the current president has a warrant issued for his residence. A former president. This smells at this point, but I am willing to wait and see what happens.