Trump preferred over Lincoln by Republicans

[usexpat97]

They shouldn't have forced the issue at gunpoint then. The slave states attacked the US. The slave states started killing because they didn't like how an election turned out.

The killing started in Manassas, VIRGINIA. Fort Sumter is in SOUTH CAROLINA. In both cases, those were Union troops, invading slave states. There were no casualties at Fort Sumter, even though the Confederates very much could have. And hindsight 20/20, should have. You need to re-check your history books.

The slave states rebelled without letting over third of their people even have a vote in the matter.

Again, I was very clear that I only sympathized with the South on the matter of separation from the Union, if that's what they want. Not slavery.

Maybe in matters of peaceful separation with an agreement from both sides over who get what matters can be different, but the United States had every right to preserve its territorial integrity from a radical insurgency.

Which is EXACTLY what Yes! California is.

And I am a Californian. We don't want to leave the Union. So please keep us out this, thank you very much.

Fact-check.

The 'Calexit' plan to split California from the US gets a second chance, while others are looking to break up the state

 

[Albion]

Huh? Yes it is.

If it never comes to a vote, we can't very well say they're 'disgusted to the point of leaving.'

It's all just talk in the meantime (and we both know Californians wouldn't secede if given the chance).

 

[Speedwell]

The killing started in Manassas, VIRGINIA. Fort Sumter is in SOUTH CAROLINA. In both cases, those were Union troops, invading slave states. There were no casualties at Fort Sumter, even though the Confederates very much could have. And hindsight 20/20, should have. You need to re-check your history books.

Maybe you should. The proximate cause of hostilities was the disposition of federally owned property in the seceding states. The Confederates attacked Fort Sumter, a federally owned island in Charleston harbor on April 12th 1861 which is what began the shooting war, That can hardly be construed as "Union troops invading slave states." First Manassas did not take place until two months later, on April 21st.

 

[Albion]

The Confederates attacked Fort Sumter, a federally owned island in Charleston harbor on April 12th 1861 which is what began the shooting war, That can hardly be construed as "Union troops invading slave states." First Manassas did not take place until two months later, on April 21st.

However, what is alleged to be the first actual fighting (however small), did occur in Manassas before Ft. Sumter and before Bull Run. It's one of those trivia things that hardly anyone who hasn't been on the spot ever heard of.

 

[Speedwell]

However, what is alleged to be the first actual fighting (however small), did occur in Manassas before Ft. Sumter and before Bull Run. It's one of those trivia things that hardly anyone who hasn't been on the spot ever heard of.

Then there is the firing on The Star of the West, which was attempting to resupply Fort Sumter, on January 9th 1861.

 

[Albion]

Then there is the firing on The Star of the West, which was attempting to resupply Fort Sumter, on January 9th 1861.

I was saying that our friend's comment here about Manassas could be correct, although you challenged it.

 

[Speedwell]

I was saying that our friend's comment here about Manassas could be correct, although you challenged it.

I was responding to his assertion that the attack on Ft. Sumter amounted to "Union troops invading slave states."

 

[Albion]

I was responding to his assertion that the attack on Ft. Sumter amounted to "Union troops invading slave states."

My comment was about him saying that the killing started in Manassas and you replying that--

First Manassas did not take place until two months later, on April 21st.

In fact, he may be right about this, even though we all agree that the battle called First Manassas came later.

 

[iluvatar5150]

The killing started in Manassas, VIRGINIA. Fort Sumter is in SOUTH CAROLINA. In both cases, those were Union troops, invading slave states. There were no casualties at Fort Sumter, even though the Confederates very much could have. And hindsight 20/20, should have. You need to re-check your history books.

 

[A Realist]

There were no casualties at Fort Sumter, even though the Confederates very much could have.

Maybe because they surrendered before they suffered any casualties?

Number of Union soldiers at Fort Sumter: 80
Number of Confederacy soldiers manning the artillery: 500

It was pure chance that no one at the fort was killed. The commander only fired guns from the lower casemates at the fort where his men would be better protected from the shelling. The Confederates weren't trying to "not" kill them......

 

[usexpat97]

Maybe because they surrendered before they suffered any casualties?

Number of Union soldiers at Fort Sumter: 80
Number of Confederacy soldiers manning the artillery: 500

It was pure chance that no one at the fort was killed. The commander only fired guns from the lower casemates at the fort where his men would be better protected from the shelling. The Confederates weren't trying to "not" kill them......

Oh come on.

The South could very easily have waited for the troop transports to sail in and sink them. It was a last attempt to secede peacefully.

 

[Speedwell]

Oh come on.

The South could very easily have waited for the troop transports to sail in and sink them. It was a last attempt to secede peacefully.

That's all very well, but I still don't see how firing on Ft. Sumter amounted to "Union forces invading slave states."

 

[cow451]

Exactly. Many of today's Southern Republicans espouse the same ideals as the Southern Democrats of the Civil War era.

The Trump supporters in today's south are the folks running around with the rebel flags on their cars, flying on flag poles in front of their houses, and sporting MAGA hats. They just can't get it through their heads that the South lost.

A misunderstanding happened. Lee gave his sword to Grant so he could shine it. Grant was so drunk he thought Lee surrendered.

 

[A Realist]

That's all very well, but I still don't see how firing on Ft. Sumter amounted to "Union forces invading slave states."

He must've read "The Civil War According to Jefferson Davis".

 

[Joy]

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