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Trump -- once again -- fails to condemn the alt-right, white supremacists

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by AirPo, Aug 13, 2017.

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  1. AirPo

    AirPo with a Touch of Grey

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    Trump, soft on terror.

    Full story here -->:wave:
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
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  2. ThatRobGuy

    ThatRobGuy The artist formerly known as miniverchivi Supporter

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    Well, to be fair (and as everyone on CF knows, I don't go soft on Trump or the alt-right), I think this a combination of what I call "creative presentation" of the information, and a sticky situation for Trump.

    It's not that he "didn't condemn the alt-right", it's that he didn't specifically name them (and only them) for being at fault for the violence.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...s-on-clashes-draw-strong-reactions/104540810/

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...rawls-there-no-place-kind-violence/562077001/

    President Trump publicly denounced a deadly eruption of violence at a Virginia rally of white nationalists Saturday, declaring that the "hatred and division must stop.''

    Trump, interrupting a signing ceremony for legislation benefiting veterans at his New Jersey golf club, called the street clashes, ending with a car plowing through a group of counter-protesters, "very, very sad.''

    "I condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of violence and bigotry,'' Trump said, calling for a "swift restoration of law and order.'' "Above all else, we must remember this truth," Trump said. "No matter color, creed, religion or political party, we are all Americans first.''
    upload_2017-8-13_8-8-46.png



    The left's reaction to his response is very reminiscent the right's response to Obama's addresses following Islamic attacks, all of that "Why won't you call it by its name?!?!" stuff we heard out of them during Obama's presidency.

    At it's essence, we're talking about a violent clash between 2 groups (Alt-right and Antifa) in which there are no "good guys". Singling out only one would be a silent endorsement of the other in the eyes of many.

    It's literally asking the president to publicly pick a side in a street brawl between one team with Nazi regalia and Rebel flags, and other team with ski masks and Commie flags.

    [​IMG] Vs. upload_2017-8-13_8-15-1.jpeg

    If I were in his shoes, I'd probably do the same thing, condemn all of it.
     
  3. Eryk

    Eryk This could be the day Supporter

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    Moral cowardice in the face of evil completely discredits this man as a leader. There were actual Nazis in Charlottesville with swastikas and Luftwaffe markings on their shields.

    Orrin Hatch: "We should call evil by its name. My brother didn't give his life fighting Hitler for Nazi ideas to go unchallenged here at home."

    And the Neo-Confederate racists waving traitor flags don't get a pass, either. This is the day when Americans take a stronger stand against racist evil and domestic terrorism. The clowns with tiki torches are on the losing side of history and they know it.
     
  4. szechuan

    szechuan Newbie

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    The problem is that he refuses to say they are Terrorists when in the past Muslims have done similar things and he called them Terrorists. Trump did a horrible Job "Condemning all of it" what a load a bull.

    Trump is suppose to be Anti-PC, this is the most PC he has ever been since Racists that voted for him were part of the Protest. He's just pandering to his Toxic Base.
     
  5. szechuan

    szechuan Newbie

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    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
  6. JGG

    JGG Well-Known Member

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    But these are good Nazis. They're American Nazis. They're on our side. They vote Republican. The real problem is all of those people who want to fight these Nazis! Perhaps we should be questioning their patriotism! They're probably secret liberals!
     
  7. szechuan

    szechuan Newbie

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    Good Nazis who believe in the Superior Aryan Race and hate the Statue of Liberty?
     
  8. JGG

    JGG Well-Known Member

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    Good Nazis who hate liberals, and people who didn't support Trump!
     
  9. ThatRobGuy

    ThatRobGuy The artist formerly known as miniverchivi Supporter

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    ...no, he took the exact same approach that Obama took when there were instances of Islamic terrorism.

    Which is to choose ones words carefully so that they can condemn the actions without potentially appearing to take sides when neither side is favorable.

    A close example would be the political bickering that happened after the shootings that took place at the "Draw Muhammed" context in Texas.

    There were calls from Republicans at time asking Obama to "call it what it is, and publicly condemn Islamic terrorism"...and they wouldn't accept just "terrorism", he was pressured to use the specific words "Islamic terrorism" or they would claim he was "being too soft on them".

    Again, that was a tough spot to be in...if he only singled out "Islamic Terrorism" in that scuffle, it would've been viewed as him siding with the "let's have Muhammed drawing contest to mock Muslims" crowd...which obviously he didn't want to do. So, much like Trump did in this instance, he took the opportunity to condemn violence, some generic platitudes about how "we all need to come together as Americans", and thanked law enforcement that got the situation under control.


    One there's one group setting out to intentionally provoke, and another group takes the bait and violence breaks out, singling out one side for condemnation comes across as "teaming up" with the other side.

    Obama's strategists understood this, as do Trump's...


    I'm the first one to criticize the alt-right and Trump (and often times, call out people who support him in various aspects of his policies .. @Rion and @brinny can attest to that as I've been in many debates with those two, right guys? ;) ...it's not like I'm pro-Trump guy who tries to defend his every action)

    However, this is a blatant case of a double standard by many on the left. They're taking the exact same stance here that many of the Anti-Obama people took when he'd make statements about violence, and refrained from specifically using the words "Islamic terrorism".
     
  10. szechuan

    szechuan Newbie

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    Thanks for proving my point that Donald Trump was only being PC when it suited him.

    Oh and Obama has denounced Extremism in these instances Trump didn't.
     
  11. JGG

    JGG Well-Known Member

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    Do you happen to know where that speech is? I imagine Trump's looking to lift some lines from it.
     
  12. Eryk

    Eryk This could be the day Supporter

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    The strategy that Trump loudly condemned many times.
     
  13. JGG

    JGG Well-Known Member

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    Judging by how this tends to work, when the communists and Nazis are battling it out in the streets, Kristallnacht is following closely behind.
     
  14. JGG

    JGG Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but he also tweeted that Obama golfed too much, and took too much vacation. There's a reason this man has standards.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
  15. ThatRobGuy

    ThatRobGuy The artist formerly known as miniverchivi Supporter

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    Perhaps you missed his quote that I linked:
    "I condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of violence and bigotry,''

    I doubt this is "being PC when it suits him".

    If what many on the left are saying is true, and "these are Trump's people" and "his loyal fan base", by him saying that he "in the strongest possible terms" "condemns this display of bigotry", ...wouldn't he have just alienated those folks?

    Again, I'm not a Trump fan, I call out Trump (and his supporters) for a wide variety of things on a regular basis here on CF...however, the tactics some on the left are using in this instance are a carbon copy of the tactics they claimed to hate back when Obama was in the big chair and FOX News was calling him out for not using specific verbiage and a blatant double standard.

    Nobody on the left was expecting Obama to publicly "specifically condemn only one side" in the scuffle between Islamic radicals and Pamela Gellar, so why are they expecting Trump to "specifically condemn only one side" in a conflict between Alt-Right and Antifa?
     
  16. ThatRobGuy

    ThatRobGuy The artist formerly known as miniverchivi Supporter

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    We already know Trump's a hypocrite...it's not his hypocrisy I'm calling out in this thread.
     
  17. JGG

    JGG Well-Known Member

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    No. He obviously meant to condemn the liberals. They're the horrible people. He condemned the violence. The left is the violent side. We're non-violent. If he was condemning us, he would have said so.
     
  18. Drekkan85

    Drekkan85 Immortal until proven otherwise

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    I'm pretty comfortable blaming the literal NAZIs for the violence that occurred - the sort of which was seen at rallies the last time a country saw a government supported by literal NAZIs.

    Also you're incorrect in calling out a comparison between this and Obama's refusal to blame "radical Islam". Obama always put the blame exclusively on the radicals even if he used different names. He never said "Paris was bombed. Look, I think the French and the radical extremists both should calm down and stop the violence".

    No - supported the French, blamed the extremists, and announced new air strikes and drone missions. Your entire position is absolutely a false equivalence.

    Asll we have to do is look at the reactions of the dailystormer and other NAZI news sources - which were all overjoyed at the positive reaction they got from President Trump and his implicit support for them and their position. I'd say maybe if the literal NAZIs are celebrating your policy position and noting your support, maybe you should be more explicit about your opposition to their positions.
     
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  19. Obliquinaut

    Obliquinaut Сделайте Америку прекрасной

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    My fear is that the Left has now found their version of "Radical islamic terrorism". The magic phrase that the Right demanded Obama utter. Now, granted, Obama did note the terrorists, just didn't pin them with the Islamic monicker, but we shouldn't be upset if Trump doesn't specifically say a certain phrase.

    Trump's response was moral equivalency at its best and he shouldn't have such a hard time calling out extremist neo-nazis, but if he does we just need to keep an eye on it to make sure it doesn't hide a deeper darkness to Trump.

    While Trump has been prosecuted by the US government for racist policies (in the 70's he and his daddy were prosecuted for racist housing policies which the Trumps settled out of court). But I doubt very highly that Trump is a neo-nazi per se. I think the worst thing we can definitively say is that Trump's rhetoric meshes very well with white nationalist/neo-nazi rhetoric which is why the white nationalists and neo-nazis are drawn to Trump. Not necessarily the other way around

    Trump also realizes which side of his bread is buttered and by whom so he will likely not call down significant opprobrium on anyone who even marginally supports Trump. The only IDEAL that Trump is truly wedded to is "TRUMP". That's it.

    Trump is like a negative space generator...we learn as much by what he doesn't say as what he does say. He tweets and speaks as if we are seeing the inner-workings of his mind in real time, no filter. Which means that when he DOESN'T say something (whether it's his difficulty in calling out virulent racism or even being able to say a negative thing about Putin while being able to insult all of our allies) it shows that something is ticking behind those eyes but likely that "something" is "How can I, Donald J. Trump, get more support for ME, Donald J. Trump. Because I really like myself, Donald J. Trump".
     
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  20. GondwanaLand

    GondwanaLand Newbie

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    Yep, he's had no problem directly going after Islamic extremism (to the point that he's essentially decided any refugees from Syria must be Islamic extremists), or saying that the refugees we agreed to take from Austrialia he "guaranteed" were bad people, or describing undocumented immigrants as criminals and rapists.

    But when it coems to White Supremacists, all of a sudden all of his "best words" evaporate and escape and turn into vague words blaming everyone. These white supremacists at this rally were chanting their support for him, so he won't say anything directly calling them out.
     
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