Trump -- once again -- fails to condemn the alt-right, white supremacists

[ThatRobGuy]

I couldn't care less about what Obama did. Trump needs to grow some, like he brags about all the time, and tell these white...and Neo=Nazis to shape up. He's called out others why not these creeps? As one poster put it very aptly, he has no problem talking smack about anyone, including federal judges, why not these guys.

They certainly see it as him being on their side.

I definitely acknowledged that he was a hypocrite in that regard...

However, considering that his words were "I condemn racial bigotry and violence", I'm not sure how their takeaway from that was "he's on our side".


If I were to say "I condemn all animal rights extremism" after Animal Liberation front blew up a medical research lab, would Animal Liberation Front assume "Oh, he didn't mention us specifically by name, he must like us".

 

[MyOwnSockPuppet]

On a non-American observation - on my assorted social media timelines it's notable that the same people who were brushing off the mealy-mouthed condemnation of "violence done by both sides" of the suppression of opposition in Venezuela by (UK Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn are the same people who are criticizing Trump's mealy-mouthed condemnation of "violence on many sides" in Charlottesville.

What is notable is how long it seemed to take before there was an influx of riot police on the scene. It doesn't exactly take clairvoyance to predict that there would probably be trouble. Why did they let it get so far out of hand? Again?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Correction: the white power ones happend to be the ONLY ones to escalate it to lethal violence. The "left wing extremists" perpetrated NO lethal violence.

Do you understand the nature of violence escalation?

Example:
Mike makes inappropriate comment
Joe tells him to shut up
Mike: You're a jerk
Joe: Oh yeah, you're an idiot
Mike spits in Joe's drink
Joe shoves Mike
Mike shoves Joe back
Joe Punches Mike
Mike kicks Joe
Joe starts whipping rocks at Mike
Mike pulls a gun and shoots Joe


In this situation, yes, Mike was the murderer, however, that doesn't somehow give Joe the moral high ground in the situation.

 

[GondwanaLand]

Do you understand the nature of violence escalation?

Example:
Mike makes inappropriate comment
Joe tells him to shut up
Mike: You're a jerk
Joe: Oh yeah, you're an idiot
Mike spits in Joe's drink
Joe shoves Mike
Mike shoves Joe back
Joe Punches Mike
Mike kicks Joe
Joe starts whipping rocks at Mike
Mike pulls a gun and shoots Joe


In this situation, yes, Mike was the murderer, however, that doesn't somehow give Joe the moral high ground in the situation.

Gotta love terrorist sympathizers/defenders and the logical pretzels they will twist into in order to do so.

 

[wing2000]

What is notable is how long it seemed to take before there was an influx of riot police on the scene. It doesn't exactly take clairvoyance to predict that there would probably be trouble. Why did they let it get so far out of hand? Again?

Lack of foresight, planning and resources.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

For the entertainment value:

Trump on his superior genetics & German blood. He'll never denounce Nazis / white supremacists #Charlottesville

 

[Rion]

Lack of foresight, planning and resources.

Once is a mistake, twice is a pattern, third time is a habit.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

If a controversial group is holding a rally, people have a right to show up and voice their displeasure with it. For example, the KKK occasionally holds rallies in Cleveland, and people show up to protest their rallies. It's completely legal to do so.

Not at the same site. It's quite common for police to keep counter-demonstrators many blocks away, particularly if they intend to disrupt the rally. In this case, the police dispersed the rally, in violation of a federal court order to honor the permit (grounds for a lawsuit against the city right there) and abandoned the surrounding streets to the mobs.

For the context of this discussion, I'm merely just discussing the fact that in terms of this conflict, there are no good guys and it's literally like asking "Hitler vs. Stalin...pick a side" ...and in this instance, I'm not using those names merely as hyperbole, you literally had one side with Nazi flags, and the other with Commie flags and there were going at it.

You had one side holding a lawful assembly for which they had a permit and the other side trying to break up the assembly. No doubt about that - Antifa's conduct at Berkeley shows what they are willing to do to shut up people who say things that they don't want heard. No doubt Trump remembers the same lovely people's attempts to disrupt his campaign rallies last year, which could explain his reaction - he's been on the receiving end of their thuggery too.

 

[MyOwnSockPuppet]

Lack of foresight, planning and resources.

If whoever is in charge lacks the foresight to predict the flamin' obvious to that degree how the... ...did they get the job? Are they related to whoever appoints them?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Gotta love terrorist sympathizers/defenders and the logical pretzels they will twist into in order to do so.

New Orleans Removes White Supremacist Monument; Several Confederate Monuments To Follow

Jefferson Davis Statue in New Orleans Is Removed

Please go back and read some of my other posts on the topic before you accuse me of being a confederate sympathizer...you're just making yourself look foolish.

...or for that matter, look at my posting signature.

When these confederate/redneck types P&M about confederate iconography getting removed, I'm always one of the first to put them in their place. Not to mention, if you read my posts on most thread on here, you'll see I actually side with the left more than the right... so let's not pretend like I'm walking around with swastika armband just because I refuse to endorse the left's narrative on this one particular thing.

 

[GondwanaLand]

New Orleans Removes White Supremacist Monument; Several Confederate Monuments To Follow

Jefferson Davis Statue in New Orleans Is Removed

Please go back and read some of my other posts on the topic before you accuse me of being a confederate sympathizer...you're just making yourself look foolish.

...or for that matter, look at my posting signature.

When these confederate/redneck types P&M about confederate iconography getting removed, I'm always one of the first to put them in their place. Not to mention, if you read my posts on most thread on here, you'll see I actually side with the left more than the right... so let's not pretend like I'm walking around with swastika armband just because I refuse to endorse the left's narrative on this one particular thing.

I didn't call you a confederate sympathizer. Maybe it is ou who should go back and read, as you appear to be the one making yourself look foolish.

 

[essentialsaltes]

GOP senators react to Trump’s Charlottesville comments: “Mr. President - we must call evil by its name.”

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I didn't call you a confederate sympathizer. Maybe it is ou who should go back and read, as you appear to be the one making yourself look foolish.

Your exact words...
Gotta love terrorist sympathizers/defenders and the logical pretzels they will twist into in order to do so.

Which you posted in reply to (quoting) one of my posts...

How else was I supposed to interpret that one? The "confederate/KKK" entity are the terrorists you're referring to in this scenario right?

It would appear you're going for the "imply then deny" routine here.

 

[GondwanaLand]

Your exact words...
Gotta love terrorist sympathizers/defenders and the logical pretzels they will twist into in order to do so.

Yes, nothing in there about being a confederate sympathizer.

Which you posted in reply to (quoting) one of my posts...

How else was I supposed to interpret that one? The "confederate/KKK" entity are the terrorists you're referring to in this scenario right?

It would appear you're going for the "imply then deny" routine here.

I was talking about the white supremacist neo-nazi who committed an act of terrorism. Hence why I said "terrorist", not "confederate". Duh. It would appear you just made up the confederate bit out of thin air.

 

[PeachyKeane]

So, the Astros are having a heckuva season, eh...?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I was talking about the white supremacist neo-nazi who committed an act of terrorism. Hence why I said "terrorist", not "confederate". Duh. It would appear you just made up the confederate bit out of thin air.

These were the guys you were referring to right?

...thought so...glad we cleared that up.


Now, back to your accusation.

sym·pa·thiz·er
ˈsimpəˌTHīzər/
noun

1. a person who agrees with or supports a sentiment or opinion.
   "a Nazi sympathizer"
   synonyms: supporter, backer, well-wisher, advocate, ally, partisan; More
   

Given what the definition of sympathizer is...please provide some details as to how anything I've said in this thread would classify me as someone who agrees with or supports a sentiment or opinion of the people who committed the acts?

 

[mark46]

I have a strange idea. Trump should have opposed the nazi rally the night before the rally and opposed the white supremacist gathering before it happened. Or not. If this kind of group isn't repugnant to him, as they are to a majority of Americans, then he should be very careful not to offend them. Duke thanked him as well as the organizers of the rally.

BTW, even Scarmucci knows just how badly Trump failed in his response.

 

[GondwanaLand]

These were the guys you were referring to right?

View attachment 204814

View attachment 204815


...thought so...glad we cleared that up.


Now, back to your accusation.

sym·pa·thiz·er
ˈsimpəˌTHīzər/
noun

1. a person who agrees with or supports a sentiment or opinion.
   "a Nazi sympathizer"
   synonyms: supporter, backer, well-wisher, advocate, ally, partisan; More

Given what the definition of sympathizer is...please provide some details as to how anything I've said in this thread would classify me as someone who agrees with or supports a sentiment or opinion of the people who committed the acts?

This is the guy I was referring to, holding the black shield with his fellow Neo-Nazi white supremacists of Vanguard America, whose motto is "Blood and Soil".

 

[ThatRobGuy]

This is the guy I was referring to, holding the black shield with his fellow Neo-Nazi white supremacists of Vanguard America, whose motto is "Blood and Soil".

Okay...so explain to me how I'm a sympathizer for him/them? That was the implication that was made about me (based on your post) and I'd like to hear your reasoning behind that implication.

 

[Obliquinaut]

I don't know that "being a response to someone else who acted inappropriately first" is a validation of their actions.

So basically, the white hate extremists had a rally, the left wing extremists showed up as a response to it, both parts threw barbs and escalated it, and the white power ones happened to be first to escalate it to lethal violence. I still don't view that as making Antifa the "good guys".

Two things make them less bad than the White Supremacists:

1) The White supremacists held a rally making them the ones who brought their hate-speech to the community. The Antifa groups responded (ie they were not the aggressors)

2) The Antifa groups hate the fascists, the fascists hate anyone who isn't white. Antifa does not exist solely to spread hatred and racism around. That is precisely what White Supremacists groups do.

Like I mentioned before, I view it as a "Hitler v. Stalin" sort of scenario on a much smaller scale (Nazis v. Commies) Publicly singling out only one of them for the blame comes across as a tacit approval of the other side.[/QUOTE]

If an only if Stalin were not murdering a scale that Hitler could only dream of.

In this case, yes, the Antifa were not peaceful nice people. BUT, again, the aggressors (the people actively spreading hatred and acting without it being in response to any incitement) were the White Supremacists/Neo-Nazis/Alt-Right.

The fact that the White Supremacists never actually expect the left to stand up to them and, when they do they are among the first to whine about being hurt.

I'm not saying the Antifa were 100% in the right, but the White Supremacists were 100% PERFECTLY IN THE WRONG. Ergo the Antifa is less evil than the White Supremacists.

Moral equivalence is fine unless there isn't a sound basis for pure equavalence.

 

[Obliquinaut]

They are both collectivist groups, so they both stand for hatred. Have you ever read The Road to Serfdom?

No. Unless you think that the Allies in WWII were equal in hatred to the Nazis.

There are differing levels of "bad" in this conversation. The antifa were responding to the worse evil (Neo-Nazis) who came, unbidden, to Charlotte to spread their hate and racism.