Trump attacks McChrystal after retired general called Trump immoral

redleghunter

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Yep. Take a look...(green is US unemployment)
Can't you see the dramatic change in the curve after Trump was president?

Neither can I.


cView attachment 248280
Which line shows the number of people who dropped out of the labor force?

The recent jobs news is remarkable due to people re-emerging in the labor force.
 
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EpiscipalMe

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The Barbarian

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Which line shows the number of people who dropped out of the labor force?

At 39.8%, the labor force participation rate for those 55 years of age and over is the lowest it's been since April 2009 (chart 1).

Millions of "baby boomers" — a generation typically defined as those born during the post-war baby boom that took place between 1946 and 1964 — have retired from the workforce over the past six years.

This is putting massive downward pressure on the total labor force participation rate, which currently stands at 63.0% (chart 2).
530ab575eab8ea5564e23232-750-546.jpg
 
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redleghunter

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At 39.8%, the labor force participation rate for those 55 years of age and over is the lowest it's been since April 2009 (chart 1).

Millions of "baby boomers" — a generation typically defined as those born during the post-war baby boom that took place between 1946 and 1964 — have retired from the workforce over the past six years.

This is putting massive downward pressure on the total labor force participation rate, which currently stands at 63.0% (chart 2).
View attachment 248336
That is to be expected for that generation.
 
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redleghunter

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Labor force participation rate has not changed much in years.

Bureau of Labor Statistics Data
There was an uptick in the latest report.

In another positive sign, the labor force participation rate increased two-tenths of a point to 63.1 percent, the highest it's been since Trump took office.

In December, the nation’s civilian noninstitutionalized population, consisting of all people age 16 or older who were not in the military or an institution, reached 258,888,000. Of those, 163,240,000 participated in the labor force by either holding a job or actively seeking one.
156,945,000: 2018 Ends With Record Employment; Participation Rate Hits Trump-Era High
 
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EpiscipalMe

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There was an uptick in the latest report.

In another positive sign, the labor force participation rate increased two-tenths of a point to 63.1 percent, the highest it's been since Trump took office.

In December, the nation’s civilian noninstitutionalized population, consisting of all people age 16 or older who were not in the military or an institution, reached 258,888,000. Of those, 163,240,000 participated in the labor force by either holding a job or actively seeking one.
156,945,000: 2018 Ends With Record Employment; Participation Rate Hits Trump-Era High

You are right - it went up 0.2%. Not much of a change. Too early to say if it is a trend. Look at the data - my statement still stands true - there has not been much change in years. It was 63.1 in Sept 2017 and then went down again.
 
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The Barbarian

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So far, Trump hasn't really done much to stop the economic expansion that began in 2009. But the first year or so of a president's administration is really the doing of the previous president. Let's see how he does on his own, now that Trump's policies are taking hold.

Dow Jones - 10 Year Daily Chart

Not much difference until October, when the market started to decline. Too early to say whether it's a mere blip or a significant change.
 
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tulc

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Well, you're entitled to you opinion, of course. Personally, I don't think anyone who gets into high political office these days isn't a thug. Bush and Obama may have presented a smoother veneer than Trump does, but they were/are just as thuggish as he is.
Really? Can you give 5 examples of both President Obama and President Bush behaving the same way as President Trump? :scratch:



Well, I have American friends who felt not at all represented by Obama. In fact, they despised him more fiercely than any President they have ever lived under.
ahhh! That would explain why President Obama has been the most "Admired man of the year" for the 11th year in a row?
Barack Obama Has Been America's Most Admired Man For Trump's Whole Presidency



Trump's only concern, really, is himself. In this he's no different than Obama or Bush; he just isn't as subtle as most politicians are about his self-interest.
Does that explain him having 3 wives (all of which he cheated on) his paying off various inappropriate content stars and mistresses? :scratch:



Nah. Trump's inability to get things done is more a testament to the sour grapes of the Democrats (snip)
Let me stop you right there: his inability to get anything done is because he thinks he's the CEO of the USA, not the President of the United States. He's clearly out of his depth and has no ability to adapt to what it takes to BE a President. That's fine, he had his chance in the first two years and he couldn't get anything done, but these next two years? I suspect President Trump (and his base) are going to look back on them with a certain amount of nostalgia, thinking of them as "the good old days.". :)
tulc(is already having a lot of fun and it's only the 5th day of the year) :oldthumbsup:
 
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The Barbarian

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Well, you're entitled to you opinion, of course. Personally, I don't think anyone who gets into high political office these days isn't a thug. Bush and Obama may have presented a smoother veneer than Trump does, but they were/are just as thuggish as he is.

The American people disagree with you.
Obama has a 57.2 approval rate.
RealClearPolitics - Election Other - President Obama Job Approval

Trump currently has a 42.5 approval rate.
RealClearPolitics - Election Other - President Trump Job Approval

Well, I have American friends who felt not at all represented by Obama. In fact, they despised him more fiercely than any President they have ever lived under.

Everyone knew that the election of the first black president was going go make the racists burst up out of the sewers. No surprise that some hate him. However, as you see, most Americans admire him.

Obama has been America's most admired man for 11 years, now.
Barack Obama most admired man for 11th straight year: Gallup

Nah. Trump's inability to get things done is more a testament to the sour grapes of the Democrats as to anything directly related to Trump.

Trump boasted about his deal-making expertise. He got very little done, even though he controlled both houses of Congress. He couldn't pour water out of a boot if it had instructions on the sole.
 
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miamited

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You are right - it went up 0.2%. Not much of a change. Too early to say if it is a trend. Look at the data - my statement still stands true - there has not been much change in years. It was 63.1 in Sept 2017 and then went down again.

Hi EM,

Of course, the highest it's been since Trump took office isn't a particularly yuge data set.

God bless,
In Christ, ted
 
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miamited

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Hi aiki,

If I may. You responded to a previous post, thusly:
Well, I have American friends who felt not at all represented by Obama. In fact, they despised him more fiercely than any President they have ever lived under.

I touched on this before and I think this is an example to explain exactly what I was talking about. In a reasonably democratic form of governance with the freedom of speech, there are always going to be those who think things could be done better pitted against others who think that things are rolling along pretty well. President Trump has a 40% approval rating and so, in the U.S., that's going to mean that some 150 million people are in agreement with him. So, it's not surprising to hear someone make the claim, "Well, I have friends who see things the same as I do". Usually such agreement on life issues is one of the things that enjoin friends.

You know, I'm sure you've heard the guy at the KKK meeting talk about how all his friends see racism the same as he does. Or the girl at the bar who is drunk telling those who are trying to settle her down, "Look, all my friends think I'm doing just fine, thank you very much". Then there's the classic, "I have friends that are black", to try and persuade others that they aren't racist.

So, let it be understood that I'm absolutely positive that you do have friends who felt that President Obama didn't do a good job as president. As was pointed out, President Obama carried a bit better than 50% approval throughout most of his tenures. So that means that just under half of Americans may not have approved of the way he handled things and I'm sure they were all your friends.

However, polling data shows that while there were a lot of your friends that didn't approve of President Obama's administration, there are even a lot more who don't approve of President Trump's administration. So, let's just go with those, like your friends who didn't approve, and we still have more people who don't approve of President Trump's administration over President Obama's.

I'm just curious, are you some mega friend maker? Could you give us some idea of exactly how many of your friends told you that they despised President Obama more than any president that they'd ever lived under. That seems a pretty specific comment and am really interested, if you could, offer to count up on your fingers and toes and maybe a small calculator exactly how many of your American friends really said that to you.

You actually speak a lot like President Trump. He made the comment the other day that he's heard from many of the out of work government employees and that he believes that they are all for him withholding their pay until he gets this problem resolved. I'm actually trying to come up with how and where it might have worked out that President Trump was talking to 'a lot' of the people that he's put out of work. I mean, let's face it, the U.S. government isn't exactly like some small bread bakery where the boss goes in every morning and talks to a lot of the rank and file employees as they bake the bread and slice it and wrap it up to go out on the trucks in the morning. Experience has shown that President Trump just makes up a lot of these accounts of many of his friends and many people he talks to that tell him he's on the right path to success. Again, it's a part of his 'showman' nature to build himself up to give the impression to others that he has a lot of support. However, the polls are usually pretty accurate in gauging the general feelings of the populace. Of course, there's also the 'fact' that when one says they've talked to 'many', that's always subjective. It could be that President Trump has spoken to all of his cabinet heads and they've all looked him in the eye and shook their head and told the President what he wants to hear. Then they walk out of the room and swipe their brow and let out a big sigh of relief wondering if he bought it or not so that they get to keep their job. A room full of cabinet members would certainly be 'many' people.

Anyway, I look forward to any answers to my questions you might feel inclined to respond to.

God bless,
In Christ, ted
 
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Hi again aiki,

Just to give some examples:

In your own nation there are what are referred to as 'hot potato' issues. One of them is actually immigration. From the Chronicle Herald we read:

So if somebody actually was calling out for an anti-immigration hero — which they aren’t, but if they were — Bernier would be their white knight. He’ll say what the big-C Conservatives won’t: there are too many foreigners coming across the border and it’s time to stop them.

Apparently there is a bit of a battle going on in Canada where there are conservatives who don't want immigration but aren't willing to say so. But a small band of folks who follow Maxime Bernier, who also probably have lots of friends, want something done about it. It obviously hasn't gotten to be as hot an issue as it is here in the U.S., but it may. There are folks on both sides of the issue and those on both sides tend to have 'friends' who support their position.

Here's actually an article in a Canadian resource that is offering up points on how best politicians might handle polarizing 'hot potato' issues: http://policyoptions.irpp.org/magazines/october-2017/handling-public-policy-hot-potatoes/

So, understand that in Canada there are the same political problems with everyone not being in agreement on how to handle important issues and, trust me or not, those on each side have 'friends' who agree with them. But 'friends' that agree with someone doesn't a majority make. Nor does 'friends' that agree with someone necessarily make a particular position right or the 'more better' way to handle things. As I stated in my previous post, I'm absolutely certain that if you walk into a KKK meeting and ask who all is in agreement with raping and murdering black people and those of other races to rid the earth of their scourge, that you'll have hands flying up all over the room and you'll hear shouts that that's what they'd want to do and all their 'friends' also. Is that then what we should do because they and their friends want to do that?

Let's look at Great Britain. A big issue over there that has caused a great furor is Brexit. Whether or not Great Britain should create some sort of economic divide between its citizens and governance from the larger group of the EU? There are people on both sides of the issue and, trust me or not, they all have 'friends' that agree with them.

For me, I'm more interested in trying to find out the 'facts' concerning what makes one position better than the other. Not how many 'friends' are in agreement with someone's position. For me, the first fact that attracts my attention is that the construction of this wall, which did begin as some huge concrete blunderbuss of a wall, will cost billions upon billions of dollars. Next is the fact that such a wall will definitely have some consequences regarding the natural ecosystem. That it will have a deleterious effect on many of the animals that call that area home. The fact that if we later decide that it wasn't such a good idea, tearing it back out will be much more expensive than just removing some sort of fencing. Next is the fact that seems to be borne out by those who study such things that quite a lot of our illegal immigration problem is not from people just running across the vast empty stretch of land that comprises most of that border. As we see with the caravan, we don't have thousands upon thousands of people just running across our border. We have thousands upon thousands of people waiting to be processed through a legal checkpoint. No wall is going to stop that. Changes in how we legally accept and allow people to come into our country would be the way to stop that. Such changes as that can be handled with the swipe of a pen, IF, the body of people that make our laws determines that it really is a yuge problem.

Here's a real live video of the San Ysidro border checkpoint. It is the busiest checkpoint in the world and, as the report alleges, immigrants here are allowed into the country without running through tall weeds or grass out in the desert. Illegal narcotics come through practically by the train car load. Amazingly, as the report points out, all of these checkpoints are surrounded by nearly impenetrable barriers. For me, that's a fact that has a lot of bearing on whether or not this yuge expensive concrete wall is really going to be particularly effective at what President Trump is promising us it will do.

I also believe that if we really want to stop border jumping by walking across the border in some remote area, that we can affect that kind of change through technology that is much less intrusive and expensive and get pretty much the same bang for our buck. Drone technology and motion sensor technology with human interdiction called for on demand as these technologies pinpoint people actually crossing the border, I believe, would be much more effective. I am sorry to say that I really haven't polled any of my friends to see if they agree with me, so I'm not sure that I can attest that I have friends that agree with me. However, I believe these are facts that need to be considered in our glee to create yuge barriers that may not be the most effective way to deal with the problem.

God bless,
In Christ, ted
 
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miamited

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You really have to wonder how much of the economic expansion since 2009 has been from the redefinition of full time work by Obamacare? Which lowered the hours worked threshold to 30 instead of what had been the standard of 35 hours.

Hi gigimo,

Fair question, but...

I think the threshold contained in the ACA to determine who are 'full time' employees in order that a company might have to provide some plan of healthcare coverage for them, isn't the same measuring rod that is used when we speak of whether or not, for unemployment purposes, someone is employed 'full time'. As I say, that's a fair question and one that you might, if you're seriously interested in whether or not the subject of your question is pertinent, look into.

Is full time employment, as defined by the Bureau of Labor Statistics in determining national employment figures, defined the same as full time employment that is used in the ACA to determine whether or not a company has to offer someone some sort of healthcare insurance plan?

Let us know what you find out.

God bless,
In Christ, ted
 
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You really have to wonder how much of the economic expansion since 2009 has been from the redefinition of full time work by Obamacare? Which lowered the hours worked threshold to 30 instead of what had been the standard of 35 hours.

Hi again gigimo,

You're question got me thinking about it and this is what I found on the BLS (Bureau of Labor Statistics) website to define who is an employed person for purposes of determining the employment/unemployment statistics:

Employed persons consist of: persons who did any work for pay or profit during the survey reference week; persons who did at least 15 hours of unpaid work in a family-operated enterprise; and persons who were temporarily absent from their regular jobs because of illness, vacation, bad weather, industrial dispute, or various personal reasons.

So, according to this definition there is no set amount of 'worked' hours that must be met to count someone as employed.

God bless,
In Christ, ted
 
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The Barbarian

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You really have to wonder how much of the economic expansion since 2009 has been from the redefinition of full time work by Obamacare?

Actually, Bush, Obama, and Trump administrations all use the same measure. Apples to apples. So far, Trump's policies have only slightly dampened the economic expansion of the last 10 years. Let's hope it doesn't change as those policies start to have effects.

I'll mark this, and let you know how he's doing in a few months.
 
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Hi gigimo,

Fair question, but...

I think the threshold contained in the ACA to determine who are 'full time' employees in order that a company might have to provide some plan of healthcare coverage for them, isn't the same measuring rod that is used when we speak of whether or not, for unemployment purposes, someone is employed 'full time'. As I say, that's a fair question and one that you might, if you're seriously interested in whether or not the subject of your question is pertinent, look into.

Is full time employment, as defined by the Bureau of Labor Statistics in determining national employment figures, defined the same as full time employment that is used in the ACA to determine whether or not a company has to offer someone some sort of healthcare insurance plan?

Let us know what you find out.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

My point is since most employment/unemployment numbers are loose estimates you have to wonder how many of those numbers are people who have to work 2 jobs because they can't/couldn't find full time employment because of Obamacare?? Since quite a few people lost their full time employment because of that silly legislation and are having to work 2 jobs that is probably throwing off the total number of people employed figures for the last ten years.
 
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The Barbarian

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My point is since most employment/unemployment numbers are loose estimates you have to wonder how many of those numbers are people who have to work 2 jobs because they can't/couldn't find full time employment because of Obamacare??

This has been a popular Republican talking point, but it’s inaccurate. As we wrote on the day the report was released, the CBO said more than 2 million people will decide not to work, or will decide to work less, due to the law – not that they will “lose their jobs.”


The report estimated a reduction in full-time-equivalent employment of about 2.3 million by 2021. But the drop is “almost entirely” due to a reduction in “the amount of labor that workers choose to supply,” CBO said (see pages 117-127).


The report specifically noted that the reduction in the workforce is not due to “an increase in unemployment (that is, more workers seeking but not finding jobs) or underemployment (such as part-time workers who would prefer to work more hours per week).” The law will give some Americans the ability to voluntarily leave their jobs or cut back their hours without fear of losing health insurance.


When a number of Republicans claimed that the new CBO report confirmed that the health care law would “kill” more than 2 million jobs, fact-checkers were quick to point out the inaccuracy. (See AP, The Washington Post Fact Checker, PolitiFact, and of course, our report). Still, the Republican talking point endured.


In a congressional budget hearing the day after the report was issued, CBO Director Douglas Elmendorf explained why claims just like the one aired the following day in the Tillis ad would be wrong.

'Lost Jobs' from Obamacare - FactCheck.org

But since Obama and Trump are under the same rules, it's apples to apples. So your excuse won't work.

I'm thinking that a lot of Trump supporters are starting to realize where Trump's policies have us going, and are trying out excuses that it's not really Trump's fault.
 
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My point is since most employment/unemployment numbers are loose estimates you have to wonder how many of those numbers are people who have to work 2 jobs because they can't/couldn't find full time employment because of Obamacare?? Since quite a few people lost their full time employment because of that silly legislation and are having to work 2 jobs that is probably throwing off the total number of people employed figures for the last ten years.

Hi gigimo,

First off, it's not 'obamacare', it's the ACA. It was a regular, debated piece of legislation that was passed by a regular and official vote of both the House and the Senate. No one had to call for a change in the rules of voting in order to get it passed. It was fairly debated and voted on and passed and it was a bill called the ACA. It wasn't President Obama's choice of healthcare as I'm sure there would have been other things included if it was his personal choice. Look the confederate lost and those who supported the confederacy need to get over that. The ACA was a fairly debated bill that was passed and those who thought it was a bad bill need to get over it.

If a majority of the country thinks that it's a bad bill then new legislation can be passed to change it and that new bill can also be fairly debated and passed. As it is, President Trump was so bothered that he couldn't drum up enough support to defeat the existing ACA, even though his party had control of both the house and the senate, that he thought that congress should change the rules in order to get his, let's call it 'Trumpcare' passed. Unfortunately he wasn't able to get 'Trumpcare' passed by the normal and regular procedure of passing legislation and so even trying to call for changing the rules of legislative voting couldn't get it passed. Get over it.

Polling has shown that a majority of Americans do prefer, so far, the present ACA than anything that has been offered to replace it. You just don't happen to be, apparently, a part of that majority. Get over it!!!!!!!

What? Did people only start working 2 jobs when the ACA was passed? I don't think so. At least make a valid argument for your position and stop with just labeling things and then saying that because it has a label that you don't like that it must be bad legislation. The ACA provided valuable and affordable health insurance for people who had previously not been able to get insurance because of the rules under which private health insurance operated. The ACA changed that and made insurance available to all. There was also a clause in the bill the made it mandatory that everyone have insurance or pay a tax fine. That part was repealed. Get over it!!

Yes, the ACA meant that we'd all likely pay a slightly, (I'm sure you're smacking your forehead at the word 'slightly') higher cost so that everyone could be covered. That's what insurance is!!!! Some historians say that the very first use of insurance was to protect shippers. That everyone had to pay a price for shipping insurance. Some shippers may not have had any losses but they still had to pay into the pool. By everyone contributing to the pool, no single shipper was put out of business when pirates stole their booty. So understand, that the very term insurance means that everyone pays some so that no one has to pay a lot.

God bless,
In Christ, ted
 
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Some historians say that the very first use of insurance was to protect shippers.

Yep Lloyd's started as a table in a London coffeehouse, with wealthy men promising to make a shipper good if his ship went down, for a fee. They wrote their names under the description of the vessel, contents and destination, promising to make good the cargo and ship, if it was lost. Hence "underwriter."
 
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